Where is Ross?

[Shake n Blake]

(06-04-2019, 01:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ida know...he's only played like 4 games with Dalton so he's technically a rookie.  Plus, if the new offensive system is good it's still his first year in a new system, and if the offensive system isn't good it'll be the system's fault.

True. We just have to give Ross a chance. 

(06-05-2019, 11:03 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The so called negative Nancy's won't ever appreciate a number nine draft pick that probably has zero chance of being a WR1. All people are hired with expectations. If you don't live up to them then you will NEVER get the respect that you would have gotten if you lived up to those expectations. That's life. 

We shouldn't forever hold his draft position against him. At this point, if Ross can be a viable #3 WR with 500+ yards, 5+ TD's and takes the top off the defense, I don't care what round he was taken in. That's solid production I can roll with. We don't need him to be a 1000 yard WR1. We have Green and Boyd, so that production isn't even possible even if he were capable.

[*ochocincos*]

For those giving Ross a hard time about his lack of yards, think about how fantasy football treats TDs vs yards.
Typically, a receiving TD is the equivalent of 60 yards (6 pts).
7 TDs is the equivalent of 420 yards.
Add those yards to the 210 he had last year and he'd have been at 630 yards.
Would 630 yards, 0 TDs be viewed as better than 210 yards, 7 TDs?

[Catmandude123]

(06-05-2019, 12:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: True. We just have to give Ross a chance. 


 We don't need him to be a 1000 yard WR1. 

We drafted him to be the heir to AJ but he has under preformed his first two years. The number nine pick in the draft isn't picked to be a  wr3 no matter what you think. You don't become a wr1 by draft status you compete and take that title. Dalton has no trust in him so my bet is after this year he or Dalton are gone.

[*Nately120*]

(06-05-2019, 12:44 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: The bengals on draft day 2017.  Let’s draft Ross even if he doesn’t get 200 yards a year as long as he’s on the field that’s a success because he opens up the offense.  Ok awesome let’s draft this decoy with the number 9 pick.  Yes. This will be brilliant strategy.  

I have no idea why we haven’t won a playoff game since 1990.   Shocking

Ehh, what can you do? Even if Ross is or does open up the underneath stuff for the other guys, we are using a top 10 pick to do something the Steelers got out of a scrapheap WR in Darius Heyward Bey.

Wait...he's a free agent now. And now I'm looking at his stats and they've been super low for the past 3 years. Still, he paid off for them. At any rate, Ross being our 5th option at WR sort of reminds me of Hobsin semi-bragging about how our team had the luxury of having so many high draft picks on the bench for the o-line. Um...great?

[depthchart]

(06-05-2019, 01:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Would 630 yards, 0 TDs be viewed as better than 210 yards, 7 TDs?

I would be more confident in Ross' future if I had seen the 630 receiving yards last year.

Getting the yards should mean that the TDs should eventually follow at some point going forward & that he was holding up to getting hit a lot.

It seemed that a number of his TDs were designed for him to use his cutting quickness to get separation when the team was fairly close to the end zone or for some longer TD attempts. Timing with Dalton on those plays was good and his step & cut quickness got enough space then the play ended with the TD. Doing these same timing routes in the field of play will likely end in big hits on Ross by defenders. Could be good for chain moving but Ross may take a beating.

Seeing him have 630 yards plus taking the extra hits associated with that would be more encouraging to me. I would prefer to have seen him adapt in different areas of the field of play with the expectation of being hit by defenders very high while his body holds up to the hitting. The designed TD attempt plays may be simpler for him to know exactly what to do; while racking up 630 yards in a variety of situations would likely mean that he is handling a more complex mental side to his game.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-05-2019, 01:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, what can you do? Even if Ross is or does open up the underneath stuff for the other guys, we are using a top 10 pick to do something the Steelers got out of a scrapheap WR in Darius Heyward Bey.

Wait...he's a free agent now.  And now I'm looking at his stats and they've been super low for the past 3 years.  Still, he paid off for them.  At any rate, Ross being our 5th option at WR sort of reminds me of Hobsin semi-bragging about how our team had the luxury of having so many high draft picks on the bench for the o-line.  Um...great?

Difference between DHB in Pittsburgh vs John Ross now is that nobody was high on DHB after they saw him in Oakland. It wasn't (and still isn't) known how John Ross will develop by the end of his rookie contract. DHB was thought to be more on the raw side but could develop into a good WR when he was drafted and he wad more ideal size. With that said, Ross had an even better resume than DHB coming out of college, as DHB never topped 800 receiving yards or 5 receiving TDs in a single season in college. Ross had 1150 receiving yards and 17 receiving TDs his last year in college. Ross wasn't considered near the project that DHB was.

