One thing ZT is missing in copying the Rams model

[BenZoo2]

(05-12-2019, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, I am sure the Rams fan are really excited about their first round picks over the last three years.

What were their names again?

Since part of those last 3 drafts included trading up for their franchise qb it’s not really applicable.

Since then they traded for cooks, former first round pick. Signed suh as a free agent, former first round pick. Signed whitworth, former second round pick.

Made it to the super bowl last year. I think most Bengals fans would be happy with that.




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[McC]

People seem to conveniently be forgetting that the value just wasn't there in free agency this year. Spending is one thing and over spending is another.

Also, the copying is more copying the focus, the attention to detail and accountability which are the actual things being brought here from the Rams.

And now, back to your faulty premise and bogus argument.

[Sled21]

We added the best tackle in the draft, and a huge guard. Our formula for winning is going to be very simple, Mixon and Bernard are going to run it down their throats, then when they are sucking for wind trying to stop the run, Green is going to go long on them.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2019, 11:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's funny how the board always seems to vilify teams that spend money. Ohh...that team will end up in cap hell.

Why would I vilify teams that spend money when we spend more money on players than most other teams?

What's REALLY funny is people who think an entire teams payroll is based on outside free agents.

[fredtoast]

(05-12-2019, 11:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We stagnated. I think everyone gets that except you.

Honestly, you probably do get it. You just want to argue.

The mental gymnastics you people go through amazes me.

If Zac makes the playoffs and loses this year you guys will be like "Uh, we can't tell if this is meaningless or not until we see what happens next year."  Because when you trash Marvin you always include that '05 playoff loss as a mark against him.

[grampahol]

Something kind of missing is when folks mention Whitworth being a 2nd round pick.. By the time he signed with LA nobody would have considered him a 2nd round pick. Round picks are really only real number the day they're drafted. Once they have a few seasons under their belts all that draft slot numbering goes out the window.
How many undrafted free agents who later go on to multiple pro-bowls are still thought of as undrafted or undraftable players years after their drafts? The opposite also holds true of say, first round busts like Cedric Ogbuihi, but heck, he was a first round player and still must be since he went to Jacksonville, eh? How many would now declare Ced as an undraftable player?  Nobody, right? 

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2019, 12:07 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Since part of those last 3 drafts included trading up for their franchise qb it’s not really applicable.  

Sure it is.

When you don't have first round picks you don't have as much to be excited about the draft.  Doesn't matter what you did with those picks, they are still gone.  

Pistons was trying to claim that the Rams acquired all of these players and still had as much draft value to be excited about as the Bengals.  That just is not correct.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 07:00 AM)McC Wrote: People seem to conveniently be forgetting that the value just wasn't there in free agency this year.  Spending is one thing and over spending is another.  

Also, the copying is more copying the focus, the attention to detail and accountability which are the actual things being brought here from the Rams.

And now, back to your faulty premise and bogus argument.

Where was the value in spending on guys like Hart, Miller, and Webb? It's not like we signed them for $2-3 million a year.

We arguably overpaid all 3 of them.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 10:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The mental gymnastics you people go through amazes me.

If Zac makes the playoffs and loses this year you guys will be like "Uh, we can't tell if this is meaningless or not until we see what happens next year."  Because when you trash Marvin you always include that '05 playoff loss as a mark against him.

IF we make the playoffs this year after 3 years of 6-7 wins...it's a good season PERIOD. If we keep making the playoffs and losing after that, then we're underachieving as you'd expect a team to improve. It's a pretty concept...you keep getting better.

[BenZoo2]

(05-13-2019, 10:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure it is.

When you don't have first round picks you don't have as much to be excited about the draft.  Doesn't matter what you did with those picks, they are still gone.  

Pistons was trying to claim that the Rams acquired all of these players and still had as much draft value to be excited about as the Bengals.  That just is not correct.

Where did he claim they had as much draft value to be excited about as the bengals?

