The Relationship Between Ownership and Fans is on Life Support

[samhain]

After attending today's game and dozens of others since PBS opened, it's extremely difficult to ignore the sad state of attendance and interest in this team. Small observations amount to a lot in regard to this, IMO. Here are a few that I've had after today:

I attended the Thursday night home opener last year and thought it was poorly attended for a prime time season opener. Today was much worse. The club level was barren as it has been for over a half decade, and if not for 49er fans in attendance, the canopy and lower Bowls would have been even sadder.

Speaking of 49ers fans, it was a surprise to see just how many were there. I've seen people comment on the defense chants coming from the stand when the Bengals were on offense. This didn't start late in the game when SF was looking dominant and the fans came out of their shells. It started literally immediately on the first drive of the game.

PBS is becoming a destination stadium for other NFL teams. We're used to seeing Steelers fans and lately even Browns fans taking over, but we're talking about droves of fans of a team that plays their home games 3000 miles from here owning it on opening freaking day. That's uh, something, I guess.

The Banks tailgate area was pretty poorly attended as well. In 2014 and 15 I avoided it because of crowding and difficulty getting to beer/food.restrooms. Today it was pretty wide open with the only line being for pizza, the only food offered outside of the restaurants. Almost no wait for beer or toilets.

Why does this matter? It speaks volumes about how apathetic this fanbase is and how done the casual football fan is with the ownership of this team. Attendance worsened a lot in 08 when they sucked and the economy was garbage. Early in the Palmer era, you paid through the nose for canopy seats on the secondary market. Now the team is forced to reduce ticket prices in a much better economy. The club level hasn't recovered to this day.

There's no shortage of bashing the Brown family for their approach to personnel acquisition here and anywhere else Bengals football is discussed. What's perhaps even worse is their lack of interest in growing their brand or expanding their profits by improving the fan experience at games. In the lower bowl where we sit, TVs are few and far between in the concourse. It's basically concrete and a couple of picnic tables with the same shitty concessions they've always had save for some buffalo sauce on the chicken fingers that they always seem to be out of. You have to do better than that in modern pro sports. The Reds have sucked for years and play in the same small market, but their fan experience is excellent. They make an effort.

The club level situation is an eyesore. It might as well not be there. It's pathetic that they can't generate corporate interest in the suites that have sat empty for such an extended period of time. It's not just individual fans that are done, it's local businesses as well. So lazy and such a waste.

It's going to take more than a new coach to change this. It will take years of sustained winning, and even then that might not be enough. I think it's a real possibility that this team isn't long for Cincinnati once the lease is up. People just don't give a shit anymore and they've seen enough of the family's act.

[Junglejuice]

(09-16-2019, 01:32 AM)samhain Wrote: After attending today's game and dozens of others since PBS opened, it's extremely difficult to ignore the sad state of attendance and interest in this team.  Small observations amount to a lot in regard to this, IMO.  Here are a few that I've had after today:

I attended the Thursday night home opener last year and thought it was poorly attended for a prime time season opener.  Today was much worse.  The club level was barren as it has been for over a half decade, and if not for 49er fans in attendance, the canopy and lower Bowls would have been even sadder.

Speaking of 49ers fans, it was a surprise to see just how many were there.  I've seen people comment on the defense chants coming from the stand when the Bengals were on offense.  This didn't start late in the game when SF was looking dominant and the fans came out of their shells.  It started literally immediately on the first drive of the game.

PBS is becoming a destination stadium for other NFL teams.  We're used to seeing Steelers fans and lately even Browns fans taking over, but we're talking about droves of fans of a team that plays their home games 3000 miles from here owning it on opening freaking day.  That's uh, something, I guess.  

The Banks tailgate area was pretty poorly attended as well.  In 2014 and 15 I avoided it because of crowding and difficulty getting to beer/food.restrooms.  Today it was pretty wide open with the only line being for pizza, the only food offered outside of the restaurants.  Almost no wait for beer or toilets.

