Boom or Bust Draft

[PAjwPhilly]

Not surprising news as we are a media punching bag....

I recently saw a video on posted on MSN.com, sourced from the NFL, where Jonah Williams was not picked to make the All-Rookie team. They had Kaleb McGary (Falcons pick at 31) and Greg Little (Panthers @ 37) playing tackle. An interesting note however was they had Dalton Risner playing guard (Broncos @ 41).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/projecting-the-nfls-2019-all-rookie-team/vi-AABw1s5

[HarleyDog]

(05-19-2019, 05:11 PM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: Not surprising news as we are a media punching bag....

I recently saw a video on posted on MSN.com, sourced from the NFL, where Jonah Williams was not picked to make the All-Rookie team.  They had Kaleb McGary (Falcons pick at 31) and Greg Little (Panthers @ 37) playing tackle.  An interesting note however was they had Dalton Risner playing guard (Broncos @ 41).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/projecting-the-nfls-2019-all-rookie-team/vi-AABw1s5

Not surprising. Yet, the lack of respect will only make this team stronger. These are no longer Marvins Bengals. New Dey!

[fortyyearfan]

(05-16-2019, 06:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I believe it will end up a good one as well. It's just so hard to say for sure at this point, it usually takes a couple seasons in fact. I really think the Sample pick could end up being a real steal for this team.

Most all college players that are drafted can play football and what really makes a player really good is his desire,skills and the most important one is the ability of the coaches to show him and for them to buy in to what they are being taught.Its the coaches jobs to motivate these young men,to have them believe in the coaches.Sure all players must be pushed at times.Football is very tough and can wear you down.You will have bad days,but if the entire coaching staff is pulling the right way and the players BELIEVE in them and have the desire to want to win,we will have a very good team,barring injuries.I do believe this draft class is rated an A- for a reason and I am calling it a BOOM.I could see us winning 9 games or just 6 games,it will depend on injuries,and coming out of the gate strong.The nfl hates us,I mean opening day in seattle ?? If we were to pull that one out,we would be so pumped up.Its a huge task,I am remaining positive on this opening day.We have to sell out all HOME GAMES.A MUST.Win all home games and two on the road and we are in the PLAYOFFS. :andy: ITS doable.

[*psychdoctor*]

I think the Bengals will have 3 starters from this draft, and a rotational player in Wren, if he does well at mini-camp. SO I Think 3 starters is pretty good for any draft. Not sure if it is a Boom. But the Fact the coaching changes on top of this draft brings a lot of hope for a fan-base that has suffered for years in some ways.

I also think they took low risk, high character players with leadership intangibles. No bust potential here because these players were captains, leaders during their collegiate endeavors. The days of boom or bust hopefully left the Bengal franchise when Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis had less influence on draftees. The aforementioned tandem of Lewis and Brown would take risky character players that dropped in draft but had tremendous talent.

The Zac Taylor approach, seems to take tremendous human beings with solid but not flashy talent. The risk they took on Anderson was due to injury and not character. Refreshing.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-16-2019, 05:33 PM)3wt Wrote: Ross Tucker called our draft "Meh";   Kiper & McShay graded our draft out at A-

So we have a boom or bust draft here:

1. Jonah Williams - Dropped because no one could certify he'd be a quality tackle and because of ordinary measurable and athleticism; BUT superior production against elite competition, superior intelligence, love of the game, superior technique and mental toughness
2. Drew Sample - Roundly criticized pick because of paltry production in the receiving game and the belief he'd be there as late as the 4th round; BUT film showed that he was frequently open, caught everything thrown to him, was the consensus best blocking TE in the 2019 class and would not have been there in the 3rd Round
3. Germaine Pratt - Liked by most but loved by none.  Former safety with good production but stiff hips and limited athleticism;  BUT superior production, excellent speed, demonstrated ability to cover and a great tackler.
4. Ryan Finley - Meh QB in this class.   Tucker calls him, "Dalton Lite".   Average to below average arm.  Inconsistent.  BUT - when he's on he's VERY accurate, has great intelligence and is a big time competitor.
5. Renell Wren - Inconsistent performance.  Raw.  BUT - Big time size/ length, great quickness, motivated (late) towards practice and film work, when he's performing up to his capabilities is dominant.  I read that as he's inconsistent because of lack of experience not motivation or brains.  Deemed very coachable.
6. Michael Jordan - Has poor techniques and sluggish feet and is prone to quick combination moves; BUT has great size, was smart enough to make the calls as center and is likely to grow into his size as he cleans up his technique
7. Trayveon Williams - Smaller back with limited power and limited vision;  BUT gained mentally and physically in his last season, has great production is an alpha player that sparks the rest of the team.
8. Deshaun Davis - Smaller linebacker with average to slow speed;  BUT is very smart, knows where to be, sheds well and gets there quicker than faster linebackers - and hits like a tank
9. Rodney Anderson - Talented and well sized running back with a significant history of injuries; BUT the film when he's healthy is excellent and has the potential to be the perfect backup to Mixon
10. Jordan Brown - Good sized corner who is perceived as not being physical and a poor tackler;  BUT has terrific size/ speed ratio, has really good ball skills and can "smother" underneath routes
    

