So...was Marvin holding Ross back?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-10-2019, 12:21 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I wasn't aware Joe Mixon was the kind of player who had to be allowed by the other team to succeed. In all fairness, I'm intrigued to see how we look against SF.  Mere regression towards the mean would indicate more running plays, obviously. 

He doesn't need to be. It's as simple as 1+1=2. Preseason/bad blocking/no gains...forward to Seattle, stacking the LOS...running game going nowhere. Then, no Mixon in the 2nd half. 

Here's a question...how many times would you have preferred Taylor call runs early in the game before he realized it wasn't going to work? Marv would have called a lot and not been very successful. Belichick adapts to the teams he plays and sometimes (against Pitt especially) he completely ignores the running game and throws the ball all over the place (ok look...forget the Brady part of this). 

I'd rather have Taylor emulate BB and not Marv. 


I think there will be more runs against the 'niners. Home game and whatnot. They will at least be more willing to try harder to run, being at home--i believe. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-10-2019, 12:24 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, devil's advocate and all that.  I assure you if/when Ross gets run out of town I'll take up the mantle of trying to convince us that it wasn't his fault.  But on a serious note, I'm still not sure how happy we should be with the idea that Ross needs to be coddled and complimented like at least one of my crazy ex girlfriends.

I'm with you. I'm not happy about it but if the extent of my involvement is cheering or booing, and they're the ones that need to do all the work coddling...then that frees me up to complain if their lack of compassion causes me to not enjoy football on Sundays.

[NKURyan]

(09-10-2019, 12:40 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He doesn't need to be. It's as simple as 1+1=2. Preseason/bad blocking/no gains...forward to Seattle, stacking the LOS...running game going nowhere. Then, no Mixon in the 2nd half. 

Here's a question...how many times would you have preferred Taylor call runs early in the game before he realized it wasn't going to work? Marv would have called a lot and not been very successful. Belichick adapts to the teams he plays and sometimes (against Pitt especially) he completely ignores the running game and throws the ball all over the place (ok look...forget the Brady part of this). 

I'd rather have Taylor emulate BB and not Marv. 


I think there will be more runs against the 'niners. Home game and whatnot. They will at least be more willing to try harder to run, being at home--i believe. 

Agreed 100%. I think a lot of people are going to be looking for them to establish the run against SF, but if SF plays them exactly like Seattle does I have no problem with them chucking it another 50 times. I don't want them to run just because they feel like they have to run... take that is given to them.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-10-2019, 12:04 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Agreed 100%. I think a lot of people are going to be looking for them to establish the run against SF, but if SF plays them exactly like Seattle does I have no problem with them chucking it another 50 times. I don't want them to run just because they feel like they have to run... take that is given to them.

Yep. Exactly. 

[GreenCornBengal]

https://www.bengals.com/video/ross-on-his-week-1-performance-it-feels-good-to-know-that-i-m-supposed-to-be-in-

Ross is saying the right things. Not happy with the L. Knows it was only one week. Has to keep making steps forward.

I'm liking his attitude.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-08-2019, 09:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All it took was 1 game without Marvin - with an offensive minded HC - for Ross and Dalton to have career days. Does anyone on here still question the impact of coaching and schemes? Sure, we've got a long ways to go, but that was a pretty incredible start. Ross looked like the guy we thought we were drafting. Dalton could be headed for a career year. Amazing that they did this against a top defense on the road, with no AJ Green and no run game.

Yes.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-10-2019, 12:40 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He doesn't need to be. It's as simple as 1+1=2. Preseason/bad blocking/no gains...forward to Seattle, stacking the LOS...running game going nowhere. Then, no Mixon in the 2nd half. 

Here's a question...how many times would you have preferred Taylor call runs early in the game before he realized it wasn't going to work? Marv would have called a lot and not been very successful. Belichick adapts to the teams he plays and sometimes (against Pitt especially) he completely ignores the running game and throws the ball all over the place (ok look...forget the Brady part of this). 

I'd rather have Taylor emulate BB and not Marv. 


