Dalton's make or break year

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-31-2019, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  

This is getting hilarious.

First he "never did it even once".  Then when it was pointed out that he had done it you claim "a game or two" won't do it.

But for some reason you are unable to come up with more than "a game or two" for all the QBs you claim to be great.  Why do you even have to do any research?  If good QBs are defined by great prime time performances then right off the top of your head you should be able to list the defining games for each great QB.

He hasn't done what i asked, even once.

A great half, or a good game once or twice won't move the needle. 

You old farts really have a hard time keeping up. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-31-2019, 01:44 PM)PhilHos Wrote: My apologies. You made it seem like it was a bad thing. 

No he didn't. Not in the least.

You assumed he did.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-31-2019, 01:47 PM)PhilHos Wrote: According to https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00/splits/, 4th QTR is Dalton's worst (82.8 QB rating) and the 1st QTR is his best (96.0 QB rating).

Not surprising.

[fredtoast]

(07-31-2019, 02:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He hasn't done what i asked, even once.

So a 4 td game against the #1 defense in the league does not count?

[fredtoast]

(07-31-2019, 01:57 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Not JUST prime time games (there you go again). Higher profile games. 

That should be self-evident.

So do regular season games against teams that win Division Championships count?

Nothing is self evident with you.

[fredtoast]

(07-31-2019, 02:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You old farts really have a hard time keeping up. 

Your the one whose memory is so bad you can not recall the games that define which QBs are among the best.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-31-2019, 01:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Why are you just assuming he thinks it's bad? Hint: He's not.

Yeah, I know. I acknowledged that already. Even apologized.

(07-31-2019, 01:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think it's that whole 'lack of attention' problem.

Who says the guy who doesn't see that I acknowledged that I was wrong in assuming he thought it was bad.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-31-2019, 02:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A great half, or a good game once or twice won't move the needle. 

How about 4 good games?

(07-24-2019, 03:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 3. Even still, there ARE some examples:

- 280 yards + 1 TD + 81.7 rating vs Steelers
- 146 yards + 2 TDs + 93.7 rating vs Broncos (stats weren't great, but he had several key throws/runs in that game, sans AJ Green)
- 234 yards + 3 TDs + 139.8 rating vs Browns (yeah people won't count it "cuz Browns", yet they count 2.0 vs Browns)
- 296 yards + 1 TD + 111.8 rating vs playoff Dolphins team 
- 265 yards + 4 TDs + 107.7 rating vs Ravens

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-31-2019, 03:47 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Who says the guy who doesn't see that I acknowledged that I was wrong in assuming he thought it was bad.

It's not a lack of attention if i hadn't read that post yet. 

[Socal Bengals fan]

Dalton threw an amazing duck today that was picked off by Bates. Good times ahead.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-31-2019, 06:01 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Dalton threw an amazing duck today that was picked off by Bates. Good times ahead.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease tell me you're joking/trolling.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-31-2019, 01:15 PM)PhilHos Wrote: False; Marvin Lewis, AJ Green, Bill Belicheck, and Bill Polian just to name a few have all said he's a good QB.

AJ and Marvin? Really? Why not just include Dalton’s wife too? Lol

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2019, 10:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: AJ and Marvin? Really? Why not just include Dalton’s wife too? Lol

Because Dalton's wife is not involved in professional football (and schtuping an NFL QB doesn't count). Duh.

[wolverine515151]

It's meaningless to argue with these defenders because they'll come up with all kinds of insane arguments to defend their positions on Dalton. The facts are overwhelming that Dalton is a below average qb.

Someone mentioned it isn't fair to rank Dalton with the other starters because it's like looking in a vacuum. That is an extremely clownish argument.

We have categories in football for everything. We have receivers yards, receivers yards per play, receiving td's, rushing yards, rushing yards per play, rushing td's, tackles and interceptions.

It isn't looking at it in a vacuum to see where Dalton ranks every year among the starters. It's called a category, get used to it! We use categories all over this world to group similar things and see where they rank.

That being said, every year they rank the starting 32 qb's based on their qb rating, Dalton has had 1 good season 3 average and 4 below average seasons based on those rankings.

This ranking is unfair because it gives equal value to regular season and playoff games. We all know playoff games should count a minimum of 2  regular season games. So Dalton's rankings would be worse if it were ranked fairly.

Some would point to his total yards he's thrown in his career to indicate he's a good qb, well that just means he's started every game of his career, never been benched due to bad play, and stayed mostly injury free. On top of that we have thrown the ball much more than we should have. We've been a pass first team instead of a run first team.

Furthermore the total yards and yards per throw are built into the qb rating. There is no need to extract individual statistics from the qb rating when it is summarized in one package. That's the whole point of the qb rating;  Use one number to rank a qb instead of having to argue about each of the qb's individual stats.

