One thing ZT is missing in copying the Rams model

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 10:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So if Marvins first playoff loss was actually a success why do you keep criticizing him for going 0-7?  Shouldn't you be complaining about 0-6 instead?  Why use a success to criticize him?

He's 0-7 in the playoffs. Not 0-6.

The season was an improvement over the previous year. You know this.

Guess what on McVay? He didn't go 0-2. He won 2 the next year! So the Rams improved!

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2019, 11:31 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He's 0-7 in the playoffs. Not 0-6.

But the first one was a successful season.  So why use that to try and prove he is a bad coach?

You can't have it both ways.  You can't claim that McVay's '17 season was a success and Marvins '05 was a failure.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-13-2019, 11:22 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Well we won a playoff game when I was 10. Although I didn’t watch it I’m sure it was fun to see.

It was fun, but then we ruined Bo Jackson the next week in a loss.

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2019, 10:52 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think adding 2 players like that is an average offseason for most teams. 

And you are completely wrong.

League wide free agency is a zero net sum gain.  Every good player who signs with one team is a loss to another team.

So there is no way in hell adding the 8th highest paid OT and the leagues leading tackler without losing a single significant player could be just "average".

It goes back to the crazy idea people like you have that EVERY team improves in free agency.  That is because you only look at additions and act like no team ever loses any players.

[J24]

I would argue that this team really didn't need to make huge up grades on this roster outside of RT, RG( although Westerman is capable of starting Imo), and LB. I would say while FA was a dissapointment the draft wasn't. We got two day one starters in Williams and Pratt.

[PAjwPhilly]

(05-13-2019, 11:47 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I would argue that this team really didn't need to make huge up grades on this roster outside of RT, RG( although Westerman is capable of starting Imo), and LB.  I would say while FA was a dissapointment the draft wasn't. We got two day one starters in Williams and Pratt.

I think Pratt starts because we are weak at LB but I do not believe he would be a day 1 starter on a team with an adequate LB corps. He has a decent chance of getting washed away and blocked on run plays here-and-there. He only started 1 year at NC State. People love him because he was a Free Safety prior to becoming a LB. But being a FS he hasn't had a lot of time fighting blocks against the run.  I'd give him some time before I'd expect an NFL caliber starter.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 11:47 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I would argue that this team really didn't need to make huge up grades on this roster outside of RT, RG( although Westerman is capable of starting Imo), and LB.  I would say while FA was a dissapointment the draft wasn't. We got two day one starters in Williams and Pratt.

We don't know if Pratt can start...and Pratt was a 3rd Round pick. Not a 1st Round pick.

Williams should be an upgrade to Hart.

So we still need a RG. Center was bad last year. Price hopefully fixes that. LT was shaky. Hopefully Glenn is healthy. He hasn't been for 3 years.

Then, we arguably need 2 LB's. Even IF Pratt is a capable starter, we have no depth at LB and those guys get injured a lot.

Then, our WR's from 3 on were all bad last year. John Ross has 210 receiving yards in 2 years. We'll be counting on him as WR 3.

A lot of risk in all that. A LOT.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 11:59 AM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: I think Pratt starts because we are weak at LB but I do not believe he would be a day 1 starter on a team with an adequate LB corps. He has a decent chance of getting washed away and blocked on run plays here-and-there. He only started 1 year at NC State. People love him because he was a Free Safety prior to becoming a LB. But being a FS he hasn't had a lot of time fighting blocks against the run.  I'd give him some time before I'd expect an NFL caliber starter.

People love him because we drafted him. Just like Sample.

Had the Steelers drafted Sample in the 2nd Round, we'd be hearing about how they reached for a blocking TE. We'd also hear about all of Pratt's deficiencies.

That's how most people on the board roll.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 11:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And you are completely wrong.

League wide free agency is a zero net sum gain.  Every good player who signs with one team is a loss to another team.

