Mike says Dalton should "re-establish himself" but FO needs to establish themselves

[depthchart]

"The Buck stops here" is a phrase that indicates exactly who is responsible.

Fans tend to see matchups as Dalton versus Big Ben or the Steeler O-line versus the Bengal D-line or soon to be AJ Green versus O'dell as the storylines.

If the Bengals defense falters in 2019 due to poor linebacker play then fingers may point at Malik or Pratt or Preston or Vigil as not stepping up or panning out. Maybe fire the linebacker coach to appease the fans and draw attention away by placing the Buck on that Coach.

Should 2019 not go well, the Cycle of fans picking out certain players & Coaches to blame will likely hit the repeat button.

Some may say; Dalton can't carry a team  -or- the young linebackers busted -or- Hart had to step up but didn't -or- Ross laid an egg -or the team had one too many injuries -or- this or that Coach needs to go -or- the D-line is still one DT away

A position Coach or two may get fired and Draft talk begins again with fans eyeing say a replacement for Ross, or that missing DT or one more Offensive tackle or the next Devin White or maybe even a 1st round QB that fans are certain can "carry a team" to replace Dalton.

The Buck has made it's rounds stopping at many players and a few Coaches but who really benefits from this ?

At the end of the day it isn't the Bengals players versus the Steeler players or Bengal players versus the players of 31 other teams.

It is the Vision of the Bengal Front Office & decision makers versus the Steeler Front Office or versus the rest of the Front Offices in the NFL.

They pick the players, hire the Coaches, decide that Preston/Malik/Vigil/Pratt make a good enough nucleus of linebackers to go into a season with.

The Front Office pencils in Hart as a starter or doubles down on Ross or expects Dalton to carry the team or retains a Coach seemingly forever or hires inexperienced Coaches or likes the linebackers they have.

The Patriot way found & developed Tom Brady and injuries are not constantly derailing the Patriot way because their way has a way of overcoming obstacles (like injuries, player departures) that always seem a constant ready excuse for the Bengal Front Office.

Front Offices have varying aptitude levels & skill levels of their own that set them apart from each other.

That cream rises to the Top.

Mike Brown recently said that Dalton needed to "re-establish himself" placing the Buck right in Dalton's lap but maybe instead of Dalton re-establishing himself the Bengal Front Office should establish themselves.

Every player chosen, Coach hired and game result is a reflection of the Vision the Bengal Front Office embarked upon.

Their PLAN versus the Plans of 31 other teams each and every season.

A survival of the fittest game of Chess (so to speak) where the players are just the hand picked Chess pieces.

Does the Bengal Front Office have the drive, Vision & aptitude level to "establish" themselves as winners is the real question.

[THE PISTONS]

The same front office that hasn't won a playoff game in 27+ years is still running the show.

The big question is: Can Taylor and Dalton win in spite of them? And it's not like a single playoff game is some remarkable achievement. We should be able to finally win one!

[*Nately120*]

Stuff like this is what drives people insane. Mike Brown can fail at his job for 27+ years because his daddy started the team and then he can point at all the players and tell them how they need to be held accountable.

As Mel Brooks said...It's good to be the king!

[depthchart]

(05-09-2019, 02:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The same front office that hasn't won a playoff game in 27+ years is still running the show.

The big question is: Can Taylor and Dalton win in spite of them? And it's not like a single playoff game is some remarkable achievement. We should be able to finally win one!

Could there be a shift in how the Front Office operates going forward ?

Though I have no doubt that Mike is still involved, I wonder if there has been some delegation to Duke/Katie that could offer some positive change going forward.

If so, would Duke/Katie be more open to allowing Zac to transform the Culture and certain philosophies for the better ?

If the door is cracked open for this to occur, will Zac be forceful enough with his convictions to help shape a better Vision for how to succeed ?

If Zac is truly an innovator/genius then he would surely see the flaws in the system and embrace the "New Dey" mindset in order to influence the changes he would see as vital to success. Push for change.

Maybe Mike backs off just enough to allow these changes going forward.

Otherwise, likely not a New Dey.

[Pat5775]

(05-09-2019, 02:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The same front office that hasn't won a playoff game in 27+ years is still running the show.

The big question is: Can Taylor and Dalton win in spite of them? And it's not like a single playoff game is some remarkable achievement. We should be able to finally win one!

The same team with that atrocious front office made the playoffs 7 times in 10 years. The front office helped assemble great rosters during that span. The team continuously lost those playoff/Primetime/steeler games on the field due to poor coaching.

It’s not all on the front office. The worst thing they’ve done over the past decade was keeping Marv and Paul Alexander employed for far too long

Taylor and Dalton can win in spite of them. It’s nearly happened several times with Marvin Lewis calling the shots. What needs to happen is better on-field coaching. Not playing scared. Playing to win and not playing not to lose. Holding players accountable. If this happens, we can win a playoff game or two (maybe even a super bowl sometime soon). Even with this pitiful front office.

