Andy Dalton & Comparative QB Stats...

[ItsOdellThurman]

We can concede that Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Tony Romo, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan are better than Andy Dalton. However, compare him to every other QB in the league and he not only compares favorably, but better. Others there's not enough sample size to bring into the argument or he's clearly better than. With that said...here you go.

Dalton (5 years) - 107 TD, 67 INT, 61.8 Comp %, 86.7 QBR
Stafford (7 years) - 136 TD, 90 INT, 59.8 Comp %, 83.4 QBR
Cutler (10 years) - 185 TD, 132 INT, 61.7 Comp %, 85.1 QBR
Flacco (8 years) - 152 TD, 94 INT, 60.7 Comp %, 84.7 QBR
Smith (10 years) - 126 TD, 79 INT, 60.5 Comp %, 83.0 QBR
Bradford (6 years) - 62 TD, 42 INT, 58.9 Comp %, 78.9 QBR
Palmer (12 years) - 233 TD, 157 INT, 62.6 Comp %, 86.9 QBR
Manning (12 years) - 263 TD, 185 INT, 59.1 Comp %, 82.7 QBR

Andy ranked 1st or 2nd in every stat, which includes TD/INT ratio, Comp % and QBR.

He's in a unique scenario where it's literally only the playoffs.

[djs7685]

Well, it's not "literally" only the playoffs. He has had his issues beyond that, but the playoffs are a big issue for him and the Cincinnati Bengals team in general.

The stats just tell us more of what we already know. Andy has been better than most guys who aren't clearly deserving of a top 10 QB ranking.

At the end of the day, Andy is playing great this season which is all that matters for the time being. It sucks that he couldn't look this good in the past, but I'm more concerned with the present and future right now. Andy looks like a fantastic QB this year, and let's hope he continues!

He WILL have bad games though, so I hope a lot of people don't jump off the bandwagon the first time he throws a dozen or so bad passes in a game. It's going to happen at some point, but we need it to not be in the playoffs and not be a frequent occurrence in 2015.

[ItsOdellThurman]

It's just the playoffs. A game played in prime time is only meaningful to those who want to track meaningless stats. Last I checked, they still count as a single game in the standings. Just because national TV viewership is added in doesn't change the importance.

...and this thread wasn't made to get buy-in or find sellers from the Bengals' fan base. There's no convincing them from whatever side they are on. It's more to illustrate just how crazy Dalton's perception in the national media and across the country has become. It's actually a very unique and polarizing situation.

[McC]

(09-29-2015, 11:53 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Well, it's not "literally" only the playoffs. He has had his issues beyond that, but the playoffs are a big issue for him and the Cincinnati Bengals team in general.

The stats just tell us more of what we already know. Andy has been better than most guys who aren't clearly deserving of a top 10 QB ranking.

At the end of the day, Andy is playing great this season which is all that matters for the time being. It sucks that he couldn't look this good in the past, but I'm more concerned with the present and future right now. Andy looks like a fantastic QB this year, and let's hope he continues!

He WILL have bad games though, so I hope a lot of people don't jump off the bandwagon the first time he throws a dozen or so bad passes in a game. It's going to happen at some point, but we need it to not be in the playoffs and not be a frequent occurrence in 2015.

Maybe this Andy has turned a corner and won't make ten or twelve bad throws in a game.  He has, after all, made a bunch of great throws that maybe we've never seen him make.

And maybe, even if he does have a bad Andy day, maybe he finds a way to overcome them.  Maybe the new definition of Bad Andy will be makes a couple bad throws or turns it over a couple times but doesn't let them sink him, like this past Sunday.

Let me put it this way, I see a different Andy Dalton so far.  This Andy seems more poised, more resilient, more capable of overcoming adversity and less likely to create adversity.  I am cautiously optimistic that this Andy is firmly on the right track.

[djs7685]

(09-29-2015, 11:58 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: It's just the playoffs.  A game played in prime time is only meaningful to those who want to track meaningless stats.  Last I checked, they still count as a single game in the standings.  Just because national TV viewership is added in doesn't change the importance.

...and this thread wasn't made to get buy-in or find sellers from the Bengals' fan base.  There's no convincing them from whatever side they are on.  It's more to illustrate just how crazy Dalton's perception in the national media and across the country has become.  It's actually a very unique and polarizing situation.

It's not "literally just the playoffs". Stop saying that. He has had very bad regular season games as well that have brought his overall ratios and statistics down. If his problem was "just the playoffs", he wouldn't be a career 85 rating QB through 4 seasons.

This isn't about what side anybody is on, it's just laying out the facts instead of flat out lying about them like you're doing. He's playing excellent football right now, but we can't pretend his issues were "only" the playoffs before.

(09-29-2015, 12:04 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe this Andy has turned a corner and won't make ten or twelve bad throws in a game.  He has, after all, made a bunch of great throws that maybe we've never seen him make.

And maybe, even if he does have a bad Andy day, maybe he finds a way to overcome them.  Maybe the new definition of Bad Andy will be makes a couple bad throws or turns it over a couple times but doesn't let them sink him, like this past Sunday.

