The (Dalton-less) Overrated Player Thread

[THE PISTONS]

AJ's only issue is injuries. When healthy, he puts up stats. Good teammate too.

I think Eifert is in the same boat, but he's played much less. In 6 years, he's only had over 445 yards receiving once. He's had under 394 yards receiving or less 4 times.

[impactplaya]

Carlos Dunlap.
For the last 4 seasons he's proclaims he's going
To break the NFL record for sacks and at
The end of 16 games he has he typical 7.5 sack
Season.
Yawn.
Yes he is good at getting his arms up and deflecting
Passes.
But he is not a finisher at the QB.
In a league where pass attempts are at a all time
His sack numbers are still very average.
One double digit sack Season out of 9 doesn't
Constitute a great pass rusher.
He's a solid DE.
But when this defense needs a big sack in big games.
He's invisible

[Au165]

(08-23-2019, 09:43 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Carlos Dunlap.
For the last 4 seasons he's proclaims he's going
To break the NFL record for sacks and at
The end of 16 games he has he typical 7.5 sack
Season.
Yawn.
Yes he is good at getting his arms up and deflecting
Passes.
But he is not a finisher at the QB.
In a league where pass attempts are at a all time
His sack numbers are still very average.
One double digit sack Season out of 9 doesn't
Constitute a great pass rusher.
He's a solid DE.
But when this defense needs a big sack in big games.
He's invisible

The guy is 85th all time (Since 1982 technically) in sacks. He is ahead of guys like Cameron Jordan, Everson Griffin, Brian Orakpo, Chris Long, Jason Pierre Paul, and so on. I'm not saying he is elite but he has had a very productive career, he just isn't a transcendent season but he has always had solid seasons. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Again, Carlos Dunlap is top 10 among active players for sacks. And there’s a lot of good pass rushers these days.

Overrated is obviously a subjective term, but I just don’t agree with that one.

[NKURyan]

(08-23-2019, 10:05 AM)Au165 Wrote: The guy is 85th all time (Since 1982 technically) in sacks. He is ahead of guys like Cameron Jordan, Everson Griffin, Brian Orakpo, Chris Long, Jason Pierre Paul, and so on. I'm not saying he is elite but he has had a very productive career, he just isn't a transcendent season but he has always had solid seasons. 

This is why we have threads like this... I wouldn't have known that.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-23-2019, 10:09 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Again, Carlos Dunlap is top 10 among active players for sacks. And there’s a lot of good pass rushers these days.

Overrated is obviously a subjective term, but I just don’t agree with that one.

I agree

Carlos has had a very, very solid career ! Tons of pressures, batted passes, chasing down RB's 50 yards downfield, just on and on. He's won us games.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

lol on the Dunlap people...

Back when the PFF grades were actually clarified, he was a top 10 DE and top 5 LDE, every year since 2010.

Aside from the sacks (which are middling to good), his overall pressure numbers are ALWAYS top 5 in the league, year in, year out; fact is, he beats his man consistently more than other DEs. FACT.

Then, when it comes to the run game, he is just superb; easily another top 5 DE in the league in run D and has been that since day 1; his TFL numbers are fantastic as well, not to mention he forces big fumbles every year; I can remember 3 off the top my of my head (with the SF one in 2015 being the most memorable), where he was out of the play, ran back into it and came in for the forced fumble.

Impact is cloudcuckoolanding like he normally does, but he is right about the finishing; Dunlap would DEFINITELY have the sack record, if he could just finish sacks, as the rest of his pressure numbers support 15+ sacks a year.

EDIT: Forgot about passes defensed!

Look at this:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/defense.htm#defense::pass_defended

Look at the, "pos," heading.

'nuff said.

2nd EDIT** Actually, look at this: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_defended_career.htm

The only lineman above him is Watt and, while I didn't go through every name, I believe they are the top 2 lineman in NFL history, at PDs.

Most overrated?

Can't really think of anyone, save for Finley lol

[BengalsRocker]

Ross

He's overrated and hated at the same time. LOL

Did he catch TDs?  Yep.

Has he been a disappointment to fans and the franchise?  Absolutely.

It's like a RB who busts his ass all over the field, but is not the guy to punch it in for the TD.

Which is the better player?  

The guy who scored the TD, or the guy who impacted plays up and down the field the whole game?

They both are valuable but damn it sure would be nice for him to be the whole field threat.

I really want Ross to be the complete WR.

Until he does that he's on my "bbb but he scored TDs" guy who will always have someone making excuses for.

Let's just hope scheme and actual play get him to where he should be in my eyes.

[J24]

Glasgow- I like him as a player but he gives zero pass rush. I get he can defend the run and PFF loves him but he doesn't do anything for me.

[Whatever]

Auden Tate.

[Luvnit2]

If I factor in salary and production, due to too many missed games it is AJ Green. We don't get the full value from AJ because you can't produce when not on the field. I am not blaming AJ (can't help injuries) and he is an awesome threat while on the field. But, look at what he is paid (top 3 to 5 WR) and his production (not in top 10) and is does not equal.

As for not taking salary/compensation into the equation:

Dunlap

He is one of my favorite all time players (so is Green), but he seems to disappear at times and no longer can dominate consistently. He is still a solid DE who plays both run and pass well, but seems to be digressing as he ages.

[BengalsRocker]

As far as the OP.

Shawn Williams is so up and down inconsistent for me.

He'll make impact plays and then turn around and be completely out of position.

He loses track of the ball when playing tighter coverage.

Then turns around and makes a nice run stop or QB pressure.

I don't think he's great.

If he improved the mental errors, even by a small fraction, he wouldn't even be on your overrated radar.