[BenZoo2]

(05-09-2019, 02:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Stuff like this is what drives people insane. Mike Brown can fail at his job for 27+ years because his daddy started the team and then he can point at all the players and tell them how they need to be held accountable.

As Mel Brooks said...It's good to be the king!

Piss boy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[THE PISTONS]

(05-09-2019, 02:17 PM)depthchart Wrote: Could there be a shift in how the Front Office operates going forward ?

Though I have no doubt that Mike is still involved, I wonder if there has been some delegation to Duke/Katie that could offer some positive change going forward.

If so, would Duke/Katie be more open to allowing Zac to transform the Culture and certain philosophies for the better ?

If the door is cracked open for this to occur, will Zac be forceful enough with his convictions to help shape a better Vision for how to succeed ?

If Zac is truly an innovator/genius then he would surely see the flaws in the system and embrace the "New Dey" mindset in order to influence the changes he would see as vital to success. Push for change.

Maybe Mike backs off just enough to allow these changes going forward.

Otherwise, likely not a New Dey.

Would any other team in the NFL hire Katie as their GM?

I suspect that Tobin does have a decent bit of say. He's been here forever though too.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-09-2019, 03:44 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: The same team with that atrocious front office made the playoffs 7 times in 10 years. The front office helped assemble great rosters during that span. The team continuously lost those playoff/Primetime/steeler games on the field due to poor coaching.

It’s not all on the front office. The worst thing they’ve done over the past decade was keeping Marv and Paul Alexander employed for far too long

Taylor and Dalton can win in spite of them. It’s nearly happened several times with Marvin Lewis calling the shots. What needs to happen is better on-field coaching. Not playing scared. Playing to win and not playing not to lose. Holding players accountable. If this happens, we can win a playoff game or two (maybe even a super bowl sometime soon). Even with this pitiful front office.

We have been about the 16-18th best team over the past decade. That's much better than being in the mid-20's the decade before.

I'd still argue that they use antiquated free agency practices. IF we actually signed free agents, maybe we'd be better.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-09-2019, 02:17 PM)depthchart Wrote: Could there be a shift in how the Front Office operates going forward ?

Though I have no doubt that Mike is still involved, I wonder if there has been some delegation to Duke/Katie that could offer some positive change going forward.

If so, would Duke/Katie be more open to allowing Zac to transform the Culture and certain philosophies for the better ?

If the door is cracked open for this to occur, will Zac be forceful enough with his convictions to help shape a better Vision for how to succeed ?

If Zac is truly an innovator/genius then he would surely see the flaws in the system and embrace the "New Dey" mindset in order to influence the changes he would see as vital to success. Push for change.

Maybe Mike backs off just enough to allow these changes going forward.

Otherwise, likely not a New Dey.

Zac has been here since Feb. I've posted in other threads, but there is no way he's doing everything.

Who says Zach is a genius? People act like he's McVay. He was the Rams Assistant WR Coach for 1 year. Then the Rams QB coach for the next.

He was underwhelming as the U of Cincy OC. Underwhelming as the Dolphins interim OC. 

[Bengalitis]

Dalton is next to go if his performance is subpar, he wont have Marvin to blame any more. Specially if his stats arE lacking.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-09-2019, 04:49 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Dalton is next to go if his performance is subpar, he wont have Marvin to blame any more. Specially if his stats arE lacking.

There's plenty of scapegoats. Mike Brown. Injuries. Eifert being injured. Rookie coaches.

[depthchart]

(05-09-2019, 03:44 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Taylor and Dalton can win in spite of them. It’s nearly happened several times with Marvin Lewis calling the shots. What needs to happen is better on-field coaching. Not playing scared. Playing to win and not playing not to lose. Holding players accountable. If this happens, we can win a playoff game or two (maybe even a super bowl sometime soon). Even with this pitiful front office.

Doesn't this sort of get the Front Office off the hook (so to speak)

The Front Office hand picks Taylor & Dalton yet the burden to win falls on Taylor & Dalton to do so in spite of the "pitiful" Front Office.

The Front Office gave Marvin enough to "nearly" pull it off so the guy hand picked/retained forever by the Front Office becomes the responsible party for the outcome.

It is almost like the Front Office can always have players/coaches to point a finger at for failure; yet those same players/coaches were hired to be the main implementers of the Front Office PLAN, making the players/coaches KEY pieces of that same PLAN but not the Plan originators.

Who really failed if it does not work out ?

The ultimate creators of the total vision/plan -or- the Chess pieces chosen by that plan creator.

Sort of a which came first, the chicken or the egg type of thing.

