One thing ZT is missing in copying the Rams model

[THE PISTONS]

So I've read multiple times how the Bengals are drafting to become the Rams. Sample - a blocking TE in Round 2. A physical team I keep hearing. And perhaps we are.

I also see Marvin being compared to Jeff Fisher and how Fisher left and McVay came in the Rams started winning. Like McVay came in, inherited the same exact Roster and started winning...which isn't accurate.

Well...the Rams also added some really good players in free agency.

Before McVay's 1st year they added: Whitworth and Sullivan on the offensive line. The line was a big issue for the Rams in Fishers tenure.
They added Kayvon Webster at QB. Robert Woods at WR. They traded for Watkins at WR.

IF you added 2 quality offensive lineman to the Bengals roster and a couple good WR's and a decent CB...WOW.

The Bengals added Hart, Miller, and Webb as external free agents. None of which are major upgrades. We did also retain some of our own as the Rams did.

Then, the next year they added Suh, Easley, and Ramik Wilson.

Draft: I'm sure I'll hear people counter the well the Bengals added Jonah Williams via the draft. And we did. But, the Rams draft too.

In 2017, they added Gerald Everett and Cooper Kupp and Josh Reynolds at WR.

So yes....every team adds talent through the draft. The difference seems to be free agency.

While I do think McVay is very smart, he also had a better roster to work with than Fisher did due to free agency additions.

[OSUfan]

Who says the Bengals are trying to become the Rams? I am sure they are looking to the Rams as a part of their offensive philosophy but I am pretty sure that Taylor is going to create his own offense that is taken from the influence of many coaches that he has worked with. I do not at all believe that he is basing his influence solely off his influence with the Rams.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2019, 07:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Draft: I'm sure I'll hear people counter the well the Bengals added Jonah Williams via the draft. And we did. But, the Rams draft too.  

Yeah, I am sure the Rams fan are really excited about their first round picks over the last three years.

What were their names again?

[hoosierbengal]

(05-12-2019, 08:53 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Who says the Bengals are trying to become the Rams? I am sure they are looking to the Rams as a part of their offensive philosophy but I am pretty sure that Taylor is going to create his own offense that is taken from the influence of many coaches that he has worked with. I do not at all believe that he is basing his influence solely off his influence with the Rams.

Thank you. Kinda has been driving me crazy how everyone assumes he is trying to recreate the Rams here in Cincinnati. That wasn’t his team anyway as he wasn’t the head coach. I would assume he is doing his own thing taking things from each place he has coached. Let’s stop with the Rams camparisons.

[Yojimbo]

There’s a lot more Dolphins and Aggies around here, than anything else.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2019, 07:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Before McVay's 1st year they added: Whitworth and Sullivan on the offensive line. The line was a big issue for the Rams in Fishers tenure.
They added Kayvon Webster at QB. Robert Woods at WR. They traded for Watkins at WR.

IF you added 2 quality offensive lineman to the Bengals roster and a couple good WR's and a decent CB...WOW.

But despite those WOW additions the season was still a complete failure.

Since McVey did not win a playoff game his first season we are guaranteed that Taylor will do just as well his first year here.

I agree that we did shit in free agency this year, but before the '17 season we traded for one of the highest paid OTs in the league and singed the league's leading tackler in free agency.  So It is not like the Bengals never spend big money to bring in talent.  Maybe they will do that again next year.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2019, 09:48 PM)hoosierbengal Wrote: Thank you. Kinda has been driving me crazy how everyone assumes he is trying to recreate the Rams here in Cincinnati. That wasn’t his team anyway as he wasn’t the head coach. I would assume he is doing his own thing taking things from each place he has coached. Let’s stop with the Rams camparisons.

Doesn't matter what his plan is no coach would be happy with the free agent's we signed this year.

But I am hoping he is looking long term and the Bengals and next year the Bengals will have an offseason more like 2018.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-12-2019, 09:48 PM)hoosierbengal Wrote: Thank you. Kinda has been driving me crazy how everyone assumes he is trying to recreate the Rams here in Cincinnati. That wasn’t his team anyway as he wasn’t the head coach. I would assume he is doing his own thing taking things from each place he has coached. Let’s stop with the Rams camparisons.

I hear ya, but we hired Taylor due the success of the Rams, so I was hoping he'd emulate them more than the 2015 Dolphins or the 2016 Bearcats.

[THE PISTONS]

My overall point is that people attribute the Rams turning things around to getting rid of Fisher and replacing him with McVay...like that was the only variable changed. The also brought in 4 REALLY GOOD players that upgraded positions of need in free agency/trades.

We have changed out Marvin in favor of Taylor...and didn't add those free agents to upgrade positions.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-12-2019, 10:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But despite those WOW additions the season was still a complete failure.

Since McVey did not win a playoff game his first season we are guaranteed that Taylor will do just as well his first year here.

I agree that we did shit in free agency this year, but before the '17 season we traded for one of the highest paid OTs in the league and singed the league's leading tackler in free agency.  So It is not like the Bengals never spend big money to bring in talent.  Maybe they will do that again next year.

