At what point are you OK with a total rebuild

[NKURyan]

Not sure I'm down for the whole "let's trade all our good players for a bunch of first round picks" strategy until I see the Bengals actually start getting some immediate contributions from their first rounders again. It's been awhile.

[BengalChris]

The lack of quality drafts lately has hurt the team and is why anyone would be talking rebuild. There's no replacements for Green, Dalton, Atkins or Dunlap on this roster. Maybe the closest might be Hubbard for Dunlap.

Even when we look at the better guys closing in on the end of their rookie deals there's no replacements on the team for them either. This would include Boyd, Mixon, Jackson. Are we going to re-sign these guys or take flyer on a rookie and hope for the best?

The team keeps drafting DTs and DEs in the early rounds, but never seems to get much. Guys like Still, Hunt, Thompson and Clarke were all 3rd round or higher DL picks that didn't go anywhere. Then there's that mess called the 2015 draft where not a single player is a starter anywhere in the league.

[Whatever]

(07-18-2019, 05:16 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The lack of quality drafts lately has hurt the team and is why anyone would be talking rebuild. There's no replacements for Green, Dalton, Atkins or Dunlap on this roster. Maybe the closest might be Hubbard for Dunlap.

Even when we look at the better guys closing in on the end of their rookie deals there's no replacements on the team for them either. This would include Boyd, Mixon, Jackson. Are we going to re-sign these guys or take flyer on a rookie and hope for the best?

The team keeps drafting DTs and DEs in the early rounds, but never seems to get much. Guys like Still, Hunt, Thompson and Clarke were all 3rd round or higher DL picks that didn't go anywhere. Then there's that mess called the 2015 draft where not a single player is a starter anywhere in the league.

Kroft is actually pencilled in as the Bills #1 TE.  Og has also been the Jag's 1st team RT through OTA's.

[BengalChris]

(07-18-2019, 05:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: Kroft is actually pencilled in as the Bills #1 TE.  Og has also been the Jag's 1st team RT through OTA's.

We'll see about Kroft. Ogbuehi only started during OTAs, but when you look up their depth chart he's a backup. We got a good look at Ogbuehi and he isn't a starter.

[*psychdoctor*]

I must say that two position groups are worrisome this year and beyond in the O-Line and backers. I cannot see the team performing above average expectations this year and making the playoffs. As long as they do not draft a player in the first round, who gets injured or has injury history, then maybe they can improve.

Mixon, Price, WJ3, and Boyd are the "new core" group. Bengals will draft a new QB next year fairly high in the draft. I think the new re-build will begin in 2020 - 2021. They have to start with a franchise QB, then build the trenches. They must do better in signing free agents and hope one of the UDFA college players surprise. Fromm could be their next QB or maybe Herbert. I think Dalton will finish his contract then move on.

[fredtoast]

(07-18-2019, 05:16 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The team keeps drafting DTs and DEs in the early rounds, but never seems to get much.

2017...Lawson leads all rookies in sacks.

2018...Hubbard leads all rookie D-linemen in sacks and is 3rd in tackles despite playing less than half of the defensive snaps.

[fredtoast]

(07-18-2019, 05:52 PM)BengalChris Wrote:  We got a good look at Ogbuehi and he isn't a starter.

Not really trying to defend Ogbuehi, but that is exactly what you said about Bodine and he won the starting job in Buffalo.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-18-2019, 05:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: Kroft is actually pencilled in as the Bills #1 TE.  Og has also been the Jag's 1st team RT through OTA's.

You mean this Tyler Kroft, the one that went down with a broken foot in the first week of OTAs?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/05/21/tyler-kroft-expected-miss-3-4-months-broken-foot/3753010002/


He's not even going to be available until October.

[Catmandude123]

(07-18-2019, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just curious but what do you think the odds are of drafting a DT better than Geno or a WR better than Green?

AJ and Geno are players who come along every decade or so but even they start to fade with age. AJ has had trouble staying healthy, Geno has disappeared for a while during the 2018, Dunlap's production fell off after signing his new contract, AD is a middling QB who will want more money than the team friendly deal he signed a few years back. Add Dre to this group and it is obvious that the core of our highest paid players are entering the twilight of their careers. Maybe the new coach and a new team attitude will rejuvenate these players but if they don't turn around in 2019 the writing is on the wall.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

This team under its current management model, neither builds or rebuilds. It just exists. If they run a few good drafts in a row they are average to good. If they have a few weak drafts in a row they are below average. Getting a new QB means little if the team overall is not actually committed to winning. Mike Brown saying he wants to win is like a guy who says he cares about his sister even though he has not talked to her in 30 years. It is just talk. We do not have the management structure to build a consistent winning team.

This team is RC Cola while the good teams are Coke and Pepsi.

[*psychdoctor*]

(07-18-2019, 07:47 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: This team under its current management model, neither builds or rebuilds. It just exists. If they run a few good drafts in a row they are average to good. If they have a few weak drafts in a row they are below average. Getting a new QB means little if the team overall is not actually committed to winning. Mike Brown saying he wants to win is like a guy who says he cares about his sister even though he has not talked to her in 30 years. It is just talk. We do not have the management structure to build a consistent winning team.

This team is RC Cola while the good teams are Coke and Pepsi.

It would seem to most fans your opinion is correct.  Building a winning franchise in the NFL is not easy but some teams have better scouting, facilities, management to produce champions.  Bengals are not there yet and I know some others with myself have suffered since the 1990's.  

