Please pass on Montez Sweat

[Tiger Teeth]

We have more pressing needs at #11. No reason to take a chance on a guy with ANY question marks.

[*Synric*]

(04-21-2019, 11:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: He gets washed past the pocket because of bad bend multiple times. He shows the lack of an inside counter move often in doing so as he could easily beat the over setting Tackle.  He does do well chasing plays down from behind. Again, I got my notes at the office I’ll get them for you Tuesday.

Oh I agree he doesnt have great bend on the outside but he does consistently create pressure with strength length and speed. He is very good against the run and with his size length and speed hes a better option to move inside when Carl Lawson comes in on third down.

[CJD]

I will say that, from what I've seen, he doesn't look as dominant as his stats and workouts would indicate. But I'm also not a professional talent evaluator, so I'll defer to the Bengals if they decide to draft him.

I don't think DE is really a need for us though. I'd much rather a LB, DT, OT or QB than a DE.

[NATI BENGALS]

I agree. I don't want to take Sweat. I am a homer. I think Dunlap, Hubbard, Willis, Lawson, and free agent Kerry Wynn is a solid group at DE.

But Sweat has top 3-5 pick physical attributes as a DE. So if we do pull the trigger I won't be mad.

[*ochocincos*]

This reminds me of Maurice Hurst last year. The heart condition that got identified after the Combine ended up really causing him to drop. The Raiders ultimately took a chance on him in the 5th round. He had team-leading 4.0 sacks last year on 45% of total defensive snaps.

Not saying it's not concerning, but maybe it could cause Sweat to drop to 2nd round and the Bengals could take the chance at that point. Heart condition or not, he put up good production for multiple years in arguably the best conference in NCAA and then lit up the Combine. He's worth a selection.

[yang]

I posted this in the Lap thread. Anyone claiming Sweat isn't an exceptional talent and worthy of the pick has a right to their opinion, but I have yet to see an expert concur. From Bruglar's just released Draft Guide.

Dane Bruglar's Draft guide. 7th overall, 3rd best Edge guy behind Bosa and Josh Allen.

3. MONTEZ SWEAT | Mississippi State 6056 | 260 lbs. | rSR. Stone Mountain, Ga. (Stephenson) 9/4/1996 (age 22.65) #9

BACKGROUND: A three-star tight end recruit out of high school, Shaquan Montez Sweat, who was raised by his grandparents, was a standout in football and basketball at Stephenson. Averaging 12.3 points and 8.1 rebounds as a senior, he also received college basketball offers. On the football field, Sweat was better known as a tight end who would occasionally rush the passer — he was considered a top-60 tight end recruit in the country. He initially committed to Vanderbilt before flipping to Michigan State (over Florida State) with the Spartans wanting to move him to defense full-time. Sweat played in two games in 2014 before taking a redshirt year. He was suspended most of 2015 for a violation of team rules and left the program the following spring (April 2016) for “personal reasons.” After one season at the JUCO level, Sweat was a highly sought-after recruit and committed to Mississippi State over LSU and Texas A&M. He accepted his invitation to the 2019 Senior Bowl.

YEAR (GP/GS) TKLS TFL SACK FF PD INT NOTES 2014: (2/0) 4 0.5 0.5 0 0 0 Michigan State; Redshirted 2015: (2/0) 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 Michigan State 2016: Copiah-Lincoln Community College 2017: (13/13) 48 15.5 10.5 0 0 0 Mississippi State; First Team All-SEC; Led SEC in sacks and tackles for loss 2018: (13/12) 53 14.0 11.5 1 0 0 Mississippi State; First Team All-American; First Team All-SEC Total: (30/25) 105 30.0 22.5 1 0 0

HT WT ARM HAND WING 40-YD 20-YD 10-YD VJ BJ SS 3C BP COMBINE 6056 260 35 3/4 10 1/2 84 3/4 4.41 2.57 1.54 36 10’05” 4.29 7.00 21 PRO DAY N/A (stood on Combine numbers; positional drills only)

STRENGTHS: NFL frame and length…light-footed out of his stance with long strides to quickly eat up grass…core flexibility to lean and maintain his balance…forceful long-arm and introduces various inside/outside moves to keep blockers guessing…improved run awareness and play identification…able to retrace and find the ball…efficient changing directions when tracking the run…comfortable on his feet, dropping in space and covering ground with his long strides…emotional player and not afraid to throw the first punch…effort sustains all four quarters…reached double-digit sacks in both of his seasons in the SEC.