I think a better comparison for Ross is (or will be) Devery Henderson. Henderson was somewhat on the smaller side but was a big play threat.
Henderson was the 50th overall pick but he also didn't have quite as good of a last season in college as Ross had.
Henderson's first two years in New Orleans, he totaled 343 yards and 3 TDs.
In Henderson's 3rd year, he exploded for 745 yards and 5 TDs.
Henderson was considered the 3rd WR and 4th overall receiving option on the team behind veteran Joe Horn, rookie Marques Colton (what a steal he was), and Reggie Bush. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-05-2019, 10:52 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I did not watch him every play so may be wrong, but I think he should be in motion more so other teams can't check him easily within 5 yards. He is not big so I can see his routes being disrupted and messing up the timing. Since AD is a timing QB, that could mess up their connection ability.

But, the reality is as of now, he is still AD's 3rd to 5th options in most games or plays. Will Zac and OC try and feature him against some teams due to match ups? I think that is on Ross to prove he deserves it, that starts in practice.

If someone comes up to press Ross, they better not miss.  As far as what option he is, that will remain to be seen but I would imagine we see him used a lot more in this offense.  It is like having a Ferrari in the garage and only using it to run the quarter mile once a week.  He can do so much more. 

[*ochocincos*]

(06-05-2019, 02:07 PM)depthchart Wrote: I would be more confident in Ross' future if I had seen the 630 receiving yards last year.

Getting the yards should mean that the TDs should eventually follow at some point going forward & that he was holding up to getting hit a lot.

It seemed that a number of his TDs were designed for him to use his cutting quickness to get separation when the team was fairly close to the end zone or for some longer TD attempts. Timing with Dalton on those plays was good and his step & cut quickness got enough space then the play ended with the TD. Doing these same timing routes in the field of play will likely end in big hits on Ross by defenders. Could be good for chain moving but Ross may take a beating.

Seeing him have 630 yards plus taking the extra hits associated with that would be more encouraging to me. I would prefer to have seen him adapt in different areas of the field of play with the expectation of being hit by defenders very high while his body holds up to the hitting. The designed TD attempt plays may be simpler for him to know exactly what to do; while racking up 630 yards in a variety of situations would likely mean that he is handling a more complex mental side to his game.

Perhaps the usage of Ross was actually intended to avoid having many big hits in order to avoid injury though.
If that's the case, that's on the coaches.
He was coming off multiple injuries from years prior, so I could understand the previous coaching staff being cautious.

[depthchart]

(06-05-2019, 03:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Perhaps the usage of Ross was actually intended to avoid having many big hits in order to avoid injury though.
If that's the case, that's on the coaches.
He was coming off multiple injuries from years prior, so I could understand the previous coaching staff being cautious.

I have a feeling that Ross & Dalton were able to practice a number of those end zone timing plays and the Coaches felt comfortable that Ross knew exactly what to do on those plays. Do this, create some space and the ball will come if Dalton sees the opening.

Ross did not seem as effective in the more normal course of the game, regular part of the field situations where maybe he had to think more about what to do or not do. How to react to defenders, where to be as the third option or what to do if a play breaks down etc.

Ross will get a chance for a reboot in the New Offense and hopefully Zac can expand his game. If things click and he can absorb punishment then his yardage numbers could jump while still maintaining effectiveness with some key end zone timing plays with Dalton.

[McC]

(06-05-2019, 11:03 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The so called negative Nancy's won't ever appreciate a number nine draft pick that probably has zero chance of being a WR1. All people are hired with expectations. If you don't live up to them then you will NEVER get the respect that you would have gotten if you lived up to those expectations. That's life. 

The story is not entirely written yet.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-05-2019, 01:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: For those giving Ross a hard time about his lack of yards, think about how fantasy football treats TDs vs yards.
Typically, a receiving TD is the equivalent of 60 yards (6 pts).
7 TDs is the equivalent of 420 yards.
Add those yards to the 210 he had last year and he'd have been at 630 yards.
Would 630 yards, 0 TDs be viewed as better than 210 yards, 7 TDs?

For me it's not about yards or TD's so much as his awful conversion rate. Most of his targets wind up on the ground. It's not an Andy problem because he's never struggled like that with anyone else.

(06-05-2019, 01:37 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: We drafted him to be the heir to AJ but he has under preformed his first two years. The number nine pick in the draft isn't picked to be a  wr3 no matter what you think. You don't become a wr1 by draft status you compete and take that title. Dalton has no trust in him so my bet is after this year he or Dalton are gone.