[Sled21]

People act like the Front Office plays the games. There is plenty of talent on this team, and there always has been. Lack of production in the playoffs is on the coaches and the players. It's not the Front Office's fault the entire team crapped the bed against the Chargers any more than it's the front office's fault Jeremy Hill fumbled the ball against Pittsburgh. The front office puts together teams that can win 10-11 games a season, and they tank every year in game one of the playoffs? Yeah, that's on the coaches and the players.

[GodFather]

(05-09-2019, 02:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: As Mel Brooks said...It's good to be the king!

Pissboy Pissboy??

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 03:44 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: The same team with that atrocious front office made the playoffs 7 times in 10 years. The front office helped assemble great rosters during that span. The team continuously lost those playoff/Primetime/steeler games on the field due to poor coaching.

It’s not all on the front office. The worst thing they’ve done over the past decade was keeping Marv and Paul Alexander employed for far too long

Taylor and Dalton can win in spite of them. It’s nearly happened several times with Marvin Lewis calling the shots. What needs to happen is better on-field coaching. Not playing scared. Playing to win and not playing not to lose. Holding players accountable. If this happens, we can win a playoff game or two (maybe even a super bowl sometime soon). Even with this pitiful front office.

The team made the playoffs because of good coaching and despite the front office.

Show me how we had a "great roster".  List the Pro Bowl players.  List the All Pro players.  List players on the yearly NFL Top 100 list.  Compare them to the best teams in the league.  No matter what measure you use you can not show that we had an elite roster that was held back by coaching.  Instead you will see a roster in the 8th-12th range.  2015 is the only year we had the talent to make a Championship run, but we lost our starting QB.  In most of the playoff games Marvin lost the Bengals were the underdog.  In 2009 and 2011 we were ranked as one of the worst teams in the league talent wise, but still made the playoffs.

In fact most of the reason you list for Marvin being a bad coach are so vague and meaningless that you can not even define them.  For example you can not list a single game the Bengals lost because they played "not to lose" instead of "playing to win".  Same with "holding players accountable".  When Marvin held Ross accountable you criticized him for it.  And please tell me what game the Bengals lost by "playing scared".  


I agreed that Marvin had to go after the 2016 season, but it is absurd to claim that the front office was doing a great job and Marvin was holding them back.  

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 04:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: People act like the Front Office plays the games. There is plenty of talent on this team, and there always has been. Lack of production in the playoffs is on the coaches and the players. It's not the Front Office's fault the entire team crapped the bed against the Chargers any more than it's the front office's fault Jeremy Hill fumbled the ball against Pittsburgh. The front office puts together teams that can win 10-11 games a season, and they tank every year in game one of the playoffs? Yeah, that's on the coaches and the players.

The coaches develop the crap that the front office gives them.  Talent wise the '09 and '11 teams were near the bottom of the league.  It was only because of the coaching that we made the playoffs.

Kind of funny how the front office was by far the absolute worst in the league for over a decade, but stopped being a losing team as soon as Marvin arrived and developed into a consistent winner.  How do you explain that if coaching was the problem?

[WhodeyRay]

I think the front office just manages from a comfort standpoint as well as a stubbornness that their style is right and they are not changing. A team can not be successful consistantly by draft only unless they knock it out of the park 2-3 drafts in a row. You need to add some solid free agents as well to upgrade some week spots. You don't need the $100million guys just solid player to upgrade. Instead they elect to resign the week links. Now that our great draft class is getting older and we let some of them leave because you can't sign everyone and did not hit on the drafts after to replace them we are struggling. Free agency could have been used to help with this but stubbornness would not allow it. They need to use all the tools available to them.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 04:49 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Dalton is next to go if his performance is subpar, he wont have Marvin to blame any more. Specially if his stats arE lacking.

(05-09-2019, 04:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There's plenty of scapegoats. Mike Brown. Injuries. Eifert being injured. Rookie coaches.

Funny how when Dalton has success he deserves no credit, but when he does bad everything is his fault.  

How about instead of predetermining who is going to be to blame if we fail we actually watch the games and decide based on what happens on the field?

Crazy idea, right?  

[XenoMorph]

Why would anyone need to state the obvious?

[Whatever]

(05-09-2019, 05:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The coaches develop the crap that the front office gives them.  Talent wise the '09 and '11 teams were near the bottom of the league.  It was only because of the coaching that we made the playoffs.

Kind of funny how the front office was by far the absolute worst in the league for over a decade, but stopped being a losing team as soon as Marvin arrived and developed into a consistent winner.  How do you explain that if coaching was the problem?

The '09 and '11 teams were nowhere near the bottom of the league from a talent perspective.  

How in the world do you give Marvin all the credit for the turnaround when he was a defensive coach and the offense carried the team?  We didn't have a scoring defense in the top half of the league under Marvin until '09 for Pete's sake, when Marvin was on DC hire number 3.  How great of a coach is he when it took him 7 seasons to fix the defense?