Why does this matter?  It speaks volumes about how apathetic this fanbase is and how done the casual football fan is with the ownership of this team.  Attendance worsened a lot in 08 when they sucked and the economy was garbage.  Early in the Palmer era, you paid through the nose for canopy seats on the secondary market.  Now the team is forced to reduce ticket prices in a much better economy.  The club level hasn't recovered to this day.

There's no shortage of bashing the Brown family for their approach to personnel acquisition here and anywhere else Bengals football is discussed.  What's perhaps even worse is their lack of interest in growing their brand or expanding their profits by improving the fan experience at games.  In the lower bowl where we sit, TVs are few and far between in the concourse.  It's basically concrete and a couple of picnic tables with the same shitty concessions they've always had save for some buffalo sauce on the chicken fingers that they always seem to be out of.  You have to do better than that in modern pro sports.  The Reds have sucked for years and play in the same small market, but their fan experience is excellent.  They make an effort.

The club level situation is an eyesore.  It might as well not be there.  It's pathetic that they can't generate corporate interest in the suites that have sat empty for such an extended period of time.  It's not just individual fans that are done, it's local businesses as well. So lazy and such a waste.  

It's going to take more than a new coach to change this.  It will take years of sustained winning, and even then that might not be enough.  I think it's a real possibility that this team isn't long for Cincinnati once the lease is up.  People just don't give a shit anymore and they've seen enough of the family's act.

I was a season ticket holder from 04-17......   No one showed up to watch the team during our 5 straight playoff seasons either.   TV experience has killed the live product.

[Millhouse]

(09-16-2019, 01:32 AM)samhain Wrote: It's going to take more than a new coach to change this.  It will take years of sustained winning, and even then that might not be enough.  I think it's a real possibility that this team isn't long for Cincinnati once the lease is up.  People just don't give a shit anymore and they've seen enough of the family's act.

I think it is down to two things to get a packed stadium like back in the Carson days.

One is winning in the playoffs, getting to the AFC title game mainly. Even then it may not be fully packed due to the second thing.

Mike Brown either sells the team to a new owner that comes in and brings this organization & experience with the fans to levels like other teams have. Or if it's within the family, they completely overhaul and do a 180 opposite than he did. A complete reboot of management while giving back to the fans tenfold more than the crumbs MB has given them over the years.

The latter is basically the only thing that will get me to go to a game again though. When they were getting beat down today, I honestly didn't even care. I went from "Hey they showed something good last week" to complete apathy pretty quick. Which means being a fan of the Bengals is not much more than a side hobby anymore. I got better things to do and spend my money on than that Mike Brown organization, eff him. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-16-2019, 02:16 AM)Junglejuice Wrote: I was a season ticket holder from 04-17......   No one showed up to watch the team during our 5 straight playoff seasons either.   TV experience has killed the live product.

Not everywhere. Flip on a Dallas or Green Bay home game and look at the stands.

[HarleyDog]

Attendance looked poor yesterday and many fans have decided not to fall for the hype dished out year after year. However, I am not one of them. Even though yesterday’s loss was painful to watch, it’s not going to effect how I feel about this team. I think they are trying to win. Even though MB has traditionally been labeled as cheap and running the team in a nostalgic manner, he has done some things recently which have be, well, un-MB-like with the coaching changes being the biggest.

As for winning, yes we all want that each week. But yesterday’s game was only the 2nd for ZT as HC and with his staff. A lot will be seen on how they react to the loss. We played damn well in Seattle, but laid an egg at home. Gotta figure out why? Here’s a small clip regarding the booing from ZT:

Quote:How tough was it to hear boos from the stands?

“We’re focused on ourselves. We were playing poorly in all three phases. It’s not anything to be excited about, if I was a fan in the stands that paid money to come to this game. It’s on us to fix the issues that we have and play better, and the fans will rally behind that. Right now, we didn’t give them a good enough product to be excited about.”