But things changed over the past season.  New Management paradigm, Direction, Coaching staff.  I would feel better about the upcoming season if the first rounder did not get injured before the season started.  Real downer for me.  Also, I wish Taylor had his first choice of DC and OC.  I do not know if Turner was his first choice, but it was a comfortable choice as he likes people he worked with in the past.  

Remember, Marvin Lewis came in and changed the culture of a laughing stock of a franchise and made the team respectable and post-season bound.  Lewis was not given the power to hire his own assistants or OC or DC, at least not initially.  Lewis had to tolerate the likes of Paul Alexander and Bratkowski. 

Things have changed this year in Bengal land but more changes will come and hopefully make the Franchise not only competitive but feared opponent.  

[SunsetBengal]

(07-18-2019, 08:05 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: It would seem to most fans your opinion is correct.  Building a winning franchise in the NFL is not easy but some teams have better scouting, facilities, management to produce champions.  Bengals are not there yet and I know some others with myself have suffered since the 1990's.  

But things changed over the past season.  New Management paradigm, Direction, Coaching staff.  I would feel better about the upcoming season if the first rounder did not get injured before the season started.  Real downer for me.  Also, I wish Taylor had his first choice of DC and OC.  I do not know if Turner was his first choice, but it was a comfortable choice as he likes people he worked with in the past.  

Remember, Marvin Lewis came in and changed the culture of a laughing stock of a franchise and made the team respectable and post-season bound.  Lewis was not given the power to hire his own assistants or OC or DC, at least not initially.  Lewis had to tolerate the likes of Paul Alexander and Bratkowski. 

Things have changed this year in Bengal land but more changes will come and hopefully make the Franchise not only competitive but feared opponent.  

I agree.  Nice post!   :andy:

[Whatever]

(07-18-2019, 06:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You mean this Tyler Kroft, the one that went down with a broken foot in the first week of OTAs?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/05/21/tyler-kroft-expected-miss-3-4-months-broken-foot/3753010002/


He's not even going to be available until October.

That's my bad, I guess.  I saw him listed at #1 on their depth chart, but didn't know he was out injured again.

[BengalChris]

(07-18-2019, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not really trying to defend Ogbuehi, but that is exactly what you said about Bodine and he won the starting job in Buffalo.

I believe that was temporary. Someone else is their starter now, I believe.

However, you are correct. I did say that about Bodine.

[BengalChris]

(07-18-2019, 06:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2017...Lawson leads all rookies in sacks.

2018...Hubbard leads all rookie D-linemen in sacks and is 3rd in tackles despite playing less than half of the defensive snaps.

I was more referring to the drafting before the last two seasons. Those several years of misses on the DL meant we had to spend higher picks later on the DL and taking away from what we could have gotten for other positions.

[Whatever]

(07-18-2019, 10:26 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I believe that was temporary. Someone else is their starter now, I believe.

However, you are correct. I did say that about Bodine.

He won the starting job last year, but broke his leg and has been unable to participate in OTA's.  They signed another C in the meantime and he will probably be the backup.

[Murdock2420]

(07-18-2019, 11:23 AM)Wyche Wrote: I don't care what they do......just do what it takes to get Lawrence in 2021. :andy:

Looks like the real deal and looks good in orange. That's a win/win.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(07-18-2019, 08:05 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: It would seem to most fans your opinion is correct.  Building a winning franchise in the NFL is not easy but some teams have better scouting, facilities, management to produce champions.  Bengals are not there yet and I know some others with myself have suffered since the 1990's.  

But things changed over the past season.  New Management paradigm, Direction, Coaching staff.  I would feel better about the upcoming season if the first rounder did not get injured before the season started.  Real downer for me.  Also, I wish Taylor had his first choice of DC and OC.  I do not know if Turner was his first choice, but it was a comfortable choice as he likes people he worked with in the past.  

Remember, Marvin Lewis came in and changed the culture of a laughing stock of a franchise and made the team respectable and post-season bound.  Lewis was not given the power to hire his own assistants or OC or DC, at least not initially.  Lewis had to tolerate the likes of Paul Alexander and Bratkowski. 

Things have changed this year in Bengal land but more changes will come and hopefully make the Franchise not only competitive but feared opponent.  

ZT deserves a legitimate shot to at least chnage the coaching culture but the management of the team has not changed in any way.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(07-18-2019, 01:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Do we trust Tobin with a rebuild?

The guy who's drafted 1 probowler since 2013 (or whenever we draft Eifert).....

This^^^^^^  Tobin is a dinosaur in a league thats been changing right in front of him.  The john ross pick was it for me and i was about done prior to that.  Ive washed my hands with tobin.  i hope he is on the train that final takes mike brown and company out of town.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2019, 11:33 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: This^^^^^^  Tobin is a dinosaur in a league thats been changing right in front of him.  The john ross pick was it for me and i was about done prior to that.  Ive washed my hands with tobin.  i hope he is on the train that final takes mike brown and company out of town.

2017....Lawson leads all rookies in sacks.  Also drafts Joe Mixon who leads the conference in rushing in 2018.

2018....Bates leads all rookie DBs in tackles and is 3rd in ints.  Hubbard leads all rookie D-linemen in sacks and is third in tackles despite playing less than half of the defensive snaps.