This isn't complicated.

You take a 6-10 team and make them 11-5, that season was a success.
You don't win a playoff game for 4 years in a row, when you have a 10+ win team every year? That's bad. 

The expectations for a coach should always be to get better each season. If you were a losing team, you want to turn them into winners. If you start making the playoffs, you want to start winning those games. If you start winning those games, you want to win the Super Bowl. Marvin stagnated and that's why people wanted him out. McVay hasn't stagnated yet.

I agree on last year's off-season moves, but we were all surprised by it for a reason. We could've used another off-season like that this year. We had the space to do it. Especially if we would've cut Glenn. My fear is that we keep Jonah Williams at LT and eventually cut Glenn. That money would obviously not be going to good use then. They're already hinting at Jonah staying at LT, so I've got my eye on it.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-12-2019, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, I am sure the Rams fan are really excited about their first round picks over the last three years.

What were their names again?

Cupp had 869 yards receiving as a rookie.
Everett is a decent blocking TE that can catch.

Not a terrible draft haul. Who knows if our class this year will be equal to that?

But we know we didn't sign 4 good free agents that upgraded spots.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-12-2019, 08:53 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Who says the Bengals are trying to become the Rams? I am sure they are looking to the Rams as a part of their offensive philosophy but I am pretty sure that Taylor is going to create his own offense that is taken from the influence of many coaches that he has worked with. I do not at all believe that he is basing his influence solely off his influence with the Rams.

The influences of many coaches that he's worked with? Really McVay was the only one worth emulating.

Mike Sherman is probably the next best coach and he was 25-25 in 4 years at Texas A&M.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2019, 10:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This isn't complicated.

You take a 6-10 team and make them 11-5, that season was a success.

Yeah, not complicated at all.

Bengals make the playoffs and lose it is a failure.

Other teams make the playoffs and lose it is a success.

[*Synric*]

You don't win by copying. You win by innovation and sustainable drives with great pass rush on defense.

[*Synric*]

(05-12-2019, 10:39 PM)Synric Wrote: You don't win by copying. You win by innovation and sustainable drives with great pass rush on defense.

Wanna take that back you win in the trenches by running the ball to sustain drives while having good pass protection and stopping the run on defense while rushing the passer.

It's like Chess the rules are simple but the plan and exection have to be perfect with the ability to adapt on the fly.

[Starvin Marvin]

A couple points. I remember clearly Taylor saying during his introductory confrences or interviews that the offense was going to bean amalgam of a lot of coaches that both he and Callahan had worked for in the past. I tried to come up with a quick citation providing names but couldn't come up with an exact quote. A number of names of past coaches they'd worked for were mentioned though.

A second point is an obvious one, being that the Rams FO and Owner were committed to spending money in FA. Trying to buy a SB? Probably. We'll see how they manage to keep their cap money from going into cap hell. My $ .02

[Shake n Blake]

(05-12-2019, 10:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, not complicated at all.

Bengals make the playoffs and lose it is a failure.

Other teams make the playoffs and lose it is a success.

We stagnated. I think everyone gets that except you.

Honestly, you probably do get it. You just want to argue.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-12-2019, 11:19 PM)Starvin Marvin Wrote: A couple points. I remember clearly Taylor saying during his introductory confrences or interviews that the offense was going to bean amalgam of a lot of coaches that both he and Callahan had worked for in the past. I tried to come up with a quick citation providing names but couldn't come up with an exact quote. A number of names of past coaches they'd worked for were mentioned though.

A second point is an obvious one, being that the Rams FO and Owner were committed to spending money in FA. Trying to buy a SB? Probably. We'll see how they manage to keep their cap money from going into cap hell. My $ .02

I wish our team would suffer through "cap hell" for that reason. Instead our conservative spending seems to match our mediocre results. 

[THE PISTONS]

(05-12-2019, 11:19 PM)Starvin Marvin Wrote: A couple points. I remember clearly Taylor saying during his introductory confrences or interviews that the offense was going to bean amalgam of a lot of coaches that both he and Callahan had worked for in the past. I tried to come up with a quick citation providing names but couldn't come up with an exact quote. A number of names of past coaches they'd worked for were mentioned though.

A second point is an obvious one, being that the Rams FO and Owner were committed to spending money in FA. Trying to buy a SB? Probably. We'll see how they manage to keep their cap money from going into cap hell. My $ .02

That would sound great if he had experience under good coaches.

It's funny how the board always seems to vilify teams that spend money. Ohh...that team will end up in cap hell.

How has rolling over cap space worked for us?

[THE PISTONS]

(05-12-2019, 11:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We stagnated. I think everyone gets that except you.

Honestly, you probably do get it. You just want to argue.

Yep. It is simple. Teams should always be improving results wise.

Giving a HC who is 0-7 in the playoffs with the 7th loss being a historic meltdown 3 more cracks at winning is just crazy.