What will our run defense look like this year?

[Bengalstripes9]

(09-04-2019, 01:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is a good question and a great thread Bengalstripes18. I think Billings will be big in this area, he hasn't been as 
good as I thought he would be up to this point cause of that injury, really slowed his progress down. But this should
be the year he comes along. Glasgow is a good run stopper too, same with Dunlap and Hubbard looks bigger and 
should be an upgrade over a washed up MJ. Preston and Pratt are good run stoppers and Vigil and Evans have seemed 
to improved. Of course Geno is pretty decent too, Jordan Willis has always been pretty good at stopping the run.

Think we will be pretty good, just have to shut down those drops offs that killed us last year.

Hope Lou has an aggressive style and plays more man with the Corners too.

Yeah, I agree. Those dropoffs seem to burn us. We've got to be better at avoiding blocks and staying with the backs. Hopefully practicing against it helps.

[*psychdoctor*]

I was looking at Preseason stats (which are not ideal to determine regular season stats because many starters played limited). But I see that in the 4 games this year, Bengals are allowing 5.5 yards per play (Bengals averaged 4.9 yards per play). Opposing teams made more rushing attempts against the Bengals compared to passing attempts, averaging 3.4 yards per rush (Bengals averaged a putrid 3.0 yards per rush). Opposing teams made less passing attempts but were able to hit 7.8 yards per pass (Bengals averaged 6.5 yards per passing attempt). In other words, opposing teams were making more rush attempts but were even more efficient with passing attempts in terms of yards gained. The good news, is that the Bengals edge opponents in total offensive yards, TOP and First Downs this preseason.

My understanding of the 5-1-5, 5-2-4, 4-2-5, 4-3-4 is limited because Lou and his defensive schemes have not been observed in regular season games with regular starters. Bengals will rotate players but I think they will get their best players on the field at the same time whenever possible.

Nevertheless, when I look at the final 53 roster (and this may change as it is fluid at this time) and I see the team keep 3 NT (and only 4 backers), it tells me that they may have 2 NTs on the field at the same time for anticipated rushing plays. I think they will try to keep Atkins on the field as well. Billings, Tupou, and Wren are listed as NT position. All 3 are large immovable rocks, hence "Mt. Wren" type. If the NTs do their job, they will block guards from clearing the LOS. PB will probably get most time on the field at MIKE and can react to gaps.

To answer the OP more directly, I think the Bengals are relying on their D-Line talent, which some consider the teeth of the defense, to contain the run.

The team may go with Lawson or Hubbard or Wynn who will be standing at the LOS or slightly off LOS and may move around like the old Zone-Blitz schemes the Steelers implemented years ago. Wynn or even Hubbard can drop off into coverage and Lawson can terrorize the QB. Also, Brown has looked great this preseason and can play inside or outside. So the D-Line could have a variety of looks (someone probably can do a better job at alignments then I illustrate below):

Dunlap-Billings-Wren/Tupou-Atkins-Brown/Lawson
PB
5 DBs

Dunlap-Billings-Atkins-Brown-Lawson (off LOS standing)
Wynn/Hubbard (hybrid backer/LDE Standing)-PB
4 DBs

Dunlap-Billings-Glasgow/Atkins-Lawson
Vigil-PB-Evans/Pratt
4 DBs

Hubbard/Dunlap-Wren/Tupou-Brown-Lawson (When Atkins needs a breather)
PB-Evans/Pratt
5 DBs

On paper, the use of two NTs on occasion will force opponents to get their players in space unless a rusher breaks containment. The problem I can see with these defense alignments is allowing other teams hitting TE on crossing routes or in the flat with fast RB. Even screens may work for opponents.

Do the Bengals have anyone besides Bates that can cover TE? I can see the Bengals defense giving up big plays if opponents get a player in space, especially if the RB breaks through the LOS and gets by PB.

[Bengalstripes9]

(09-04-2019, 06:29 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I was looking at Preseason stats (which are not ideal to determine regular season stats because many starters played limited). But I see that in the 4 games this year, Bengals are allowing 5.5 yards per play (Bengals averaged 4.9 yards per play). Opposing teams made more rushing attempts against the Bengals compared to passing attempts, averaging 3.4 yards per rush (Bengals averaged a putrid 3.0 yards per rush). Opposing teams made less passing attempts but were able to hit 7.8 yards per pass (Bengals averaged 6.5 yards per passing attempt). In other words, opposing teams were making more rush attempts but were even more efficient with passing attempts in terms of yards gained. The good news, is that the Bengals edge opponents in total offensive yards, TOP and First Downs this preseason.