Let me put it this way, I see a different Andy Dalton so far.  This Andy seems more poised, more resilient, more capable of overcoming adversity and less likely to create adversity.  I am cautiously optimistic that this Andy is firmly on the right track.

I completely agree. It looks like a different guy out there, and that's a very good thing from what we've seen thus far. I'm cautiously optimistic as well about both Andy and this team as a whole. If they can go out there and beat some of the other good teams coming up, I'll be able to proceed with less caution for the rest of the year.

[McC]

(09-29-2015, 12:16 PM)djs7685 Wrote: It's not "literally just the playoffs". Stop saying that. He has had very bad regular season games as well that have brought his overall ratios and statistics down. If his problem was "just the playoffs", he wouldn't be a career 85 rating QB through 4 seasons.

This isn't about what side anybody is on, it's just laying out the facts instead of flat out lying about them like you're doing. He's playing excellent football right now, but we can't pretend his issues were "only" the playoffs before.


I completely agree. It looks like a different guy out there, and that's a very good thing from what we've seen thus far. I'm cautiously optimistic as well about both Andy and this team as a whole. If they can go out there and beat some of the other good teams coming up, I'll be able to proceed with less caution for the rest of the year.

Well, we are Bengals fans, so caution is part of our DNA. We might go all in when they're hoisting the Lombardi. Might...

[Anderson HOF]

(09-29-2015, 12:16 PM)djs7685 Wrote: It's not "literally just the playoffs". Stop saying that. He has had very bad regular season games as well that have brought his overall ratios and statistics down. If his problem was "just the playoffs", he wouldn't be a career 85 rating QB through 4 seasons.

This isn't about what side anybody is on, it's just laying out the facts instead of flat out lying about them like you're doing. He's playing excellent football right now, but we can't pretend his issues were "only" the playoffs before.


I completely agree. It looks like a different guy out there, and that's a very good thing from what we've seen thus far. I'm cautiously optimistic as well about both Andy and this team as a whole. If they can go out there and beat some of the other good teams coming up, I'll be able to proceed with less caution for the rest of the year.

If you look up those quarterbacks listed.. you will find very bad games in all of them.   AFter 4 years to 6 years, they say that is where you really can start to measure QB's of today since most started right out of college now and do get that extra time on the sidelines... I believe Rogers benefitted greatly by being behind Favre.. but to my point.. Dalton is now at the true measure of a QB... playoffs are important but there have been many good QBs (Rivers) that have not had much success in playoffs but are very good QBs in the final analysis.

[XenoMorph]

(09-29-2015, 11:46 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: We can concede that Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Tony Romo, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan are better than Andy Dalton. However, compare him to every other QB in the league and he not only compares favorably, but better. Others there's not enough sample size to bring into the argument or he's clearly better than. With that said...here you go.

Dalton (5 years) - 107 TD, 67 INT, 61.8 Comp %, 86.7 QBR
Stafford (7 years) - 136 TD, 90 INT, 59.8 Comp %, 83.4 QBR
Cutler (10 years) - 185 TD, 132 INT, 61.7 Comp %, 85.1 QBR
Flacco (8 years) - 152 TD, 94 INT, 60.7 Comp %, 84.7 QBR
Smith (10 years) - 126 TD, 79 INT, 60.5 Comp %, 83.0 QBR
Bradford (6 years) - 62 TD, 42 INT, 58.9 Comp %, 78.9 QBR
Palmer (12 years) - 233 TD, 157 INT, 62.6 Comp %, 86.9 QBR
Manning (12 years) - 263 TD, 185 INT, 59.1 Comp %, 82.7 QBR

Andy ranked 1st or 2nd in every stat, which includes TD/INT ratio, Comp % and QBR.

He's in a unique scenario where it's literally only the playoffs.

well so far this season i believe is stat line is close to tom bradys....
Player 1 ATT- YDS -YDS/ATT -Long -TD
-----------133---1,112-8.4--------52-----9
Player 2- 92----866--9.4---------80-----8

And luck is a gunslinger but i dont know if hes elite
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/29/through-three-games-andrew-luck-ranks-dead-last-in-passer-rating/

[djs7685]

(09-29-2015, 01:12 PM)Anderson HOF Wrote: If you look up those quarterbacks listed.. you will find very bad games in all of them.   AFter 4 years to 6 years, they say that is where you really can start to measure QB's of today since most started right out of college now and do get that extra time on the sidelines... I believe Rogers benefitted greatly by being behind Favre.. but to my point.. Dalton is now at the true measure of a QB... playoffs are important but there have been many good QBs (Rivers) that have not had much success in playoffs but are very good QBs in the final analysis.

Who is "they"? Where are people saying that? I'm guessing you're just making stuff up like people have for the last 4 years on Bengals boards. I've heard that you can't really judge a QB until his 2nd season, then his 3rd season, then his 4th season....now it's "after 4 years to 6 years"??? Interesting how "they" always seem to say this with no links or proof to back it up.

Yes, if you look up the QBs listed you will find bad games in all of them, Andy included, hence the reason I said that his issues weren't solely the playoffs. He wouldn't have a 85 rating from years 1 - 4 if his only issues were in the playoffs, that's all I said. I never said the other guys didn't have bad games either, they clearly have had their problems as well.