As for going to the stadium, I’m guilty of Samhain comments about the tv experience. I have friends over on weekends and we watch it in the mancave. Saves me a ton of money and don’t have to worry about drinking beer and getting home.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-16-2019, 01:32 AM)samhain Wrote: After attending today's game and dozens of others since PBS opened, it's extremely difficult to ignore the sad state of attendance and interest in this team.  Small observations amount to a lot in regard to this, IMO.  Here are a few that I've had after today:

I attended the Thursday night home opener last year and thought it was poorly attended for a prime time season opener.  Today was much worse.  The club level was barren as it has been for over a half decade, and if not for 49er fans in attendance, the canopy and lower Bowls would have been even sadder.

Speaking of 49ers fans, it was a surprise to see just how many were there.  I've seen people comment on the defense chants coming from the stand when the Bengals were on offense.  This didn't start late in the game when SF was looking dominant and the fans came out of their shells.  It started literally immediately on the first drive of the game.

PBS is becoming a destination stadium for other NFL teams.  We're used to seeing Steelers fans and lately even Browns fans taking over, but we're talking about droves of fans of a team that plays their home games 3000 miles from here owning it on opening freaking day.  That's uh, something, I guess.  

The Banks tailgate area was pretty poorly attended as well.  In 2014 and 15 I avoided it because of crowding and difficulty getting to beer/food.restrooms.  Today it was pretty wide open with the only line being for pizza, the only food offered outside of the restaurants.  Almost no wait for beer or toilets.

Why does this matter?  It speaks volumes about how apathetic this fanbase is and how done the casual football fan is with the ownership of this team.  Attendance worsened a lot in 08 when they sucked and the economy was garbage.  Early in the Palmer era, you paid through the nose for canopy seats on the secondary market.  Now the team is forced to reduce ticket prices in a much better economy.  The club level hasn't recovered to this day.

There's no shortage of bashing the Brown family for their approach to personnel acquisition here and anywhere else Bengals football is discussed.  What's perhaps even worse is their lack of interest in growing their brand or expanding their profits by improving the fan experience at games.  In the lower bowl where we sit, TVs are few and far between in the concourse.  It's basically concrete and a couple of picnic tables with the same shitty concessions they've always had save for some buffalo sauce on the chicken fingers that they always seem to be out of.  You have to do better than that in modern pro sports.  The Reds have sucked for years and play in the same small market, but their fan experience is excellent.  They make an effort.

The club level situation is an eyesore.  It might as well not be there.  It's pathetic that they can't generate corporate interest in the suites that have sat empty for such an extended period of time.  It's not just individual fans that are done, it's local businesses as well. So lazy and such a waste.  

It's going to take more than a new coach to change this.  It will take years of sustained winning, and even then that might not be enough.  I think it's a real possibility that this team isn't long for Cincinnati once the lease is up.  People just don't give a shit anymore and they've seen enough of the family's act.

Although I agree with you 100% on the overall post, I have to correct this statement.  The club lounge seats always look more empty because those seats have access to the club lounge.  The club lounge is where they spent a great deal of the money on this stadium.  I believe they were thinking this would get fringe fans and businesses to get these seats for the "experience" and not so much for the game itself.  I traded for those seats once and I was amazed how many of the folks in those sections never even came out to watch the game.  Sure, there are a lot of TVs back there, but you can watch TV at home.  

For some time, these seats were all sold out as season tickets.  I have no idea where the numbers are at now, but they always looked empty for that reason....although they weren't really empty, just in the lounge.

As for the rest, I am starting to have the conspiracy theories of moving the team by tanking.  The mere fact that a team averaged almost 10 YPC and destroyed you on your field is so embarrassing that I can't comprehend ever wanting to pay to see that.  I let my tickets go last year, partially due to divorce and partially due to my father's issue with his knee.  I paid for those seats during the pathetic 90s and always dealt with t the legion of drool in our stadium every steeler game.  It was never worth the money, and even more so now that there is no blackouts.