My understanding of the 5-1-5, 5-2-4, 4-2-5, 4-3-4 is limited because Lou and his defensive schemes have not been observed in regular season games with regular starters. Bengals will rotate players but I think they will get their best players on the field at the same time whenever possible.

Nevertheless, when I look at the final 53 roster (and this may change as it is fluid at this time) and I see the team keep 3 NT (and only 4 backers), it tells me that they may have 2 NTs on the field at the same time for anticipated rushing plays. I think they will try to keep Atkins on the field as well. Billings, Tupou, and Wren are listed as NT position. All 3 are large immovable rocks, hence "Mt. Wren" type. If the NTs do their job, they will block guards from clearing the LOS. PB will probably get most time on the field at MIKE and can react to gaps.

To answer the OP more directly, I think the Bengals are relying on their D-Line talent, which some consider the teeth of the defense, to contain the run.

The team may go with Lawson or Hubbard or Wynn who will be standing at the LOS or slightly off LOS and may move around like the old Zone-Blitz schemes the Steelers implemented years ago. Wynn or even Hubbard can drop off into coverage and Lawson can terrorize the QB. Also, Brown has looked great this preseason and can play inside or outside. So the D-Line could have a variety of looks (someone probably can do a better job at alignments then I illustrate below):

Dunlap-Billings-Wren/Tupou-Atkins-Brown/Lawson
PB
5 DBs

Dunlap-Billings-Atkins-Brown-Lawson (off LOS standing)
Wynn/Hubbard (hybrid backer/LDE Standing)-PB
4 DBs

Dunlap-Billings-Glasgow/Atkins-Lawson
Vigil-PB-Evans/Pratt
4 DBs

Hubbard/Dunlap-Wren/Tupou-Brown-Lawson (When Atkins needs a breather)
PB-Evans/Pratt
5 DBs

On paper, the use of two NTs on occasion will force opponents to get their players in space unless a rusher breaks containment. The problem I can see with these defense alignments is allowing other teams hitting TE on crossing routes or in the flat with fast RB. Even screens may work for opponents.

Do the Bengals have anyone besides Bates that can cover TE? I can see the Bengals defense giving up big plays if opponents get a player in space, especially if the RB breaks through the LOS and gets by PB.

I liked all of the talk of versatility in the off-season. I hope the defense is very simple for the players , but looks confusing to the offense. I like the emphasis on the secondary depth this off-season. It was smart to keep more defensive lineman than linebackers because thats our strength.

I want to see us blow up runs at the LOS routinely. I could see a 5 man front being effective in situations, same as a 4-2-5 with an extra safety. I want to see a tough run defense and reliable man coverage. I want to see a variable pass rush. Lots of different looks so you don’t know where we’re coming from.

We have been aweful at covering the middle of the field, and covering tight ends and backs. Im wondering what their strategy will be and how effective it is. Wondering how well the offensive line holds up too.

Cant wait for Sunday, should be a great game!

[Bengalstripes9]

That 4-2-5 might be pretty effective with a safety lined up on the tight end. The safety could cover the tight end, rush the passer, or help with run pursuit depending on the play.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-04-2019, 10:44 AM)kevin Wrote: NO.  Coach Taylor says team will use 5 or more DB's 80 % of the time.   

The rule changes have teams passing.  Just look at how Mahomes and Mayfield passed at will on Bengals.  A LB can not cover a WR and it is an easy TD for the QB.   The days of 4 LBs are ancient history and Bengals will only use 3 LB's 20 % of the time.  In today's pass happy NFL and new rules,  Taylor says you need 5 or more DB's on the field 80 % of the game.   

Now this means DB's have to run tackle.  It also means you need some D Linemen to be Tweeners that can play LB if needed. 

As awful as Bengals were on D,  I'm open to change in NEW DEY.  I saw Mahomes and Mayfield beating the heck out of our LB's covering WR's. 

So under the new rules you have to stop the pass and your DB's need to be able to come up and tackle RB's & QB's.  It would help if Atkins & Dunlap tackled a few RB's and QB's trying to run.

4 out of every 5 plays we will see 5 or more DB's for Bengals. Very rare will we see just 4 DB's and a front 7

But what percentage will we see 5 or more DBs?

