At what point are you OK with a total rebuild

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-22-2019, 08:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Made me feel much better about Line and the team as a whole SHRacer, thanks man, great post.

Hope this all comes to fruition, it is a possibility.

I am so excited about the unknown of our new coaches.  It may not turn out as I think it will (10-6) or even close to it, but I am excited at what I know it won't be:  Boring, predictable Marv.  

[Luvnit2]

(07-22-2019, 06:34 PM)bengals67 Wrote: this is a three year project by Taylor. He inherited one of the worst o lines and LB groups in the league.

we are already in re-build mode.

If I were AJ I or Tyler would go to the Pats or another genuine contender next year. 

They have no chance of seeing a Super Bowl playing for Bengals with potential roster for next 2 to 3 years.

He inherited about same team ML was expected to win with in 2018 by the fans in this forum???

[THE PISTONS]

(07-22-2019, 10:22 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am so excited about the unknown of our new coaches.  It may not turn out as I think it will (10-6) or even close to it, but I am excited at what I know it won't be:  Boring, predictable Marv.  

I think that is a big plus for the year. The offense and defense will be different. It gets boring seeing the same plays over and over and over for years.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-22-2019, 10:20 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I was always the eternal optimist.  However, I have even greater enthusiasm now because every time I would get excited about talent, or something, in the back of my mind I would always hear:  "It's still Marv".  No longer.  

So we know we have the high-end talent in Mixon, Atkins, Green, Boyd, Dunlap, etc. Maybe Bates and Jackson too join that list.

To win in the NFL, you need to minimize how many bad starters you have. IF we can even get average production from offensive line and LB, we will have a good year. IF we don't, well then we likely win 6-7 games.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-22-2019, 10:54 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: He inherited about same team ML was expected to win with in 2018 by the fans in this forum???

OL and LBs were still expected to be poor areas last season, and it proved to be true.


But in regards to a total rebuild, it isn't absolutely necessary right now. The Bengals, if healthy, can find ways to put up points and win games. They will need Dalton, Green, Eifert, Glenn, and Hart healthy for the offense. They will need Dunlap, Atkins, Lawson, Brown, WJ3, and Bates healthy on the defense.

If this team can get above .500 this year, I really hope they go "all in" for 2020 because Dunlap, Atkins, and Green don't have many more years left at their current level. 

[XenoMorph]

(07-22-2019, 05:17 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I wish I had your hope, I just have a bad feeling this line is going to be the issue all season long. Dalton like most QB's doesn't do well with pressure and the revolving door at RT is going to be an issue. 

I hope I am wrong, but right now it is just hard to be excited when the biggest area of need is still a big area of need.

I believe in the past Dalton has been one of the better QBs vs pressure... But id have to go look up stats..

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-22-2019, 10:22 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am so excited about the unknown of our new coaches.  It may not turn out as I think it will (10-6) or even close to it, but I am excited at what I know it won't be:  Boring, predictable Marv.  

Same here, atleast we won't have that stale feeling around here. Plus if the O-line pans out the way you are saying 10-6 shouldn't be that far from attaining. We won 6 games last year with that stale feeling, being decimated by injuries, with a bad O-line and the worst LB coach and LB's in the league. I was saying 11-5 before Jonah got hurt but who knows how well Jonah would of played at LT as a rookie anyways and Glenn is a veteran who was injured last season. He could play much better this season.

I think the Defense should be much better this season with our new Linebacker coach and Pratt.

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2019, 10:22 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am excited at what I know it won't be:  Boring, predictable Marv.  

(07-23-2019, 09:38 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think that is a big plus for the year. The offense and defense will be different. It gets boring seeing the same plays over and over and over for years.

Was it just 3 years ago everyone was crying about how Hue's offense was "too wild and crazy" and the team needed to just "get back to basics"?

[NKURyan]

(07-23-2019, 01:07 PM)fredtoast: Wrote: Was it just 3 years ago everyone was crying about how Hue's offense was "too wild and crazy" and the team needed to just "get back to basics"?

People were complaining about Hue's offense? I don't recall that happening at all... my recollection is that people were ready to make him head coach after 2015.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-23-2019, 01:14 PM)NKURyan Wrote: People were complaining about Hue's offense? I don't recall that happening at all... my recollection is that people were ready to make him head coach after 2015.

Yeah people loved Hue as OC in general.

Guenther is a guy that took a lot of flack. After seeing Austin wreck the defense, it appears Guenther was much better than people thought.

[NKURyan]

(07-23-2019, 01:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah people loved Hue as OC in general.

Guenther is a guy that took a lot of flack. After seeing Austin wreck the defense, it appears Guenther was much better than people thought.

Guenther stepped in for a guy that people idolized in Zimmer, so he was never going to get a far shake IMO.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-23-2019, 09:38 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think that is a big plus for the year. The offense and defense will be different. It gets boring seeing the same plays over and over and over for years.