WEAKNESSES: Lean-muscled and lacks ideal bulk on his limbs…questionable growth potential…stiff turning the corner and lacks bend at the top of his rush…needs to play stronger and develop bully tendencies to power through blocks…too often finds himself upfield past the quarterback…flashes pop, but initial hand work still in the development phase…plays tall and rigid once engaged…doesn’t have a great feel in coverage…mysteriously didn’t have any pass break ups in his career despite his length…background requires careful vetting after he spent the majority of his two-year tenure at Michigan State in the coach’s doghouse due to repeated issues …diagnosed with a heart condition at the Scouting Combine, which will require regular check-ups, though it is considered a “low-risk” condition.

SUMMARY: A two-year starter at Mississippi State, Sweat rushed from a two- and three-point stance as the field defensive end in the Bulldogs’ four-man front. Since the start of 2017, his 22 sacks are the second-most by any power-five FBS player during that span (Josh Allen), forming a dominant defensive line duo with Jeffery Simmons (they combined for 58.5 tackles for loss the last two seasons). Sweat wins with first step burst and humongous wingspan, although there is room for better efficiency in his pass rush sequence. Overall, Sweat has average play strength and some stiffness in his rush, but he maximizes his length, both his arms and strides, to consistently threaten blockers off the edge, projecting as an NFL starter in either a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme.

GRADE: 1st Round (#7 overall)

[Au165]

Too be fair Brugalar also had Solomon Thomas and Time Williams as two of his top 5 pass rushers in 2017...neither have panned out. It’s a crap shot just not a fan of how Sweat rushes.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

It's an enlarged heart......I'd be pretty concerned about that.

[*bfine32*]

The combine sends kids home from the workouts with a hangnail. The heart issue Sweat has was not something discovered at the combine; it was well known. Seems this is more like somebody that wants the kid or an agent of another Edge rusher in the draft "disclosing" something that was widely known.

[yang]

(04-22-2019, 12:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: Too be fair Brugalar also had Solomon Thomas and Time Williams as two of his top 5 pass rushers in 2017...neither have panned out. It’s a crap shot just not a fan of how Sweat rushes.

And we can say that about any draftnik ranking players that don’t pan out, but Bruglar wasn’t alone on Thomas. I get the criticism on the guy and have him lower in my board as well but I can live with the pick.

(Funny, watching the draft special on ESPN right now and Kiper and McShay have him going 8 to the Lions. )

I think the Bengals cleared the way to draft a linebacker, but there could be a lineman they have higher on the board on either side, mostly OT.

(Both linebackers just went with Bush going 10 to the Broncos. Ouch. )

Murray, Bosa, Williams, Allen, White, Oliver, Bush, Haskins, Hockenson Sweat, not in that order.

Be great if we can trade back here.

And they went J Taylor OT as well. Good pick. He could challenge to start right away, great depth, run mauler.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-21-2019, 09:22 PM)Synric Wrote: Montez Sweat wasnt just a combine phenomenon. He was the best edge defender against the run according to PFF and put up 22 sacks and 30 TFL in his two seasons in the SEC.

As for the heart condition your article says it best...

While I don't know what the heart condition is, they wouldn't clear him if it was something like hypertrophic cardiomyopathy which is associated with sudden death.  So getting medical clearance indicates he doesn't have a potentially life threatening heart condition, but it doesn't mean his heart condition won't affect him.  It's difficult to judge without knowing more information.