It's the Kool-Aid, rose colored glasses and homer time of the year I realize.  But I think the draft has the potential to be excellent.  And I'm intrigued by the UDFA QB as well.   I particularly am excited about the first 3 picks and Wren, Jordan and Davis.  They have the potential to be game changers by the end of the season.  So I'm saying BOOM.

What say you?  Boom or bust?

I'm going BOOM because it isn't necessarily just how well these players come in and contribute but the synergy created by filling some substantial gaps in the roster:

Williams allows us to move Glenn (who has clearly lost a step and was never elite) to a position where he could upgrade that position, be it RT or RG.  

Sample gives us depth of talent at TE, improved run blocking, and the flexibility of having Uzomah or Eifert lining up outside (their more natural position).  

Pratt is the speedy linebacker we haven't had in some time.  Nickel package (our real base defense) with him and Vigil will be light years ahead of what was being rolled out there last year.  I don't see DeShawn Davis as having the speed to make it and I wish there had been another LB selected instead of Ryan Finley, although I understand the move.  

Wren and Jordan have the potential to contribute as starters in the long run, but right now will provide quality depth.  Wren might just be situational at first, but fills a huge gap left by Peko.  It also serves notice to Billings that he needs to step up or could lose his spot.  Jordan could end up being the steal of the draft and fill the void left by Boling next year...which seems very likely at this point.

The backs are going to help prepare for life without Gio and will provide quality depth behind Mixon.  They look like outstanding values where they were selected.  Based on their production and where they played, it shows how undervalued RBs have often become in the draft.  I also think they will both have boulder-sized chips on their shoulder.

Jordan Brown is an absolute freak athletically and has amazing ball skills.  An NFL strength and conditioning program might allow this 7th rounder to take the place of our slot corner (Dennard) that was a 1st rounder.  That would be extraordinary drafting.  Watch this kid in the preseason.  He has AJ Green-like in-air adjustments that are just unbelievable.

So, if you get more out of your current roster, and get starters out of your first three picks with many of your later picks clearly being earmarked for future starting roles with current abilities to play on a rotational basis, you have done pretty damn well.  

[PAjwPhilly]

(05-20-2019, 07:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm going BOOM because it isn't necessarily just how well these players come in and contribute but the synergy created by filling some substantial gaps in the roster:

Williams allows us to move Glenn (who has clearly lost a step and was never elite) to a position where he could upgrade that position, be it RT or RG.  

Sample gives us depth of talent at TE, improved run blocking, and the flexibility of having Uzomah or Eifert lining up outside (their more natural position).  

Pratt is the speedy linebacker we haven't had in some time.  Nickel package (our real base defense) with him and Vigil will be light years ahead of what was being rolled out there last year.  I don't see DeShawn Davis as having the speed to make it and I wish there had been another LB selected instead of Ryan Finley, although I understand the move.  

Wren and Jordan have the potential to contribute as starters in the long run, but right now will provide quality depth.  Wren might just be situational at first, but fills a huge gap left by Peko.  It also serves notice to Billings that he needs to step up or could lose his spot.  Jordan could end up being the steal of the draft and fill the void left by Boling next year...which seems very likely at this point.

The backs are going to help prepare for life without Gio and will provide quality depth behind Mixon.  They look like outstanding values where they were selected.  Based on their production and where they played, it shows how undervalued RBs have often become in the draft.  I also think they will both have boulder-sized chips on their shoulder.