Lets look at important games in his career to see if he's clutch.

Dalton has a 55 qb rating in the playoffs.

He has a 67 qb rating in prime time games.

During the regular season he has a 96 qb rating in the first quarter and a 82 qb rating in the 4th quarter.

These things tells us that he gets worse when it's an important game or the game is on the line. Irregardless if he has staged a few 4th quarter comebacks his overall qb rating gets worse in the 4th quarter.

The bottom line is this, Dalton is a below average qb and a total choke artist. He's as bad as Greg Norman the golfer who used to choke in golf majors.

Dalton was probably close to a top 15 qb a few years ago, now he is comfortably below average. He isn't sniffing a top 15 qb in the league in any way shape or form.

Well run organizations dump bad qb's while we hold on to Dalton and continue to make excuses for him.

Flacco wins a Superbowl with the Ravens, and when he gets older, shows declining skills, they draft a first round qb in Jackson and send him packing the next year. Dalton is a similar qb to Flacco, has not sniffed a playoff win, and we want to keep him!

The Jaguars had seen enough of Bortle's below average play and sent him packing.

Most teams, other than the Bengals, would not keep Dalton.

He ranked 26 out of 32 starters last year in qb rating. That isn't close to a top 15 qb.

The good new is our new coach has no ties to Dalton like Lewis did. Dalton won't get a long leash like he had with Lewis. If Dalton doesn't win a playoff game this year he's gone.

So stop making excuses for Dalton. It's always someone else's fault and not his. It's the offensive line, the injuries, the receivers not catching balls or the coaches. When will you excuse makers understand it isn't everyone else's fault for Dalton's bad play, it's Dalton himself!!

[*PhilHos*]

(08-02-2019, 04:16 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: It's meaningless to argue with these defenders because they'll come up with all kinds of insane arguments to defend their positions on Dalton. The facts are overwhelming that Dalton is a below average qb.

False. Facts supports just the opposite.

Dalton has a winning record (and not a barely above .500 winning record either) in 8 seasons as a starter = above average QB.
Dalton is 26th (IIRC) in NFL History in game winning drives and is 8th amongst active QBs = above average QB.
QB rating and other seasonal stats as a whole show that Dalton is an, at worst, average QB.

Facts show that Dalton is average-to-above-average. The only way you can claim Dalton is below average is to do Mary Lou Retton style mental gymnastics and twist stats to make him seem worse than he is.

The only "below average QB" statement that is factual about Dalton is to say that he's a below average PLAYOFF QB (and below average is putting it nicely).

[The Caped Crusader]

(08-02-2019, 04:16 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: It's meaningless to argue with these defenders because they'll come up with all kinds of insane arguments to defend their positions on Dalton. The facts are overwhelming that Dalton is a below average qb.

Someone mentioned it isn't fair to rank Dalton with the other starters because it's like looking in a vacuum. That is an extremely clownish argument.

We have categories in football for everything. We have receivers yards, receivers yards per play, receiving td's, rushing yards, rushing yards per play, rushing td's, tackles and interceptions.

It isn't looking at it in a vacuum to see where Dalton ranks every year among the starters. It's called a category, get used to it! We use categories all over this world to group similar things and see where they rank.

That being said, every year they rank the starting 32 qb's based on their qb rating, Dalton has had 1 good season 3 average and 4 below average seasons based on those rankings.

This ranking is unfair because it gives equal value to regular season and playoff games. We all know playoff games should count a minimum of 2  regular season games. So Dalton's rankings would be worse if it were ranked fairly.

Some would point to his total yards he's thrown in his career to indicate he's a good qb, well that just means he's started every game of his career, never been benched due to bad play, and stayed mostly injury free. On top of that we have thrown the ball much more than we should have. We've been a pass first team instead of a run first team.

Furthermore the total yards and yards per throw are built into the qb rating. There is no need to extract individual statistics from the qb rating when it is summarized in one package. That's the whole point of the qb rating;  Use one number to rank a qb instead of having to argue about each of the qb's individual stats.

Lets look at important games in his career to see if he's clutch.

Dalton has a 55 qb rating in the playoffs.

He has a 67 qb rating in prime time games.

During the regular season he has a 96 qb rating in the first quarter and a 82 qb rating in the 4th quarter.

These things tells us that he gets worse when it's an important game or the game is on the line. Irregardless if he has staged a few 4th quarter comebacks his overall qb rating gets worse in the 4th quarter.

The bottom line is this, Dalton is a below average qb and a total choke artist. He's as bad as Greg Norman the golfer who used to choke in golf majors.

Dalton was probably close to a top 15 qb a few years ago, now he is comfortably below average. He isn't sniffing a top 15 qb in the league in any way shape or form.

