Mike says Dalton should "re-establish himself" but FO needs to establish themselves

[depthchart]

(05-09-2019, 05:51 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Why would anyone need to state the obvious?

I find it interesting how Mike & the Brain Trust of the Organization can reset the narrative.

Mike publicly claims Dalton must "re-establish" himself.

If Dalton falters then Mike can pursue the Drafting of a rookie QB to fix the problem (so to speak)

The "New Dey" slogan is tied to Marvin leaving and Zac coming in which is a reset of the narrative.

Players/Coaches go thru the revolving door first as solutions chosen by Mike & the Brain Trust but some leave as the culprits.

Meanwhile, Mike & the Brain Trust get to tee the ball up again with much of the blame sticking to some of the very players/Coaches that the Brain trust chose to begin with.

[*jason*]

(05-09-2019, 05:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The team made the playoffs because of good coaching and despite the front office.

Show me how we had a "great roster".  List the Pro Bowl players.  List the All Pro players.  List players on the yearly NFL Top 100 list.  Compare them to the best teams in the league.  No matter what measure you use you can not show that we had an elite roster that was held back by coaching.  Instead you will see a roster in the 8th-12th range.  2015 is the only year we had the talent to make a Championship run, but we lost our starting QB.  In most of the playoff games Marvin lost the Bengals were the underdog.  In 2009 and 2011 we were ranked as one of the worst teams in the league talent wise, but still made the playoffs.

In fact most of the reason you list for Marvin being a bad coach are so vague and meaningless that you can not even define them.  For example you can not list a single game the Bengals lost because they played "not to lose" instead of "playing to win".  Same with "holding players accountable".  When Marvin held Ross accountable you criticized him for it.  And please tell me what game the Bengals lost by "playing scared".  


I agreed that Marvin had to go after the 2016 season, but it is absurd to claim that the front office was doing a great job and Marvin was holding them back.  

How did they have less talent in 2013 than they did in 2015?

If Marvin Lewis had to go after 2016, then he and the front office were both holding this team back... No?

I

[Whatever]

(05-09-2019, 06:55 PM)depthchart Wrote: I find it interesting how Mike & the Brain Trust of the Organization can reset the narrative.

Mike publicly claims Dalton must "re-establish" himself.

If Dalton falters then Mike can pursue the Drafting of a rookie QB to fix the problem (so to speak)

The "New Dey" slogan is tied to Marvin leaving and Zac coming in which is a reset of the narrative.

Players/Coaches go thru the revolving door first as solutions chosen by Mike & the Brain Trust but some leave as the culprits.

Meanwhile, Mike & the Brain Trust get to tee the ball up again with much of the blame sticking to some of the very players/Coaches that the Brain trust chose to begin with.

My old man has his own version of the Golden Rule that applies here.  He who has the gold makes the rules.

The Brown certainly has their misses and their faults.  At the end of the day, though, they don't go out there and suit up.  They aren't the ones out there folding up in primetime, the playoffs, and against the Steelers.  The narrative of the Bengals under Marvin has always been choking in big spots.

Does anybody think that if the Pats lost the SB that their fans would be saying that the FO is to blame because they knew they didn't have an outside threat at WR and went bargain bin shopping to try and fix the problem with Josh Gordon?  Every team has weak spots.  It's up to the coaches to emphasize their strong spots and camouflage their weaknesses.  

At the end of the day, Marvin had the talent necessary to make some playoff runs and they didn't do it.  They always crumbled under pressure.  Different players, different assistants, they always cracked.  They didn't choke because MB horribly mismanaged the team for a decade.  They choked because Marvin was a mediocre coach.

[SunsetBengal]

Props to the OP for putting the emphasis on winning where it belongs, with the Management of the organization.

I've said this many times, and I'll restate it one more time. Winning is an attitude that starts at the very top of the organization, and resonates throughout every single person affiliated with that organization.

[OSUfan]

Not sure why this would bother many fans as a vast majority of them have been pointing fingers at Dalton for several years. Not sure what the problem is with what he stated. I would say that he does, under the new regime, need to reestablish himself as the leader of the offense. I do not believe Mike stated anything out of line and I don't believe he was trying to take a shot at Dalton in saying it.

I think their are fingers that can be pointed all over but the bottom line is that everyone holds a hand in why they have not had post season success. Management, previous coaching, and players. So as well collectively going forward they all need to raise their level of execution.

[HarleyDog]

(05-09-2019, 07:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Props to the OP for putting the emphasis on winning where it belongs, with the Management of the organization.

I've said this many times, and I'll restate it one more time. Winning is an attitude that starts at the very top of the organization, and resonates throughout every single person affiliated with that organization.

MB has struggled with this. Let’s hope with all the changes, he has turned the page. Seems favorable, but we don’t know. Let’s hope this is really a “New Dey!” Seems legit.

[*bfine32*]

I don't see how an Andy fan could take a shot at Mike Brown. He's stuck by dude and never drafted "competition" to take his job. Maybe Zac talked him in to taking Finley in the 4th, but in 10 years MB has never challenged Andy.

[Whatever]

(05-09-2019, 10:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't see how an Andy fan could take a shot at Mike Brown. He's stuck by dude and never drafted "competition" to take his job. Maybe Zac talked him in to taking Finley in the 4th, but in 10 years MB has never challenged Andy.

In fairness, he never really challenged Palmer, either.  He doesn't want a QB controversy.  

His approach on this is pretty reasonable.  Andy has been good, but not great for the majority of his career.  When his backup has been forced to play, the team has faltered.  From a contract standpoint, he's underpaid for a QB of his caliber.  Marvin lost playoff games with 4 different QB's and was ultimately deemed the one responsible for the team's failures.  If Zac thinks he can win with Andy, give him a chance.  You have 2 years to decide to either move on or likely give him a huge pay raise.