Look, I'm just saying that (a) there's no way he's going to start over Green or Boyd and (b) saying he's a total failure as a player unless he becomes a bonafide #1 is kinda silly. He can still be a good player and disappointing for where he was selected. These are not mutually exclusive.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-05-2019, 05:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For me it's not about yards or TD's so much as his awful conversion rate. Most of his targets wind up on the ground. It's not an Andy problem because he's never struggled like that with anyone else.


Look, I'm just saying that (a) there's no way he's going to start over Green or Boyd and (b) saying he's a total failure as a player unless he becomes a bonafide #1 is kinda silly. He can still be a good player and disappointing for where he was selected. These are not mutually exclusive.

Ross did have 7 drops, so that was a problem.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-05-2019, 05:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ross did have 7 drops, so that was a problem.

Well yeah, there's that too. I'm talking about 21 catches on 58 targets though. That means Dalton threw to him 58 times, and it was only completed 21 times (36.0%). That's more of a route running problem or an effort problem. The drops do play into that as well, but even if you count the drops as catches, he'd still be at 48% which is still bad. 

For comparison, Boyd caught 76 of 108 targets (70.4%) and Green caught 46 of 77 (59.7%).

[impactplaya]

(06-05-2019, 05:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well yeah, there's that too. I'm talking about 21 catches on 58 targets though. That means Dalton threw to him 58 times, and it was only completed 21 times (36.0%). That's more of a route running problem or an effort problem. The drops do play into that as well, but even if you count the drops as catches, he'd still be at 48% which is still bad. 

For comparison, Boyd caught 76 of 108 targets (70.4%) and Green caught 46 of 77 (59.7%).

wasnt there another QB last year that was throwing Ross?
what was his name..
Eddie Haskell.....Jeff Driskel....?
Driskel had the accuracy of a 6 year old urinating at a mall bathroom.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-05-2019, 05:54 PM)impactplaya Wrote: wasnt there another QB last year that was throwing Ross?
what was his name..
Eddie Haskell.....Jeff Driskel....?
Driskel had the accuracy of a 6 year old urinating at a mall bathroom.

Yet Boyd had a 70.4% completion rate?

[Destro]

Take the top off of the defenses. They do that if they respect the deep threat; you have to earn that respect. I'd be more scared of AJ, Boyd, Eifert and Mixon with the ball. Plus, keep having him race down the field and get no balls and he just may start taking plays off if he feels like he is not getting the ball.

[Catmandude123]

(06-05-2019, 05:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For me it's not about yards or TD's so much as his awful conversion rate. Most of his targets wind up on the ground. It's not an Andy problem because he's never struggled like that with anyone else.


Look, I'm just saying that (a) there's no way he's going to start over Green or Boyd and (b) saying he's a total failure as a player unless he becomes a bonafide #1 is kinda silly. He can still be a good player and disappointing for where he was selected. These are not mutually exclusive.

If he doesn't nail the next two years he won't be a Bengal. When a first rounder can' stay on the team for a full five years he is a bust . Saying he is a adequate player is a term for late rounders. Missing on so many first round picks is why the team is where it is now. 

[Bengalitis]

(06-05-2019, 09:00 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: If he doesn't nail the next two years he won't be a Bengal. When a first rounder can' stay on the team for a full five years he is a bust . Saying he is a adequate player is a term for late rounders. Missing on so many first round picks is why the team is where it is now. 

If Akili Ross doesn't produce in his first 4 games this season, he should be traded for some reliable LB or QB.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-05-2019, 09:51 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: If Akili Ross doesn't produce in his first 4 games this season, he should be traded for some reliable LB or QB.

If Akili Ross doesn't produce in his first 4 games this season, he won't have any trade value.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-05-2019, 05:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well yeah, there's that too. I'm talking about 21 catches on 58 targets though. That means Dalton threw to him 58 times, and it was only completed 21 times (36.0%). That's more of a route running problem or an effort problem. The drops do play into that as well, but even if you count the drops as catches, he'd still be at 48% which is still bad. 

For comparison, Boyd caught 76 of 108 targets (70.4%) and Green caught 46 of 77 (59.7%).

I'm sure that there are instances where route running and/or effort was poor, but I do recall a couple specific instances (at least) where Dalton was wildly off target. I don't know if I'd put all the blame on Ross. I think Dalton and Ross need to spend more time together in practice just themselves to get into rhythm.

Also, the further down field the throws are, the lower the completion percentage ends up being. Given most of Ross' targets were more downfield, it's expected that he will have a lower percentage of receptions per target.
For example:
Tyler Boyd's average target distance = 9.9 yards
AJ Green's average target distance = 13.6 yards
John Ross' average target distance = 14.6 yards