I fear this team is heading for a tear-down and might let AJ Green and Dalton go.  Sad, because the ownership might actually listen to their stupid fan base that blames Dalton for everything.  That defense is putrid.  I have no idea what happened between week 1 and 2, but the 49ers are not that good.  The Bengals just made them look that way.  

I got my hopes up again.  Lucy pulled the ball away again.  I will probably have this happen the rest of my life, but I doubt I get my hopes up again any time soon.  

[THE PISTONS]

There are some cities where fans still fill stadiums. Those teams have a winning tradition. Here, there's none of that.

[corpjet]

As a season ticket holder on the visiting side (full sun) it was hot, I know the Club was fairly crowded inside and most chose to stay in the A/C and watch the game and others on the tvs inside with A/C, sad but true.

Not to be Debbie Downer but unless this team wins a playoff game before the stadium lease/agreement with the county is up, i think there is over a 50% chance this team leaves town. They have no community/city support and the Bengals worked the county over on the current agreement which is by far one of the worst in the NFL.

As far as pre game, there was ALOT of hype and energy, I know our tailgate in Lot E had 250 plus people and an appearance by Kenny Anderson who stated he believes in Zac and the plan he has for the organization

I think Zac can turn this around but we are 2-3 years away best case scenario from this happening

[*PhilHos*]

(09-16-2019, 11:08 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are some cities where fans still fill stadiums. Those teams have a winning tradition. Here, there's none of that.

Heck, even the Browns fill up their stadium and their "winning" tradition is worse than ours!

[masonbengals fan]

They have brought this on themselves. No winning = no support

[THE PISTONS]

The bar is low here, EVERY draft no matter who we draft gives fans renewed optimism. We could go 2-14 and we'll get shiny new draft picks in the offseason to get fans excited. Plus, Jonah will be coming back.

We'll also bank on health, when in reality you never have a fully healthy team.

Rinse. Repeat.

People will be predicting playoffs.

The system basically allows Bengals Management to do this, and there will be a lot of fans with endless optimism every offseason, until reality of the season hits.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-16-2019, 11:26 AM)corpjet Wrote: As a season ticket holder on the visiting side (full sun) it was hot, I know the Club was fairly crowded inside and most chose to stay in the A/C and watch the game and others on the tvs inside with A/C, sad but true.

Not to be Debbie Downer but unless this team wins a playoff game before the stadium lease/agreement with the county is up, i think there is over a 50% chance this team leaves town.  They have no community/city support and the Bengals worked the county over on the current agreement which is by far one of the worst in the NFL.

As far as pre game, there was ALOT of hype and energy, I know our tailgate in Lot E had 250 plus people and an appearance by Kenny Anderson who stated he believes in Zac and the plan he has for the organization

I think Zac can turn this around but we are 2-3 years away best case scenario from this happening

Honestly, EVERY TEAM in the NFL wins playoff games...except us. 1 playoff win isn't some insurmountable bar that can't be overcome.

If we'd just do things at the league average, we'd likely win one. HIRE MORE SCOUTS!

[Ravage]

(09-16-2019, 11:30 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Heck, even the Browns fill up their stadium and their "winning" tradition is worse than ours!

Yeah but it's Cleveland. What the hell else are they going to do?

(09-16-2019, 11:46 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, EVERY TEAM in the NFL wins playoff games...except us. 1 playoff win isn't some insurmountable bar that can't be overcome.

If we'd just do things at the league average, we'd likely win one. HIRE MORE SCOUTS!

2nd time in two days mentioning it, but for a guy whose username is "The Pistons" you sure forget about the Lions pretty easily. We're at 28 years w/o a playoff win, they're at 27 and have 1 total playoff win since 1957. 1 playoff win in 62 years...that's just incredible ineptitude, especially considering some of the talent they've had like Barry Sanders, Herman Moore, and Megatron. Granted the Bengals playoff record is terrible also, but you realize they have 5x as many playoff wins as the Lions, and they've done that in 11 less seasons? So...it could be worse. Not much worse mind you, but it could be worse.

