Dalton's make or break year

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-24-2019, 03:30 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That was a regular Sunday afternoon game...

How many NFL fans that aren't Bengals fans do you think even know about that game?

Oh, you mean I have to find one from the PrimeTime.........the bane of Marvin Lewis.  He DID bring us back against ARZ in prime time, only to have the defense shit the bed.  There was Baltimore last season, Cleveland 2015, a few others, I've looked em up before, but I'm frankly too lazy to do it anymore.  Shake used to have the stats in his sig, the PrimeTime thing became a disproved narrative.  In the beginning, it absolutely was a thing, but as the years went on, he became better and better, and has even had some decent to good games in PrimeTime when we've lost.

Fact remains, he won us that football game when everything was falling apart around him.....and what about 2014?  Players were literally falling apart, and he still got us to 10 W's.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-24-2019, 03:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nothing sad about it. You do realize that 230 yards + 2 TDs + 86.4 rating is a solid performance in a Steelers division game...right? We also don't win that Broncos game without several key plays from Dalton.

Also, good job ignoring the other - better - examples.


Bro those were prime-time games that I listed. None of those would've been W's without Dalton's performance.

Not sure why you're ignoring factual evidence. You asked for examples of Dalton willing us to victory in prime-time and I provided (at least) 3 good examples.

4 TD's against the Ravens not good enough for ya?

Ravens game from last year was all in the first half. It was a really good game and i enjoyed it immensely. 

Eight years in and he's still in the mid tiers of QBs, by any measurement. Good guy, good QB. But not someone that you are going to be relying on to lead you to a championship. If people are content with middle-of-the-road, good on 'em. 

I'm still Ed Bassmaster at the car lot. 

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2019, 03:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If people are content with middle-of-the-road, good on 'em. 

How exactly is 10-2 with the #4 scoring offense in the league "middle of the road"?

[Shake n Blake]

(07-24-2019, 03:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ravens game from last year was all in the first half. It was a really good game and i enjoyed it immensely. 

Eight years in and he's still in the mid tiers of QBs, by any measurement. Good guy, good QB. But not someone that you are going to be relying on to lead you to a championship. If people are content with middle-of-the-road, good on 'em. 

I'm still Ed Bassmaster at the car lot. 

Now you're getting into a different debate. I was only disproving the notion that Dalton has never been great in prime-time, or that we should use prime-time wins as any kind of judgement when Marvin Lewis was Andy's coach. 

As to the Ravens game, he threw 4 TD's in the first half of a prime-time game against a playoff opponent, then we cruise controlled the rest of the way for a W. Not sure why that shouldn't count. Dalton has thoroughly owned the Ravens for 8 years. We'll see if that was more Marvin or Andy. Just as we'll see in due time if prime-time was Andy or Marv.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(07-24-2019, 03:43 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Oh, you mean I have to find one from the PrimeTime.........the bane of Marvin Lewis.  He DID bring us back against ARZ in prime time, only to have the defense shit the bed.  There was Baltimore last season, Cleveland 2015, a few others, I've looked em up before, but I'm frankly too lazy to do it anymore.  Shake used to have the stats in his sig, the PrimeTime thing became a disproved narrative.  In the beginning, it absolutely was a thing, but as the years went on, he became better and better, and has even had some decent to good games in PrimeTime when we've lost.

Fact remains, he won us that football game when everything was falling apart around him.....and what about 2014?  Players were literally falling apart, and he still got us to 10 W's.

He had the opportunity to win us the game against Arizona in 2015. Only to choke on the last drive. We lost that game. We are using games in which we lost to sample Dalton being great in prime time. 9 years in and we are discussing this has a make a break year. That says a lot.

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2019, 04:23 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: He had the opportunity to win us the game against Arizona in 2015.  Only to choke on the last drive.   We lost that game.  We are using games in which we lost to sample Dalton being great in prime time.   

Dalton does not play defense.

Only a Bengal fan would shit on his QB for driving his team 59 yards in under two minutes to tie the game on the road against the number one defense in the league with less than a minute left on the game.