[BengalChris]

(05-09-2019, 02:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The same front office that hasn't won a playoff game in 27+ years is still running the show.

The big question is: Can Taylor and Dalton win in spite of them? And it's not like a single playoff game is some remarkable achievement. We should be able to finally win one!

This front office has never won a playoff game. Ever!

[Bengalitis]

(05-09-2019, 05:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how when Dalton has success he deserves no credit, but when he does bad everything is his fault.  

How about instead of predetermining who is going to be to blame if we fail we actually watch the games and decide based on what happens on the field?

Crazy idea, right?  

Well, the old coaches are gone, most of the bad players are gone too, even Burfict and Hill are gone. So yeah, he's next in line, I don't think Zac and the new coaches and players will get most of the blame. The QB is pivotal in the team's direction, Dalton can get his 1st playoff win this year with 1. easy schedule 2. new coaches 3. motivated players because of the new coaches & teammates. If we fold, Dalton will likely be in my heavy criticism cross-airs.

[t3r3e3]

(05-09-2019, 04:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: People act like the Front Office plays the games. There is plenty of talent on this team, and there always has been. Lack of production in the playoffs is on the coaches and the players. It's not the Front Office's fault the entire team crapped the bed against the Chargers any more than it's the front office's fault Jeremy Hill fumbled the ball against Pittsburgh. The front office puts together teams that can win 10-11 games a season, and they tank every year in game one of the playoffs? Yeah, that's on the coaches and the players.

The single constant over the past 27 years is the FO. The vision, leadership, accountability, and desire to win (or lack thereof) start at the top. The best Mike Brown and Family have been able to do is losing in the Wild Card Round and finishing as the 11rh/12th best team in a given year.

[NATI BENGALS]

I was hoping to read "Mike says Dalton should grow some nuts".

I thought our last coach had multiple power struggles with ownership and ended up winning and getting his way and sticking around. We ended up with some super shitbag coaches and drafts that have totally derailed us.

Front office can only do so much. They are not on the field in between the white lines.

However. As far as attitude coming from the top down. My god. Its as bad as it can get. They dont come more low energy than Mike. There should be a rule. If you talk to the owner or hear him talk, immediately after you must go get a shot of adrenaline and listen to 15 minutes of your favorite hype music. No exceptions.

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2019, 01:42 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: If we fold, Dalton will likely be in my heavy criticism cross-airs.

And that is the problem with most of the Dalton haters around here.  They don't care how well he plays.  They just blame everything on him no matter what.

Here is what I will do if we fail this season.  I will look at the games and see who actually messed up, but I guess that is too difficult for some people.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 10:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't see how an Andy fan could take a shot at Mike Brown. He's stuck by dude and never drafted "competition" to take his job. Maybe Zac talked him in to taking Finley in the 4th, but in 10 years MB has never challenged Andy.

So you think the problem is that Andy is just lazy and does not work hard enough?

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 07:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: Does anybody think that if the Pats lost the SB that their fans would be saying that the FO is to blame because they knew they didn't have an outside threat at WR and went bargain bin shopping to try and fix the problem with Josh Gordon? 

Yes.  That is exactly what they would say.  Especially if the Patriots front office had failed every single year to fix the problems on the roster.

Do you seriously think no other fan base ever criticizes the front office?  I hear it all the time.

(05-09-2019, 07:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: At the end of the day, Marvin had the talent necessary to make some playoff runs and they didn't do it.  They always crumbled under pressure.  Different players, different assistants, they always cracked.  They didn't choke because MB horribly mismanaged the team for a decade.  They choked because Marvin was a mediocre coach.

Marvvin rarely had the talent he needed to win.  In most of his playoff losses the Bengals were underdogs based on lack of talent.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 07:05 PM)jason Wrote: How did they have less talent in 2013 than they did in 2015?

Hill was far superior to BJGE.

Our best player on defense, Geno, was out with injury in 2013.

Boling was out with injury in 2013 playoff game.

Kyle Cook was ruined with injury and never played again after 2013.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-10-2019, 01:04 AM)BengalChris Wrote: This front office has never won a playoff game. Ever!

Mind-boggling. Literally EVERY TEAM in the league has won one since we last won one and most teams have won 5+.

Some 3/4's of the league has played in Super Bowls too.

Our solace is that in 2005 and 2015 we may have hypothetically went to the SB if our QB's weren't hurt...

[OBX Bengal]

(05-10-2019, 09:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  That is exactly what they would say.  Especially if the Patriots front office had failed every single year to fix the problems on the roster.

Do you seriously think no other fan base ever criticizes the front office?  I hear it all the time.

About four or five years ago, I was driving home from Boston at Thanksgiving listening to sports talk radio.  I was shocked by the number of callers who criticized Bill Belichick.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-10-2019, 09:31 AM)OBX Bengal Wrote: About four or five years ago, I was driving home from Boston at Thanksgiving listening to sports talk radio.  I was shocked by the number of callers who criticized Bill Belichick.

It's like that in Pittsburgh too. Expectations.

Fans in those cities consider it a failure if they don't win a Super Bowl EVERY YEAR.

In Cincy? Make the playoffs and lose and it's a success. Make the playoffs 5 years in a row and lose them all and they're writing articles about how the rest of the league dreams to be you.

[Pat5775]

(05-09-2019, 07:05 PM)jason Wrote: How did they have less talent in 2013 than they did in 2015?

If Marvin Lewis had to go after 2016, then he and the front office were both holding this team back... No?

I

Don’t feed the Fred. He doesn’t believe half the stuff he argues against anyway. Just stirring the pot