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2019, 11:46 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, EVERY TEAM in the NFL wins playoff games...except us. 1 playoff win isn't some insurmountable bar that can't be overcome.

If we'd just do things at the league average, we'd likely win one. HIRE MORE SCOUTS!

The Bengals and Lions stand alone (if you don't count any expansion teams that came into existence after the Mike Brown era started) and both are run by fossils who inherited the team...go figure.  I can't blame them, if I were 85+ years old and making more money that I knew what to do with I'd probably do nothing, too.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-16-2019, 12:00 PM)Ravage Wrote: Yeah but it's Cleveland. What the hell else are they going to do?


2nd time in two days mentioning it, but for a guy whose username is "The Pistons" you sure forget about the Lions pretty easily. We're at 28 years w/o a playoff win, they're at 27 and have 1 total playoff win since 1957. So...it could be worse. Not much worse mind you, but it could.

I'm not a Lions fan, but yes they are poorly managed too.

[Ravage]

(09-16-2019, 12:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The Bengals and Lions stand alone (if you don't count any expansion teams that came into existence after the Mike Brown era started) and both are run by fossils who inherited the team...go figure.  I can't blame them, if I were 85+ years old and making more money that I knew what to do with I'd probably do nothing, too.

Cardinals are historically lousy also. They went from 1947 to 1998 w/o a playoff win and only 4 trips to the playoffs in-between those two wins over 51 years. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-16-2019, 12:15 PM)Ravage Wrote: Cardinals are historically lousy also. They went from 1947 to 1998 w/o a playoff win and only 4 trips to the playoffs in-between those two wins over 51 years. 

Historically, they're the worst since they've been around since the Model T was a new thing.

[Lionel Hutz]

(09-16-2019, 11:26 AM)corpjet Wrote: As a season ticket holder on the visiting side (full sun) it was hot, I know the Club was fairly crowded inside and most chose to stay in the A/C and watch the game and others on the tvs inside with A/C, sad but true.

Not to be Debbie Downer but unless this team wins a playoff game before the stadium lease/agreement with the county is up, i think there is over a 50% chance this team leaves town.  They have no community/city support and the Bengals worked the county over on the current agreement which is by far one of the worst in the NFL.

As far as pre game, there was ALOT of hype and energy, I know our tailgate in Lot E had 250 plus people and an appearance by Kenny Anderson who stated he believes in Zac and the plan he has for the organization

I think Zac can turn this around but we are 2-3 years away best case scenario from this happening

Agreed on the leaving town part.  The fanbase/city has finally reached their breaking point.  35-40k attendance going to be the norm going forward.  I used to worry about Bengals leaving, but now I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if they did. 

[bengals67]

I have been thinking for several years that team will leave as soon as lease expires. They won't get a new stadium and attendance and season ticket revenue will be the lowest in the league.

This team is almost as bad as Miami. I cannot wait to see the 30 point whipping the Pats will put on us in December before 25,000 fans.

There is no chance for them to seriously contend for at least 2 to 3 years- and that is assuming they start hitting on their draft picks.

Andy, AJ, Geno and Carlos would all be wise to get out while they still have a chance to play for a serious contender.

No traditional picket QB cold have done better than Dalton yesterday- including Rodgers or Brady- with the nonexistent running game and the revolving door pass pro.

Miami of Ohio will make at least a comparable if not better effort against Ohio State next week than what we saw from alleged professionals yesterday.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-16-2019, 05:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not everywhere. Flip on a Dallas or Green Bay home game and look at the stands.

Dallas had 24th best percentage in attendance of 90% for their home opener... to try to compare Cincy to Dallas is just dumb.. How can a city with 7th largest metro area not sell out?????  Giants did not sell out .. if we get to 85 to 90 percent with the size of our metro area I would be happy with that

I do think the Bengals are in trouble with attendance ,, they will have to show improvement and starting winning before fans start to come back..