The part that worries me is what you quoted from his agent, "Because of privacy issues we are not allowed to comment specifically." 

That's a lie.  First, Sweat's agent isn't bound by the privacy provisions of HIPAA because they don't apply to him.  Two, even if HIPAA did apply to Sweat's agent he can authorize his agent to say anything to anyone at anytime about his medical history.  Obviously, his agent is involved in a misinformation campaign.  Why?

[SunsetBengal]

(04-23-2019, 10:44 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: While I don't know what the heart condition is, they wouldn't clear him if it was something like hypertrophic cardiomyopathy which is associated with sudden death.  So getting medical clearance indicates he doesn't have a potentially life threatening heart condition, but it doesn't mean his heart condition won't affect him.  It's difficult to judge without knowing more information.

The part that worries me is what you quoted from his agent, "Because of privacy issues we are not allowed to comment specifically." 

That's a lie.  First, Sweat's agent isn't bound by the privacy provisions of HIPAA because they don't apply to him.  Two, even if HIPAA did apply to Sweat's agent he can authorize his agent to say anything to anyone at anytime about his medical history.  Obviously, his agent is involved in a misinformation campaign.  Why?

Why?  Because of money, that's why.  Last year's #10 pick signed a deal worth $17.6M, and the #30 pick signed a deal worth $9.9M.  They likely feel that simply stating "non-life threatening heart condition" is safer to say than getting specific, and having people dig into all of the "what if's".

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-23-2019, 11:35 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why?  Because of money, that's why.  Last year's #10 pick signed a deal worth $17.6M, and the #30 pick signed a deal worth $9.9M.  They likely feel that simply stating "non-life threatening heart condition" is safer to say than getting specific, and having people dig into all of the "what if's".

I don't see it that way at all.

What the agent said will only affects Sweat's mock draft status among us uniformed fans.  At this point, every team knows the exact diagnosis and his prognosis. The lie the agent told won't affect his draft stock among the decision makers one bit.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-23-2019, 01:44 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don't see it that way at all.

What the agent said will only affects Sweat's mock draft status among us uniformed fans.  At this point, every team knows the exact diagnosis and his prognosis. The lie the agent told won't affect his draft stock among the decision makers one bit.

Good point, I guess I overlooked the fact that in order to perform at the combine, he would have had to give over full access to his medical records to the NFL.

[Whatever]

(04-23-2019, 01:44 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don't see it that way at all.

What the agent said will only affects Sweat's mock draft status among us uniformed fans.  At this point, every team knows the exact diagnosis and his prognosis. The lie the agent told won't affect his draft stock among the decision makers one bit.

My guess would be that it could affect potential endorsement deals. Companies may be reluctant to put their money on him if he has a career threatening condition.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-21-2019, 09:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Beware those combine phenoms.  He put up unreal numbers in the combine, and then had a heart condition discovered.  This team doesn't need another Tyler Eifert situation.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-draft-2019-de-montez-sweat-to-skip-event-amid-heart-concerns/ar-BBW9m8n?ocid=spartandhp

Considering he was cleared to work out at the combine with the known issue, I don't really think it's that big of a deal.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-23-2019, 01:51 PM)Whatever Wrote: My guess would be that it could affect potential endorsement deals. Companies may be reluctant to put their money on him if he has a career threatening condition.

He has been cleared to play so whatever it is, it's not career threatening.  In my opinion, "we can't get into specifics" does affect endorsement deals because would you want to do a deal with an agent that can't get into specifics?  Personally, I don't think a heart condition would affect a football player's ability to sell shoes, for example.  If anything, I would think a marketing department would turn that into an underdog succeeding against all odds type of campaign.  But, I understand your point.

[rjohnson32]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sweat's our first round pick. The FO loves players with outstanding measurables.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-23-2019, 10:47 PM)rjohnson32 Wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if Sweat's our first round pick. The FO loves players with outstanding measurables.

Bullshit, otherwise I'd have been the #1 pick in 1994..