I think there will be more runs against the 'niners. Home game and whatnot. They will at least be more willing to try harder to run, being at home--i believe. 

Great post. Have seen the Pats pass the ball like 14 times in a row to start out a game because that Defense wasn't 
good against the pass. You do what works against the team you are playing against. You don't just run it cause you
think you are a running team, you run it when it works, just like you pass it when it works.

Taylor knows this, I can tell.

I just want to see our O-line run block better, that is all.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(09-10-2019, 09:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post. Have seen the Pats pass the ball like 14 times in a row to start out a game because that Defense wasn't 
good against the pass. You do what works against the team you are playing against. You don't just run it cause you
think you are a running team, you run it when it works, just like you pass it when it works.

Taylor knows this, I can tell.

I just want to see our O-line run block better, that is all.

I think if we had Mixon we would have ran more in 2nd half. Gio while a nice compliment to Joe just isn't that type of runner never has been. Mixon tends to feast on tired defenses

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-10-2019, 10:03 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I think if we had Mixon we would have ran more in 2nd half. Gio while a nice compliment to Joe just isn't that type of runner never has been. Mixon tends to feast on tired defenses

For damn sure brother. Mixon can run even when run blocking is poor.

Shown this last season. Not many backs can do this. Nothing against Gio.

Gio is great at picking up the blitz though man, this is why they extended him IMO.

[*jason*]

(09-10-2019, 10:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For damn sure brother. Mixon can run even when run blocking is poor.

Shown this last season. Not many backs can do this. Nothing against Gio.

Gio is great at picking up the blitz though man, this is why they extended him IMO.

Off topic, but did you happen to catch Phillip Lindsey try to pick up Burfict last night? Burfict didn't get Carr, but he ragdolled Lindsey.

[McC]

(09-10-2019, 11:01 PM)jason Wrote: Off topic, but did you happen to catch Phillip Lindsey try to pick up Burfict last night? Burfict didn't get Carr, but he ragdolled Lindsey.

How did he play overall?

[NKURyan]

(09-10-2019, 10:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For damn sure brother. Mixon can run even when run blocking is poor.

Shown this last season. Not many backs can do this. Nothing against Gio.

Gio is great at picking up the blitz though man, this is why they extended him IMO.

Well that and the 30+ yard run after catch he had.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-09-2019, 09:45 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Well, it was prompted in reference to a media asked question to John Ross about Marvin so...

so.....khakis?

[Shake n Blake]

(09-10-2019, 12:31 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That's why i said what i said in the previous post about him being mentally weak. 

I was commenting on Marv's double standard in 'player accountability', so we're kind of on different pages. 

I'd say the scheme didn't fit Ross, more than anything, last year. He wasn't put in position to make plays. Really, not a lot of receivers were. How many complaints were lodged in gameday threads about a lack of crossing patterns or short throws over the middle to 'backs? WR routes were old school/bland/unimaginitive. There's no great Marv conspiracy re: on the field play. Just that he was quick to bench him for whatever reason--despite what he could have done for the offense--when other clowns were repeatedly ran out there time and again. 

Agreed. I think it was a combo of not giving the kid enough leeway and poor usage. Trying to pigeon hole the guy into a specific role. Not tayloring (pun intended) a game plan around him and his skills. Last year, he fumbles on his first play and gets benched. This year he drops a couple and Taylor doesn't change a thing. It's almost like he made a point to feature Ross and get the kid going to show him things are different.

I mean, this kid just almost equaled his 2019 season yardage total in 1 game, and people don't think how he's been handled by the 2 coaches is a big difference? Can't say I'm surprised though. I figured people would fall back on "Ross improved himself" if he broke out this year. We can't be admitting we were wrong, now can we?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-11-2019, 12:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote:

Agreed. I think it was a combo of not giving the kid enough leeway and poor usage. Trying to pigeon hole the guy into a specific role. Not tayloring (pun intended) a game plan around him and his skills. Last year, he fumbles on his first play and gets benched. This year he drops a couple and Taylor doesn't change a thing. It's almost like he made a point to feature Ross and get the kid going to show him things are different.