[Guy Incognito]

(09-29-2015, 11:46 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: We can concede that Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Tony Romo, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan are better than Andy Dalton.  However, compare him to every other QB in the league and he not only compares favorably, but better.  Others there's not enough sample size to bring into the argument or he's clearly better than.  With that said...here you go.

Dalton (5 years) - 107 TD, 67 INT, 61.8 Comp %, 86.7 QBR
Stafford (7 years) - 136 TD, 90 INT, 59.8 Comp %, 83.4 QBR
Cutler (10 years) - 185 TD, 132 INT, 61.7 Comp %, 85.1 QBR
Flacco (8 years) - 152 TD, 94 INT, 60.7 Comp %, 84.7 QBR
Smith (10 years) - 126 TD, 79 INT, 60.5 Comp %, 83.0 QBR
Bradford (6 years) - 62 TD, 42 INT, 58.9 Comp %, 78.9 QBR
Palmer (12 years) - 233 TD, 157 INT, 62.6 Comp %, 86.9 QBR
Manning (12 years) - 263 TD, 185 INT, 59.1 Comp %, 82.7 QBR

Andy ranked 1st or 2nd in every stat, which includes TD/INT ratio, Comp % and QBR.

He's in a unique scenario where it's literally only the playoffs.

So what you're saying is he's pretty much in the middle of QBs right now since you lopped off 11 of them off the bat.  Or in other words, what almost everyone else has already said time and time again.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Well, Dalton is definately looking better than i have ever seen him, right now.

That was a great game Sunday from him, sat in there like Brady and ran like Aaron Rodgers.

Pin point passing and no fear.

[BigPapaKain]

As a point, I don't concede that Wilson or Luck are better than Dalton.

[tigershrimp]

Whoa, whoa, hold up!

I do not concede any such thing. Cam Newton? Matt Ryan? Tony Romo? Uh uh. I'd take Dalton over those three.

[Shake n Blake]

It's still wayyy early, but I've been thinking about all those comparisons some made to Drew Brees.

Brees didn't exactly look like "Drew friggin Brees" until his 6th season (1st in New Orleans).

Perhaps in Dalton's 5th season, Dalton has really hit his stride. Like I said, it's way early. We'll see.

Dalton has never been a bad QB, but it'd be great to see him up his game to a new level.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-29-2015, 06:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's still wayyy early, but I've been thinking about all those comparisons some made to Drew Brees.

Brees didn't exactly look like "Drew friggin Brees" until his 6th season (1st in New Orleans).

Perhaps in Dalton's 5th season, Dalton has really hit his stride. Like I said, it's way early. We'll see.

Dalton has never been a bad QB, but it'd be great to see him up his game to a new level.

Yeah, that is the QB Dalton reminds me of when he plays his best. Maybe Dalton is a little better
athlete and Brees is more accurate but they remind me of eachother when Dalton is on his game.

And you are right, it is way early though.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Through 3 games his deep ball is better. His play against the blitz is much better. He actually has more freedom to change the play at the line now. Now he finally has legitimate weapons outside of AJ Green. The sky is the limit. Ball security inside the pocket could improve though.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-29-2015, 12:04 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe this Andy has turned a corner and won't make ten or twelve bad throws in a game.  He has, after all, made a bunch of great throws that maybe we've never seen him make.

And maybe, even if he does have a bad Andy day, maybe he finds a way to overcome them.  Maybe the new definition of Bad Andy will be makes a couple bad throws or turns it over a couple times but doesn't let them sink him, like this past Sunday.

Let me put it this way, I see a different Andy Dalton so far.  This Andy seems more poised, more resilient, more capable of overcoming adversity and less likely to create adversity.  I am cautiously optimistic that this Andy is firmly on the right track.

Agree,

There seems to be a fire and passion burning inside Dalton that wasn't there before. In fact the entire team seems to have an inner determination that has mostly been absent in seasons past.

Question is ? Can we/he maintain it ? I'm so very ready for them to do it !

[Anderson HOF]

(09-29-2015, 01:47 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Who is "they"? Where are people saying that? I'm guessing you're just making stuff up like people have for the last 4 years on Bengals boards. I've heard that you can't really judge a QB until his 2nd season, then his 3rd season, then his 4th season....now it's "after 4 years to 6 years"??? Interesting how "they" always seem to say this with no links or proof to back it up.

Yes, if you look up the QBs listed you will find bad games in all of them, Andy included, hence the reason I said that his issues weren't solely the playoffs. He wouldn't have a 85 rating from years 1 - 4 if his only issues were in the playoffs, that's all I said. I never said the other guys didn't have bad games either, they clearly have had their problems as well.

They are those that have played the game.. was listening to NFL network and it was mentioned that a true measure of a QB is at least 4 years in for them as a whole.  I also heard Kenny Anderson mention that and how today rookie QB's are tossed in right away and you really need to wait a few years to get a real measure of them...   

As for you mentioning Andy and bad games.. I don;t believe you added that other QB's also have bad games... come back to me with some real quotes and stats.. right now you just a sad shell of a poster :)