So there is no way in hell adding the 8th highest paid OT and the leagues leading tackler without losing a single significant player could be just "average".

It goes back to the crazy idea people like you have that EVERY team improves in free agency.  That is because you only look at additions and act like no team ever loses any players.

We lost players: McCarron. Bodine. Lafell. Minter. Iloka.  Hewitt. Jones. Jeremy Hill.

5 of those guys were starters.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(05-13-2019, 12:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: People love him because we drafted him. Just like Sample.

Had the Steelers drafted Sample in the 2nd Round, we'd be hearing about how they reached for a blocking TE. We'd also hear about all of Pratt's deficiencies.

That's how most people on the board roll.

Lol. Exactly.

[Socal Bengals fan]

The great Jake Fisher was cut from Buffalo. And know there was a few here that wanted to try him at TE. Fail

[THE PISTONS]

We'll probably pick him up now that he's played for Buffalo. 

[J24]

(05-13-2019, 11:59 AM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: I think Pratt starts because we are weak at LB but I do not believe he would be a day 1 starter on a team with an adequate LB corps. He has a decent chance of getting washed away and blocked on run plays here-and-there. He only started 1 year at NC State. People love him because he was a Free Safety prior to becoming a LB. But being a FS he hasn't had a lot of time fighting blocks against the run.  I'd give him some time before I'd expect an NFL caliber starter.

He was 6th in Tackle percentage last season and he has the athletic ability to play all three downs. Is a perfect prospect NO but he is good enough to start.

(05-13-2019, 12:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We don't know if Pratt can start...and Pratt was a 3rd Round pick. Not a 1st Round pick.

Williams should be an upgrade to Hart.

So we still need a RG. Center was bad last year. Price hopefully fixes that. LT was shaky. Hopefully Glenn is healthy. He hasn't been for 3 years.

Then, we arguably need 2 LB's. Even IF Pratt is a capable starter, we have no depth at LB and those guys get injured a lot.

Then, our WR's from 3 on were all bad last year. John Ross has 210 receiving yards in 2 years. We'll be counting on him as WR 3.

A lot of risk in all that. A LOT.

Jerome Baker and Fred Warner we're drafted in the third round last year and started for there respective teams last season.
Offensive line is still a question mark but with the injuries that Price faced last season I think it's reasonable to expect him to bounce back. Glenn is Shakey but he doesn't have to be great but only solid. RG worries me but  Westerman plays well when in line up and we signed Miller from Buffalo who is coming off a career year there.
We play Nickle 70% of the time plus Vigil is a good player when healthy.
Ross had 7 TDs last season and played nearly 50% snaps with Driskle at QB. Of course his numbers would stuggle. 
Also you act like every team can go 3 or 4 deep at every position that's just not a case it's not an easy thing to replace a top ten WR, TE, Edge, and a starting QB.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 11:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But the first one was a successful season.  So why use that to try and prove he is a bad coach?

You can't have it both ways.  You can't claim that McVay's '17 season was a success and Marvins '05 was a failure.

He's  slightly above average regular season coach statistically. But, the worst playoff coach statistically.

Maybe Taylor will go 0-8 in the playoffs to make Lewis the next to worst playoff coach statistically. Although I suppose their win percentages would both be 0% so you'd probably argue that they were equal.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 02:29 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: He was 6th in Tackle percentage last season and he has the athletic ability to play all three downs. Is a perfect prospect NO but he is good enough to start.


Jerome Baker and Fred Warner we're drafted in the third round last year and started for there respective teams last season.
Offensive line is still a question mark but with the injuries that Price faced last season I think it's reasonable to expect him to bounce back. Glenn is Shakey but he doesn't have to be great but only solid. RG worries me but  Westerman plays well when in line up and we signed Miller from Buffalo who is coming off a career year there.
We play Nickle 70% of the time plus Vigil is a good player when healthy.
Ross had 7 TDs last season and played nearly 50% snaps with Driskle at QB. Of course his numbers would stuggle. 
Also you act like every team can go 3 or 4 deep at every position that's just not a case it's not an easy thing to replace a top ten WR, TE, Edge, and a starting QB.