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-04-2019, 12:23 PM)Au165 Wrote: "soft zone" in the biggest cliche that gets posted here. It's an ignorant statement. It acts as if teams in the NFL don't pattern match but instead stand around covering grass. Zone gives players the ability to play with their eyes on the QB and make breaks on balls. Heck, Wade Phillips match up zone defense has been used by multiple super bowl teams in the last 5 or 6 years.

We blitzed 22nd most of any team in the NFL last year, and when we did we were the 32nd rated team in getting pressure doing it. It wasn't a matter of being "soft" it's matter of being ineffective and when you are ineffective and leave your defense on islands you get torched as we did. With that said the Bears, Chargers, Eagles, Rams, Colts all blitzed LESS then us last year and were much better defenses. Apparently being "Soft" works for them.

I get this is a message board for fans, but the amount of things that get thrown out around here that have little to no base in actual football reality is mind boggling at times.

Please forgive my ignorance. In the future I will refrain from posting without consulting with you first.

Have you considered taking your knowledge and experience to the NFL ? Instead of hanging out on a message board with us ignorant fans. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-04-2019, 06:29 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I was looking at Preseason stats (which are not ideal to determine regular season stats because many starters played limited).  But I see that in the 4 games this year, Bengals are allowing 5.5 yards per play (Bengals averaged 4.9 yards per play).  Opposing teams made more rushing attempts against the Bengals compared to passing attempts, averaging 3.4 yards per rush (Bengals averaged a putrid 3.0 yards per rush).  Opposing teams made less passing attempts but were able to hit 7.8 yards per pass (Bengals averaged 6.5 yards per passing attempt).  In other words, opposing teams were making more rush attempts but were even more efficient with passing attempts in terms of yards gained.  The good news, is that the Bengals edge opponents in total offensive yards, TOP and First Downs this preseason.  

My understanding of the 5-1-5, 5-2-4, 4-2-5, 4-3-4 is limited because Lou and his defensive schemes have not been observed in regular season games with regular starters.  Bengals will rotate players but I think they will get their best players on the field at the same time whenever possible.

Nevertheless, when I look at the final 53 roster (and this may change as it is fluid at this time) and I see the team keep 3 NT (and only 4 backers), it tells me that they may have 2 NTs on the field at the same time  for anticipated rushing plays.  I think they will try to keep Atkins on the field as well.  Billings, Tupou, and Wren are listed as NT position.  All 3 are large immovable rocks, hence "Mt. Wren" type.  If the NTs do their job, they will block guards from clearing the LOS.  PB will probably get most time on the field at MIKE and can react to gaps.

To answer the OP more directly, I think the Bengals are relying on their D-Line talent, which some consider the teeth of the defense, to contain the run.  

The team may go with Lawson or Hubbard or Wynn who will be standing at the LOS or slightly off LOS and may move around like the old Zone-Blitz schemes the Steelers implemented years ago.  Wynn or even Hubbard can drop off into coverage and Lawson can terrorize the QB.  Also, Brown has looked great this preseason and can play inside or outside. So the D-Line could have a variety of looks (someone probably can do a better job at alignments then I illustrate below):

Dunlap-Billings-Wren/Tupou-Atkins-Brown/Lawson
PB
5 DBs

Dunlap-Billings-Atkins-Brown-Lawson (off LOS standing)
Wynn/Hubbard (hybrid backer/LDE Standing)-PB
4 DBs

Dunlap-Billings-Glasgow/Atkins-Lawson
Vigil-PB-Evans/Pratt
4 DBs

Hubbard/Dunlap-Wren/Tupou-Brown-Lawson (When Atkins needs a breather)
PB-Evans/Pratt
5 DBs

On paper, the use of two NTs on occasion will force opponents to get their players in space unless a rusher breaks containment.    The problem I can see with these defense alignments is allowing other teams hitting TE on crossing routes or in the flat with fast RB.  Even screens may work for opponents.  

Do the Bengals have anyone besides Bates that can cover TE?     I can see the Bengals defense giving up big plays if opponents get a player in space, especially if the RB breaks through the LOS and gets by PB.

Pratt can cover TE's and RB's. I think he would be the Linebacker i would use in those situations over Preston.

Even if he is a rookie. Great post by the way Psych.

[THE PISTONS]

Kind of interesting what we think before the season vs during. Pratt is being barely used which I think is surprising us.