Both teams drafted, they signed more outside free agents. That was the point he was making


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[fredtoast]

(05-13-2019, 10:23 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Where was the value in spending on guys like Hart, Miller, and Webb? It's not like we signed them for $2-3 million a year.

We arguably overpaid all 3 of them.

Weren't you just praising the Rams for overpaying for free agents that did not work out?

Just two year ago the Bengals got almost 900 yards from a WR they signed for $1 million.  So how about we ait and see how they perform before we judge them.

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2019, 10:27 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Where did he claim they had as much draft value to be excited about as the bengals?

When he laughed at the Bengals for being excited about their FIRST ROUND PICK, because the Rams had just as much reason to be excited about their draft.

I just think it is kind of funny that a poster goes to the trouble of adding a laughing emoji to mock Bengal fans when he is the one who does not know what he is talking about.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 10:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure it is.

When you don't have first round picks you don't have as much to be excited about the draft.  Doesn't matter what you did with those picks, they are still gone.  

Pistons was trying to claim that the Rams acquired all of these players and still had as much draft value to be excited about as the Bengals.  That just is not correct.

LOL. The Rams had an AWESOME DRAFT in McVay's 1st season:

Everett, Cupp, and Johnson were a decent haul in his 1st season as HC for having no 1st Round pick. 
-Cupp had 868 yards receiving as a rookie. 
-Everett graded out by PFF as the #5 TE this past season.
-John Johnson who they drafted in the 3rd Round graded out as the #7 Safety by PFF last year. 71 Tackles as a Rookie and 119 Tackles last season with 4 Int's. He's a future Pro Bowl Safety. Here is an article about how he is a dynamic cover safety: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-john-johnson-iii-has-evolved-into-a-dynamic-cover-safety-for-the-rams
-Josh Reynolds is a fast WR with potential.
-Samson Ebukam their 4th Round pick who is an OLB had 40 Tackles this past season and he has 5 sacks over 2 years.



I'd say that they did VERY WELL without a 1st Round pick!

Our 1st Round pick in 2017, Ross has 210 yards receiving TOTAL in 2 seasons.
I'd say we hit on Mixon and possibly Lawson IF he can stay healthy...which was his knock in college.

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2019, 10:25 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: IF we make the playoffs this year after 3 years of 6-7 wins...it's a good season PERIOD. If we keep making the playoffs and losing after that, then we're underachieving as you'd expect a team to improve. It's a pretty concept...you keep getting better.

So if Marvins first playoff loss was actually a success why do you keep criticizing him for going 0-7?  Shouldn't you be complaining about 0-6 instead?  Why use a success to criticize him?

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 10:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: When he laughed at the Bengals for being excited about their FIRST ROUND PICK, because the Rams had just as much reason to be excited about their draft.

I just think it is kind of funny that a poster goes to the trouble of adding a laughing emoji to mock Bengal fans when he is the one who does not know what he is talking about.

People like to act like just switching HC's will make our team way better and often cite the Rams replacing Fisher with McVay…as if the coaching change was all that changed...

The point is, the Rams added actual talent via free agency too. Add an all-pro LT and a 1200+ yard WR here in free agency and we'd be looking a lot better. Then, they added Suh the next year even though they had Donald.

And, without a 1st Round pick, they had a good draft.

[XsandOs]

(05-12-2019, 07:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So I've read multiple times how the Bengals are drafting to become the Rams. Sample - a blocking TE in Round 2. A physical team I keep hearing. And perhaps we are.

I also see Marvin being compared to Jeff Fisher and how Fisher left and McVay came in the Rams started winning. Like McVay came in, inherited the same exact Roster and started winning...which isn't accurate.

Well...the Rams also added some really good players in free agency.

Before McVay's 1st year they added: Whitworth and Sullivan on the offensive line. The line was a big issue for the Rams in Fishers tenure.
They added Kayvon Webster at QB. Robert Woods at WR. They traded for Watkins at WR.

IF you added 2 quality offensive lineman to the Bengals roster and a couple good WR's and a decent CB...WOW.

The Bengals added Hart, Miller, and Webb as external free agents. None of which are major upgrades. We did also retain some of our own as the Rams did.