[impactplaya]

I think Andy is very good QB when hes on and his offense is at full strength.
at times he can play like a Tier 1 QB.
He's had a revolving door of OCs.
who ironically are no longer OCs in the NFL.
thats not helped him.
hes not like hes been married to one system his whole career.
hes had to change and adapt the best he can.
I think 20 25 years a team could have a better than average QB and still
have a legit chance at title game or Super Bowl.
a running game and stout defense to help propel a team into Janurary.
now days you need a franchise QB who is really special to advance
in the playoffs.
he has to be better than good.
good isnt good enough in this day and age.
hes gonna to be 32.
its safe to say hes reached his ceiling
i think hes capable of winning in the playoffs.
but he cant carry this team on his shoulders.
hes needs help from other phases.
one thing I dont like about him is that......
hes a bit reserved and you have to wonder if the ZERO playoff wins
really bothers him and the 3 straight non playoff years.
at least voice some frustration.
some passion.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(07-24-2019, 04:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton does not play defense.

Only a Bengal fan would shit on his QB for driving his team 59 yards in under two minutes to tie the game on the road against the number one defense in the league with less than a minute left on the game.

Are you still sticking to Dalton producing game “Winning” drives to a drive in which he tied the game only to lose the game . Lol. Awesome example.

[Tiger Teeth]

This thread and it's direction are quite frankly making me sick to my stomach. Reminds me of the times from the old board when it was "haters" versus "homers". Why are we arguing about our QB, and nitpicking each others posts? We're supposed to be all Bengal fans here, remember?

[Chezaugie]

(07-24-2019, 07:51 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: This thread and it's direction are quite frankly making me sick to my stomach.  Reminds me of the times from the old board when it was "haters" versus "homers".  Why are we arguing about our QB, and nitpicking each others posts?  We're supposed to be all Bengal fans here, remember?

As the creator of this thread, I agree. I found an interesting article as food for thought and posted for informational purposes. Now, this thread has degenerated into hateful posts on who is right and who is wrong about Andy Dalton.

All I can say is, give it a rest. Like it or not, Andy Dalton is the Cincinnati Bengals starting quarterback for 2019.

Go Bengals!

[Tiger Teeth]

(07-24-2019, 08:02 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: As the creator of this thread, I agree. I found an interesting article as food for thought and posted for informational purposes. Now, this thread has degenerated into hateful posts on who is right and who is wrong about Andy Dalton.

All I can say is, give it a rest. Like it or not, Andy Dalton is the Cincinnati Bengals starting quarterback for 2019.

Go Bengals!

Well said.  And it's not your fault people chose this path of discussion.  Dalton is going to be our QB, with another sub par OL, we should get behind him.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-24-2019, 04:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: driving his team 59 yards in under two minutes to tie the game 

See, now you're touching on the crux of what i'm talking about. 

Drove the team to tie. He had the chance to drive the team for a TD and the lead but he was only able to get the FG attempt. 

On that last drive he was 3-6 for 48 yards. On the drive just before that, he led the team down the field and threw a TD to Eifert. On the final drive, after an outlet to Gio went for 30 he, missed AJ on the right, made MJ adjust on a catch and not be able to make a move, and then missed AJ on the right again which looked like a spectacular TD for just a second. 

That's exactly what i'm saying. Put on the spot, he came up just short. 

[Shake n Blake]

(07-24-2019, 09:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: See, now you're touching on the crux of what i'm talking about. 

Drove the team to tie. He had the chance to drive the team for a TD and the lead but he was only able to get the FG attempt. 

On that last drive he was 3-6 for 48 yards. On the drive just before that, he led the team down the field and threw a TD to Eifert. On the final drive, after an outlet to Gio went for 30 he, missed AJ on the right, made MJ adjust on a catch and not be able to make a move, and then missed AJ on the right again which looked like a spectacular TD for just a second. 

That's exactly what i'm saying. Put on the spot, he came up just short. 

So you're looking for a clutch 4th quarter game winning drive in a prime-time win. 