I mean, this kid just almost equaled his 2019 season yardage total in 1 game, and people don't think how he's been handled by the 2 coaches is a big difference? Can't say I'm surprised though. I figured people would fall back on "Ross improved himself" if he broke out this year. We can't be admitting we were wrong, now can we?

Perish the thought! 

[McC]

(09-11-2019, 12:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote:

Agreed. I think it was a combo of not giving the kid enough leeway and poor usage. Trying to pigeon hole the guy into a specific role. Not tayloring (pun intended) a game plan around him and his skills. Last year, he fumbles on his first play and gets benched. This year he drops a couple and Taylor doesn't change a thing. It's almost like he made a point to feature Ross and get the kid going to show him things are different.

I mean, this kid just almost equaled his 2019 season yardage total in 1 game, and people don't think how he's been handled by the 2 coaches is a big difference? Can't say I'm surprised though. I figured people would fall back on "Ross improved himself" if he broke out this year. We can't be admitting we were wrong, now can we?

The current prevailing fallback seems to be some derivation of...it's one game.  I'm not gonna put him in the HOF just yet.  (You know, minimizing with hyperbole).

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-11-2019, 12:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote:

Agreed. I think it was a combo of not giving the kid enough leeway and poor usage. Trying to pigeon hole the guy into a specific role. Not tayloring (pun intended) a game plan around him and his skills. Last year, he fumbles on his first play and gets benched. This year he drops a couple and Taylor doesn't change a thing. It's almost like he made a point to feature Ross and get the kid going to show him things are different.

I mean, this kid just almost equaled his 2019 season yardage total in 1 game, and people don't think how he's been handled by the 2 coaches is a big difference? Can't say I'm surprised though. I figured people would fall back on "Ross improved himself" if he broke out this year. We can't be admitting we were wrong, now can we?

100% correct IMHO

I've said it a hundred times so one more won't hurt. ML refused to do Ross even one single favor. He told him this is what we do either fit in or fail, period !

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-10-2019, 09:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post. Have seen the Pats pass the ball like 14 times in a row to start out a game because that Defense wasn't 
good against the pass. You do what works against the team you are playing against. You don't just run it cause you
think you are a running team, you run it when it works, just like you pass it when it works.

Taylor knows this, I can tell.

I just want to see our O-line run block better, that is all.

ML's biggest downfall

We have plan A and if it doesn't work well we'll just keep pushing it until it does. Rarely was there a plan B

[fredtoast]

(09-11-2019, 12:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I mean, this kid just almost equaled his 2019 season yardage total in 1 game, and people don't think how he's been handled by the 2 coaches is a big difference? Can't say I'm surprised though. I figured people would fall back on "Ross improved himself" if he broke out this year. We can't be admitting we were wrong, now can we?

And the people obsessed with ripping Marvin will deny that any player ever got better without new coaches.

Funny how people complained that Marvin used Ross too much on deep routes, but his big yards under Taylor come on deep routes.

And Ross played over 90% of the snaps over the last 8 games last year so the claims that Marvin benched him every time he made a mistake are 100% bullshit.

Marvin haters can't admit they are wrong so they just make stuff up.

[McC]

(09-11-2019, 10:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And the people obsessed with ripping Marvin will deny that any player ever got better without new coaches.

Funny how people complained that Marvin used Ross too much on deep routes, but his big yards under Taylor come on deep routes.

And Ross played over 90% of the snaps over the last 8 games last year so the claims that Marvin benched him every time he made a mistake are 100% bullshit.

Marvin haters can't admit they are wrong so they just make stuff up.

I believe it's already been pointed out that the deep routes were not the kind he ran so much last year, which is the fly patterns down the sidelines.  One was an out and up and the other a wheel route, and the one he dropped was a deep crosser with a pick built in. 

Any coach would want him to be going deep but not every coach would show some creativity in how they do it.