Yeah, especially when the defense knows what's coming 


Seriously, look at the turnaround by the Falcons, Bears, Rams, and Eagles (three of which went to Super Bowls) after they got rid of their version of Marv.  It is a young, creative minds game.

And spare me the Belichek talk....I know he isn't young.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-23-2019, 09:40 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So we know we have the high-end talent in Mixon, Atkins, Green, Boyd, Dunlap, etc. Maybe Bates and Jackson too join that list.

To win in the NFL, you need to minimize how many bad starters you have. IF we can even get average production from offensive line and LB, we will have a good year. IF we don't, well then we likely win 6-7 games.

Good point.  Like in baseball, you can't have too many holes in your lineup.  I think a better scheme on defense makes a huge difference for the LB corps and between a Jordan Evans (who did improve last year), a healthy Preston Brown, a healthy Nick Vigil, and a group of young unknowns (Pratt, Davis, Jefferson) they can be at least average.  I still wonder if there isn't a late cut that will be added to the roster here.

The offensive line is the one that is now paper thin in terms of depth, and I would rather not wait for an injury to address that.  Moving Gio for Sanbrailo makes a lot of sense, although I really like Gio and want to see him used in this offense.  

Those are, by far, our most debatable weaknesses.  The back end of our defense could be lethal if the pass rush improves.  The skill positions you mentioned are there and they aren't rookies we are counting on.  

It is just so much more fun thinking about what it will look like with all new coaches.  

[*jason*]

(07-23-2019, 01:14 PM)NKURyan Wrote: People were complaining about Hue's offense? I don't recall that happening at all... my recollection is that people were ready to make him head coach after 2015.

He was always well thought of before he was destroyed in Cleveland... The most I can remember is people complained about his gimmicky formations, and gadget plays. Hopefully Hue learned his lesson about messing with dysfunctional organizations. They have wrecked his career.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-23-2019, 01:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Was it just 3 years ago everyone was crying about how Hue's offense was "too wild and crazy" and the team needed to just "get back to basics"?

I wasn't in that everyone.  In fact, you might have recently seen where I have said that the only times Dalton has had a good OC (Hue and Gruden), he made the playoffs every time.  And I doubt anyone was saying that when they were 8-0 and Dalton was being mentioned as a league MVP candidate.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-23-2019, 02:14 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I wasn't in that everyone.  In fact, you might have recently seen where I have said that the only times Dalton has had a good OC (Hue and Gruden), he made the playoffs every time.  And I doubt anyone was saying that when they were 8-0 and Dalton was being mentioned as a league MVP candidate.  

It wasn't "everyone", there were a few, to be sure, but most of us understood that Hue was good at creating mismatches with movement.  That was especially true in 2014 when a lot of skill position players got injured.  I like Hue as an OC, and I'm not sold he got a fair shake in Oakland, or Cleveland for that matter......but he did botch the Mayfield deal up there.  That said, I didn't want him as the HC after the debacle in Cleveland.  I was all for him after 2015.

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2019, 04:16 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: We've done the same thing over and over and over and have no playoff wins or championships to show for it. So, it one thing doesn't work after all these years, at some point you have to try a new approach. 

We already tried taking a QB number one overall.

According to your logic we should not try again.

[Murdock2420]

(07-23-2019, 05:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We already tried taking a QB number one overall.

According to your logic we should not try again.

We tried it once, versus the status quo stuff for 23 years....

So yeah, I'd go with the first round QB route again over the 23 more years of being beaten by the Steelers over and over and not winning a single playoff game....

Our first round QB was the answer until his leg was shredded in the playoffs. I'd love to have that level of excitement and hope again.

[NKURyan]

(07-23-2019, 05:50 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Our first round QB was the answer until his leg was shredded in the playoffs. I'd love to have that level of excitement and hope again.

I was more excited about the 2015 Bengals, who were a complete team before Andy got hurt, than I was for the 2005 Bengals, who had a defense that could cause turnovers and not do much else. The '15 squad seemed destined for bigger things than the '05 team to me... until their second round QB's hand was shredded.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-23-2019, 05:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: It wasn't "everyone", there were a few, to be sure, but most of us understood that Hue was good at creating mismatches with movement.  That was especially true in 2014 when a lot of skill position players got injured.  I like Hue as an OC, and I'm not sold he got a fair shake in Oakland, or Cleveland for that matter......but he did botch the Mayfield deal up there.  That said, I didn't want him as the HC after the debacle in Cleveland.  I was all for him after 2015.

My thoughts exactly.  I have no idea why there was so much venom for him from Cleveland.  He took the fall when they traded off ALL their talent for draft picks.  Now that those picks are paying off, he is the devil?   I don't get it, but I agree that I didn't want him as HC, either.  I hope he gets another shot somewhere as an OC.  Maybe Buffalo...they seem to like ex-Bengals