Seeing how we were cursed in PT under Marvin and only won like 7 (estimate) such games from 2011-2018, I'm not sure it says much that Dalton didn't have any heroic last minute drives in such a small sample of games. 

Yeah he came up short a few times. Everybody came up short in prime-time. That's why we sucked in PT for 16 years.

Let me ask a question and I'm not being snotty. Did you feel the same about Palmer? Because his PT track record was no better. How many heroic drives did he have in prime-time?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-25-2019, 12:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you're looking for a clutch 4th quarter game winning drive in a prime-time win. 

Seeing how we were cursed in PT under Marvin and only won like 7 (estimate) such games from 2011-2018, I'm not sure it says much that Dalton didn't have any heroic last minute drives in such a small sample of games. 

Yeah he came up short a few times. Everybody came up short in prime-time. That's why we sucked in PT for 16 years.

Let me ask a question and I'm not being snotty. Did you feel the same about Palmer? Because his PT track record was no better. How many heroic drives did he have in prime-time?

None of that counts.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-24-2019, 04:23 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: He had the opportunity to win us the game against Arizona in 2015.  Only to choke on the last drive.   We lost that game.  We are using games in which we lost to sample Dalton being great in prime time.   9 years in and we are discussing this has a make a break year.  That says a lot.

ARZ kicked a FG with 2 seconds left....not sure how he choked on the last drive......was he playing D that series?  

[*PhilHos*]

Can someone tell me of another QB in NFL history that was a starter for 7+ seasons with a winning record during that time span that was considered a below average QB?

[Shake n Blake]

(07-25-2019, 12:16 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Can someone tell me of another QB in NFL history that was a starter for 7+ seasons with a winning record during that time span that was considered a below average QB?

Bobby Hebert? He started for 7 seasons, had a 56-44 record, and was equally terrible in the playoffs. He also had the misfortune of playing for Jim Mora, whose playoff failures are exceeded only by Marvin Lewis.

Essentially, Hebert = Dalton and Mora = Marv. Unfortunately, Hebert never made the playoffs after he and Mora split. Mora made the playoffs 2 more times with Peyton's Colts and went 0-2. This is when Peyton was developing a reputation as a "playoff choker".

It seems like fans never learn. They've always blamed the QB. Even when Mora had a terrible track record.

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2019, 09:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: See, now you're touching on the crux of what i'm talking about. 

Drove the team to tie. He had the chance to drive the team for a TD and the lead but he was only able to get the FG attempt. 

On that last drive he was 3-6 for 48 yards. On the drive just before that, he led the team down the field and threw a TD to Eifert. On the final drive, after an outlet to Gio went for 30 he, missed AJ on the right, made MJ adjust on a catch and not be able to make a move, and then missed AJ on the right again which looked like a spectacular TD for just a second. 

That's exactly what i'm saying. Put on the spot, he came up just short. 

Now you are touching on the crux of what I am talking about

Dalton did not come up short.  The defense did.  The Bengals were no losing after Dalton had his final shot.  So you can't blame him for the loss.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-25-2019, 12:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you're looking for a clutch 4th quarter game winning drive in a prime-time win. 

Seeing how we were cursed in PT under Marvin and only won like 7 (estimate) such games from 2011-2018, I'm not sure it says much that Dalton didn't have any heroic last minute drives in such a small sample of games. 

Yeah he came up short a few times. Everybody came up short in prime-time. That's why we sucked in PT for 16 years.

Let me ask a question and I'm not being snotty. Did you feel the same about Palmer? Because his PT track record was no better. How many heroic drives did he have in prime-time?

Off the top of my head, nothing comes to mind but i'll check later on when i get time.

EDIT: He was, at one point, considered a top 3 QB though. Bit of a different comparison.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-25-2019, 02:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Now you are touching on the crux of what I am talking about

Dalton did not come up short.  The defense did.  The Bengals were no losing after Dalton had his final shot.  So you can't blame him for the loss.

So...i wasn't clear on the point that he could have driven them down the field for a leading TD instead of a tying FG?