Jordan Brown is an absolute freak athletically and has amazing ball skills.  An NFL strength and conditioning program might allow this 7th rounder to take the place of our slot corner (Dennard) that was a 1st rounder.  That would be extraordinary drafting.  Watch this kid in the preseason.  He has AJ Green-like in-air adjustments that are just unbelievable.

So, if you get more out of your current roster, and get starters out of your first three picks with many of your later picks clearly being earmarked for future starting roles with current abilities to play on a rotational basis, you have done pretty damn well.  

I'd be careful at this assumption... If you can read the play faster, you can run slower... running a 4.4 isn't mandatory for LBs. Quick feet and a slow read ends up a lot like slow feet and a fast read. Our Burfict was no track sprinter himself.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I don't think this draft is a Boom or Bust, it's just solid and does a good job trying to address our needs.
There is plenty of Solid players in here, don't need flashy Diva's, just guys who work their tails off and bring it and I feel that's what a lot of these players are that we drafted.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-20-2019, 10:41 AM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: I'd be careful at this assumption... If you can read the play faster, you can run slower... running a 4.4 isn't mandatory for LBs. Quick feet and a slow read ends up a lot like slow feet and a fast read. Our Burfict was no track sprinter himself.

I agree with that.

I think the biggest thing we need to look at when historically evaluating a draft is that we generally are lucky to get 1-2 starters and a couple key backups from any draft...and that is a pretty good draft.

Most guys we draft are special teamers and backups.

I'd have to think Williams will be a quality starter.

Beyond that, Pratt or Davis seems to have a good opportunity to start simply because we lack a 3rd starting LB.

Sample will have to prove he's a pass catcher to be a starter. Solid blocking is always something you need on a team so maybe he plays a decent role early.

Beyond that, it's hard to say. A guy like Wren seems to have potential, but it seems we always have 2-3 guys like him at DT.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-20-2019, 07:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm going BOOM because it isn't necessarily just how well these players come in and contribute but the synergy created by filling some substantial gaps in the roster:

Williams allows us to move Glenn (who has clearly lost a step and was never elite) to a position where he could upgrade that position, be it RT or RG.  

Sample gives us depth of talent at TE, improved run blocking, and the flexibility of having Uzomah or Eifert lining up outside (their more natural position).  

Pratt is the speedy linebacker we haven't had in some time.  Nickel package (our real base defense) with him and Vigil will be light years ahead of what was being rolled out there last year.  I don't see DeShawn Davis as having the speed to make it and I wish there had been another LB selected instead of Ryan Finley, although I understand the move.  

Wren and Jordan have the potential to contribute as starters in the long run, but right now will provide quality depth.  Wren might just be situational at first, but fills a huge gap left by Peko.  It also serves notice to Billings that he needs to step up or could lose his spot.  Jordan could end up being the steal of the draft and fill the void left by Boling next year...which seems very likely at this point.

The backs are going to help prepare for life without Gio and will provide quality depth behind Mixon.  They look like outstanding values where they were selected.  Based on their production and where they played, it shows how undervalued RBs have often become in the draft.  I also think they will both have boulder-sized chips on their shoulder.

Jordan Brown is an absolute freak athletically and has amazing ball skills.  An NFL strength and conditioning program might allow this 7th rounder to take the place of our slot corner (Dennard) that was a 1st rounder.  That would be extraordinary drafting.  Watch this kid in the preseason.  He has AJ Green-like in-air adjustments that are just unbelievable.

So, if you get more out of your current roster, and get starters out of your first three picks with many of your later picks clearly being earmarked for future starting roles with current abilities to play on a rotational basis, you have done pretty damn well.  

Great stuff on Jordan Brown, this guy is a talent and could be another steal especially in the 7th round!

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-20-2019, 10:41 AM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: I'd be careful at this assumption... If you can read the play faster, you can run slower... running a 4.4 isn't mandatory for LBs. Quick feet and a slow read ends up a lot like slow feet and a fast read. Our Burfict was no track sprinter himself.

I saw Burfict display outstanding speed and it is different with pads on, I understand, but running something close to a 4.9 as an already undersized option....well, I just think he will have a tough time knocking a Jordan Evans out of the depth chart as the backup WILL.  And FWIW, I though Evans looked better at MIKE when he got a shot there against Indy.  Granted, that was a preseason game. 