[BengalsRocker]

(08-23-2019, 10:32 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If I factor in salary and production, due to too many missed games it is AJ Green. We don't get the full value from AJ because you can't produce when not on the field. I am not blaming AJ (can't help injuries) and he is an awesome threat while on the field. But, look at what he is paid (top 3 to 5 WR) and his production (not in top 10) and is does not equal.

As for not taking salary/compensation into the equation:

Dunlap

He is one of my favorite all time players (so is Green), but he seems to disappear at times and no longer can dominate consistently. He is still a solid DE who plays both run and pass well, but seems to be digressing as he ages.

The problem is if you put Dunlap in this discussion Geno has had occasions as well.

I think game to game you'll run into mis-matches that favor the opponent for whatever reasons.

Geno and Dunlap are still great/very good players but not automatic dominant players every single game.

I've seen guys even like JJ Watt get cancelled out.

Whether it's individual match-up, double teaming, or offensive blocking scheme as a whole.

[Luvnit2]

(08-23-2019, 10:40 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The problem is if you put Dunlap in this discussion Geno has had occasions as well.

I think game to game you'll run into mis-matches that favor the opponent for whatever reasons.

Geno and Dunlap are still great/very good players but not automatic dominant players every single game.

I've seen guys even like JJ Watt get cancelled out.

Whether it's individual match-up, double teaming, or offensive blocking scheme as a whole.

I hope I am wrong and Dunlap gets the 10+ sacks minimum we need from him. I like him and always have. Same with AJ, great player on and off the field. It is not personal, just how I feel.

[BengalsRocker]

(08-23-2019, 10:46 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I hope I am wrong and Dunlap gets the 10+ sacks minimum we need from him. I like him and always have. Same with AJ, great player on and off the field. It is not personal, just how I feel.

I'm right there with ya !

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-23-2019, 10:32 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If I factor in salary and production, due to too many missed games it is AJ Green. We don't get the full value from AJ because you can't produce when not on the field. I am not blaming AJ (can't help injuries) and he is an awesome threat while on the field. But, look at what he is paid (top 3 to 5 WR) and his production (not in top 10) and is does not equal.

As for not taking salary/compensation into the equation:

Dunlap

He is one of my favorite all time players (so is Green), but he seems to disappear at times and no longer can dominate consistently. He is still a solid DE who plays both run and pass well, but seems to be digressing as he ages.

Nope. He’s 9th.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/03/07/highest-paid-wide-receivers-ranking-nfl-wrs-salary-2019-season/3084802002/

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-23-2019, 10:32 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If I factor in salary and production, due to too many missed games it is AJ Green. We don't get the full value from AJ because you can't produce when not on the field. I am not blaming AJ (can't help injuries) and he is an awesome threat while on the field. But, look at what he is paid (top 3 to 5 WR) and his production (not in top 10) and is does not equal.

As for not taking salary/compensation into the equation:

Dunlap

He is one of my favorite all time players (so is Green), but he seems to disappear at times and no longer can dominate consistently. He is still a solid DE who plays both run and pass well, but seems to be digressing as he ages.

Every player and I mean every player "disappears" at times for a bunch of reasons. And defensive players that can "dominate consistently" are few and far between !

There's only so many Reggie White's, Lawrence Taylor's, and Aaron Donald's in the world. 

And even these guys don't just b@#$ slap the offense on every play, even they disappear. I think you're expectations are set to high.

[Clark W Griswold]

Muñoz - he hasn’t made a good block in over 25 years and people claim he’s the greatest?


Seriously there are only a couple of Bengals who are highly rated (outside of Cincy) but are seen as disappointments lately - AJ and Eifert. In both cases injuries are the only thing that keeps them from performing. During the small periods when he’s healthy Eifert has been a game changer and we know how good AJ is. Problem is that AJ is starting to also get injured too frequently.

[XenoMorph]

(08-23-2019, 10:26 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Glasgow- I like him as a player but he gives zero pass rush. I get he can defend the run and PFF loves him but he doesn't do anything for me.

stopping the run is a must if the D is to improve.

[impactplaya]

(08-23-2019, 10:21 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: lol on the Dunlap people...

Back when the PFF grades were actually clarified, he was a top 10 DE and top 5 LDE, every year since 2010.

Aside from the sacks (which are middling to good), his overall pressure numbers are ALWAYS top 5 in the league, year in, year out; fact is, he beats his man consistently more than other DEs. FACT.

Then, when it comes to the run game, he is just superb; easily another top 5 DE in the league in run D and has been that since day 1; his TFL numbers are fantastic as well, not to mention he forces big fumbles every year; I can remember 3 off the top my of my head (with the SF one in 2015 being the most memorable), where he was out of the play, ran back into it and came in for the forced fumble.

Impact is cloudcuckoolanding like he normally does, but he is right about the finishing; Dunlap would DEFINITELY have the sack record, if he could just finish sacks, as the rest of his pressure numbers support  15+ sacks a year.

EDIT: Forgot about passes defensed!

Look at this:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/defense.htm#defense::pass_defended

Look at the, "pos," heading.

'nuff said.

2nd EDIT** Actually, look at this: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_defended_career.htm

The only lineman above him is Watt and, while I didn't go through every name, I believe they are the top 2 lineman in NFL history, at PDs.

Most overrated?

Can't really think of anyone, save for Finley lol

Let me know when Dunlap puts Mayfield or Rothlisberger 
On the ground this year.
Cause last year both QBs had clean jerseys vs the Bengals.
And to beat those teams you can't let those QBs get comfortable and just dissect a defense