Well run organizations dump bad qb's while we hold on to Dalton and continue to make excuses for him.

Flacco wins a Superbowl with the Ravens, and when he gets older, shows declining skills, they draft a first round qb in Jackson and send him packing the next year. Dalton is a similar qb to Flacco, has not sniffed a playoff win, and we want to keep him!

The Jaguars had seen enough of Bortle's below average play and sent him packing.

Most teams, other than the Bengals, would not keep Dalton.

He ranked 26 out of 32 starters last year in qb rating. That isn't close to a top 15 qb.

The good new is our new coach has no ties to Dalton like Lewis did. Dalton won't get a long leash like he had with Lewis. If Dalton doesn't win a playoff game this year he's gone.

So stop making excuses for Dalton. It's always someone else's fault and not his. It's the offensive line, the injuries, the receivers not catching balls or the coaches. When will you excuse makers understand it isn't everyone else's fault for Dalton's bad play, it's Dalton himself!!

Last year we weren't very good. In total. That being said, Dalton did have 21 touchdowns (11 interceptions) in 11 games. He was well on pace to surpass his season averages before our offensive line let him down (again). Hell, for giggles, we just throw in Driskell's stats, he'd finish with 27 touchdowns and 13 picks. That's far from a horrible year. He would've fit in right around where that awful Tom Brady finished in TD passes. That's also forgiving and not including the many, many many missed opportunities that Jeff Driskell left on the field. His 55% last season is still 3% worse than Dalton's.

We can all cherry pick stats man.

[*rfaulk34*]

Since 2011, with a minimum of 15000 yards passing, Dalton ranks 15th out of 24 QBs that qualify.




Since 2011, with a minimum of 10000 yards passing, Dalton ranks 19th out of 32 QBs that qualify. 



Since 2011, with a minimum of 5000 yards passing, Dalton finally comes in above average at 23rd out of 55 QBs that qualify. 



And just for shitz and giggs, since 2011, with a minimum of 20000 yards passing, Dalton ranks 13th out of 18 that qualify. 

So...other than a ridiculously low number of passing yards...below average across the board. 

Not by a cherry picked single stat, but by an average of the 4 things every QB is judged on with the QB rating system. 

EDIT:

20000 passing yards, out of 18 that qualify:

9th in attempts
10th in completions
12th in comp %
10th in yards
10th in TDs
12th (fewest) in INTs

[Shake n Blake]

(07-28-2019, 11:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What i'm saying is, Dalton was on the field, and he missed 2 throws on that last drive. One of them (the 2nd one) AJ actually caught, but it was kind of a circus catch at the goal line and he was out of bounds. 

Dalton was the only one that had the power to make or miss those throws. It had nothing to do with Marv, Mike or anyone else in the world at that moment. Dalton missed them all on his own. 

I know what you were saying brother. My response was that those 1-2 missed throws were one of Dalton's few opportunities to prove his "clutch" ability. I'm saying if he weren't playing for the choking-est coach ever, he (and others) would've had far more "clutch" opportunities. Because lets be honest, most of our playoff games weren't even close. Marv's offenses always stunk in the playoffs, and the defense probably wasn't any better.

Just because he missed those 1-2 throws doesn't = he'd miss most clutch throws.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-31-2019, 02:02 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Not surprising.

Tom Brady's worst quarter is the 4th. For his career, his 4th quarter passer rating is a full 2 points lower than any other quarter.

His rating drops 5.4 more points when trailing with less than 4 minutes to go.

So I'd gather that the 4th quarter being the worst quarter is a common tale with QB's.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-03-2019, 07:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Since 2011, with a minimum of 15000 yards passing, Dalton ranks 15th out of 24 QBs that qualify.




Since 2011, with a minimum of 10000 yards passing, Dalton ranks 19th out of 32 QBs that qualify. 



Since 2011, with a minimum of 5000 yards passing, Dalton finally comes in above average at 23rd out of 55 QBs that qualify. 



And just for shitz and giggs, since 2011, with a minimum of 20000 yards passing, Dalton ranks 13th out of 18 that qualify. 

So...other than a ridiculously low number of passing yards...below average across the board. 

Not by a cherry picked single stat, but by an average of the 4 things every QB is judged on with the QB rating system. 

EDIT:

20000 passing yards, out of 18 that qualify:

9th in attempts
10th in completions
12th in comp %
10th in yards
10th in TDs
12th (fewest) in INTs

This is like saying "among the best QB's, Dalton is below average". 

You are eliminating a LOT of QB's who come and go, and considering only the QB's who have stuck around for the long haul. 

It's similar to saying "Joe is a below average employee" by not considering all the guys who get hired and fired within a year.