[grampahol]

Every drafted player for the Bengals this year will be in the NFL HOF by 2040 and be called the greatest draft by any team ever so much in fact that all future draftees will be excluded from HOF considerations.. 

You don't think so? I am just utterly shocked! 

[Luvnit2]

(05-20-2019, 06:44 PM)grampahol Wrote: Every drafted player for the Bengals this year will be in the NFL HOF by 2040 and be called the greatest draft by any team ever so much in fact that all future draftees will be excluded from HOF considerations.. 

You don't think so? I am just utterly shocked! 

I only question it because J. Williams will play until 2036 so will not be eligible in 2040 and Finley the next Tom Brady plays until age 50.  

[THE PISTONS]

(05-20-2019, 08:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I only question it because J. Williams will play until 2036 so will not be eligible in 2040 and Findley the next Tom Brady plays until age 50.  

You forgot how we'll win the Super Bowl and hoist the Finley trophy!

[Luvnit2]

(05-20-2019, 10:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You forgot how we'll win the Super Bowl and hoist the Finley trophy!

In his speech, he will say fans did not know how to spell his name after draft.

[BengalChris]

(05-18-2019, 09:09 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Guess what? You have the same situation when acquiring free agents. Because I player was productive in one scheme does not mean he is productive in another scheme and that seems to be lost upon many of the "we have to get bigger free agents" group. For every difference making free agent signing I believe you could easily find 3 complete bust free agent signings.

Williams - No brainer

Sample - Best blocking TE we have had since Reggie Kelly already and should immediately be on the field.

Pratt - Should instantly be the WLB for this team and be an upgrade in coverage.

No different than if you had 3 free agents coming from other teams. Because until the chips are down you do not know how those free agents are going to adapt to your team.

(05-18-2019, 09:45 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I see what you are saying, but very hard to evaluate. Let's take 2018 production:

Williams versus ? Hart or A. Smith? Or will it be Glenn? If Glenn, will Glenn move to RT or guard so then that has to be thrown into the analysis.

Sample - Eifert was our starting TE and we got nothing so does that make Sample an automatic upgrade if he is a big part of the TE packages by his being there to block at a minimum?

Pratt - If Pratt replaces Burfict, almost anything will be an upgrade.

Very hard to factor in injuries and PT of the prior starters into the analysis because a lot of those starters are back also or could be switched to a different role on the team.

But using your criteria, Williams, Sample and Pratt are 3 guys that should be better than the production in 2018 by those starters/players.

If all 3 become upgraded starters, then this will be a very good draft for the Bengals. If one of the later round guys turns out to be a gem it could end being 4 starters in a couple of years, who knows?

Can't count our chickens before they are hatched though.

Burfict's rapid decline certainly did make any old warm body an upgrade from last season. But we do need Pratt to play well.

It doesn't matter which side Williams plays on to me. Glenn is a better tackle than Hart on any side.

I don't particularly see Sample being better than a healthy Eifert, but since when could Eifert stay healthy for a season?

[3wt]

(05-21-2019, 12:21 AM)BengalChris Wrote: If all 3 become upgraded starters, then this will be a very good draft for the Bengals. If one of the later round guys turns out to be a gem it could end being 4 starters in a couple of years, who knows?

It doesn't matter which side Williams plays on to me. Glenn is a better tackle than Hart on any side.

I don't particularly see Sample being better than a healthy Eifert, but since when could Eifert stay healthy for a season?

Agreed about Glenn.  And I think it will.  The Pratt pick will probably be the least reliable.

It appears they're first choice is Glenn at guard.   And I see the logic... a little.  But anytime you can switch out Glenn for Hart you ought to do it.   He's going to have to adjust anywhere you put him.  Probably a little more difficult going from right to left than tackle to guard.   But if you want the 5 best players on the field...

Still this is the time to see what it looks like.

And from what Lap is saying, Sample already looks fine as a receiver.  So then the upgrade isn't over Eifert (who barely played last year), but A) Kroft/ Uzamah, everyone else, and; B) any tight end we had that could both block like a boss, run routes and catch.

I think the odds are that we have at least two upgrades at the least.  And I'm pretty sure between Jordan and the two running backs we're good for at least one more.

For me the odds are that we will have 4 significant upgraded positions

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-20-2019, 12:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great stuff on Jordan Brown, this guy is a talent and could be another steal especially in the 7th round!

Huge fan. Him and Jimmy Moreland were two of my late draft favorites.