You neglected to mention that we took Jefferson with the 78th pick and he was unable to learn special teams play.

Hardy Nickerson started last year. I wouldn't say that made him a good football player.

I'd be all for starting Pratt. But I also want Pratt to produce at atleast an average level.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 02:29 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: He was 6th in Tackle percentage last season and he has the athletic ability to play all three downs. Is a perfect prospect NO but he is good enough to start.


Jerome Baker and Fred Warner we're drafted in the third round last year and started for there respective teams last season.
Offensive line is still a question mark but with the injuries that Price faced last season I think it's reasonable to expect him to bounce back. Glenn is Shakey but he doesn't have to be great but only solid. RG worries me but  Westerman plays well when in line up and we signed Miller from Buffalo who is coming off a career year there.
We play Nickle 70% of the time plus Vigil is a good player when healthy.
Ross had 7 TDs last season and played nearly 50% snaps with Driskle at QB. Of course his numbers would stuggle. 
Also you act like every team can go 3 or 4 deep at every position that's just not a case it's not an easy thing to replace a top ten WR, TE, Edge, and a starting QB.

Career year for Miller was 64.3. In previous years he was in and out of the starting lineup.

[PAjwPhilly]

(05-13-2019, 02:29 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: He was 6th in Tackle percentage last season and he has the athletic ability to play all three downs. Is a perfect prospect NO but he is good enough to start.

On the 63rd ranked college defense.  And NC State doesn't play many powerhouse teams like the SEC. Did he have any other competition out there making tackles? He was the only defensive player selected from NC State.  Just about every college draft analysis had 2 LBs as day 1 starters: Devin Bush and Devin White.

We needed a LB, and I like our pick since both of those guys were gone. But give the guy a little room for error. Like what I originally stated... he starts most likely because we are bad at LB. He probably has some issues with run defense.. give him some time to grow into a NFL caliber starter.

[XsandOs]

(05-13-2019, 10:52 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Was trading for Glenn and signing Preston Brown to a 1 year $5 million contract 'loading up'?

Brown was an above average to average LB with Buffalo who struggles in coverage.
Glenn was hurt for the previous 2 years. Before that, he was a REALLY GOOD Tackle.

I think adding 2 players like that is an average offseason for most teams. Here we think it's some massive haul.

How has not mortgaging the future worked out for us?

Bringing in three starters via FA, is singnificant.

But I do see your perspective and agree that taking a step up requires some degree of risk taking.

[J24]

(05-13-2019, 03:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You neglected to mention that we took Jefferson with the 78th pick and he was unable to learn special teams play.

Hardy Nickerson started last year. I wouldn't say that made him a good football player.

I'd be all for starting Pratt. But I also want Pratt to produce at atleast an average level.

1.) What's your point? 
2.) Nickerson only played because of injury and suspension
3.)what's to say he can't why are you just assuming the negative?

(05-13-2019, 03:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Career year for Miller was 64.3. In previous years he was in and out of the starting lineup.

1.) Which is average and 2.) was 25th amongst guards last season.

[J24]

(05-13-2019, 04:03 PM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: On the 63rd ranked college defense.  And NC State doesn't play many powerhouse teams like the SEC. Did he have any other competition out there making tackles? He was the only defensive player selected from NC State.  Just about every college draft analysis had 2 LBs as day 1 starters: Devin Bush and Devin White.

We needed a LB, and I like our pick since both of those guys were gone. But give the guy a little room for error. Like what I originally stated... he starts most likely because we are bad at LB. He probably has some issues with run defense.. give him some time to grow into a NFL caliber starter.

played in the ACC against good competition and he was ALL ACC PFF first team with a 90 grade.