Then, the next year they added Suh, Easley, and Ramik Wilson.

Draft: I'm sure I'll hear people counter the well the Bengals added Jonah Williams via the draft. And we did. But, the Rams draft too.

In 2017, they added Gerald Everett and Cooper Kupp and Josh Reynolds at WR.

So yes....every team adds talent through the draft. The difference seems to be free agency.

While I do think McVay is very smart, he also had a better roster to work with than Fisher did due to free agency additions.

I hope Taylor doesn't copy Rams offense. By end of season, teams were adjusting well to their scheme.

I hope even if he keeps the concept, that the wrinkles are innovative.

In terms of FA, Bengals loaded up last year, because they felt 2018 was the deep playoff year.

But the fact that we kept the 2018 FAs, and we drafted OT and LB, I think we are set. Definitely more talent than 2018.

Could we use another cover backer and an edge rusher as insurance if Lawson needs time? Yes.

But Bengals are fiscally conservative and don't mortgage the future.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 10:48 AM)XsandOs Wrote: I hope Taylor doesn't copy Rams offense. By end of season, teams were adjusting well to their scheme.

I hope even if he keeps the concept, that the wrinkles are innovative.

In terms of FA, Bengals loaded up last year, because they felt 2018 was the deep playoff year.

But the fact that we kept the 2018 FAs, and we drafted OT and LB, I think we are set. Definitely more talent than 2018.

Could we use another cover backer and an edge rusher as insurance if Lawson needs time? Yes.

But Bengals are fiscally conservative and don't mortgage the future.

Was trading for Glenn and signing Preston Brown to a 1 year $5 million contract 'loading up'?

Brown was an above average to average LB with Buffalo who struggles in coverage.
Glenn was hurt for the previous 2 years. Before that, he was a REALLY GOOD Tackle.

I think adding 2 players like that is an average offseason for most teams. Here we think it's some massive haul.

How has not mortgaging the future worked out for us?

[PAjwPhilly]

(05-12-2019, 08:53 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Who says the Bengals are trying to become the Rams? I am sure they are looking to the Rams as a part of their offensive philosophy but I am pretty sure that Taylor is going to create his own offense that is taken from the influence of many coaches that he has worked with. I do not at all believe that he is basing his influence solely off his influence with the Rams.

(05-12-2019, 09:48 PM)hoosierbengal Wrote: Thank you. Kinda has been driving me crazy how everyone assumes he is trying to recreate the Rams here in Cincinnati. That wasn’t his team anyway as he wasn’t the head coach. I would assume he is doing his own thing taking things from each place he has coached. Let’s stop with the Rams camparisons.

Zac Taylor said we are going to use the Rams as the basis for our offense. No one is assuming, you need to watch his introductory press conference. https://www.bengals.com/video/zac-taylor-introduced-as-bengals-head-coach

Question about if our offense will be schematically like the Rams...

"Well it works, I think we can all agree. So it would be silly to not have that as basis of what we do on offense..." -Zac Taylor

[Socal Bengals fan]

(05-13-2019, 11:15 AM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: Zac Taylor said we are going to use the Rams as the basis for our offense. No one is assuming, you need to watch his introductory press conference. https://www.bengals.com/video/zac-taylor-introduced-as-bengals-head-coach

Question about if our offense will be schematically like the Rams...

"Well it works, I think we can all agree. So it would be silly to not have that as basis of what we do on offense..." -Zac Taylor

Burn

[Socal Bengals fan]

(05-13-2019, 10:52 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Was trading for Glenn and signing Preston Brown to a 1 year $5 million contract 'loading up'?

Brown was an above average to average LB with Buffalo who struggles in coverage.
Glenn was hurt for the previous 2 years. Before that, he was a REALLY GOOD Tackle.

I think adding 2 players like that is an average offseason for most teams. Here we think it's some massive haul.

How has not mortgaging the future worked out for us?

Well we won a playoff game when I was 10. Although I didn’t watch it I’m sure it was fun to see.