Bobby Hart-ejection

[Ravage]

Bobby didn't actually make contact with the official, he ran up to the ref excitedly screaming "Can you BELIEVE they're paying me 7mil a year?!" and the ref, disgusted by this reality, ejected him.

At least that's what I choose to believe.

[*bfine32*]

(09-23-2019, 08:28 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Wait a minute....what are those stars for? How have I never noticed them? How do I have some, and do I want them?

I think you get one every time you suck up to a mod

[*psychdoctor*]

(09-23-2019, 08:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well in my defense when the OP said Bobby only gets it when he touches an official, further led to my assumption
Cause only dudes are named Pally
Look at you bragging with all your stars. I can't even get one star and I'm kinda of a big deal around here. 

Two things:
1- I have not and will not show an anus....
2-I may have stars but you have Bengal's eyes....looks mysterious...

[Andy2AJ]

Bobby Hart May be the worst multi year signing we have had in the last 5 years. He’s absolutely awful

[PAjwPhilly]

(09-24-2019, 02:46 AM)Andy2AJ Wrote: Bobby Hart May be the worst multi year signing we have had in the last 5 years. He’s absolutely awful

If we didn't resign him... who would we start?

Who would be the tackles? Redmon? Westerman? Some of you don't think about reality before you complain. It is not like they put the Franchise Tag on the man. He is as young as just about every 1st rd OL pick in the draft (I think there was only a 1 in a few rounds).

We had to put someone out there, what other tackles were interested in coming here? He isn't an All-Pro tackle, but he hasn't been the biggest problem either. A lot of team's OL are not what they want.  A lot of teams are in need.
Who would you rather have at RT?

It is so easy to complain in hindsight, easier to complain when you are not realistic with the options we had...

[grampahol]

Don't worry. Turner considers him to be a special RT.. He has all the confidence in the world in Hart and this means he'll be the GOAT ..Not the greatest of all time, just a goat that eats turf between plays.. 

[BengalsBong]

(09-23-2019, 06:12 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This is why you have no stars under your name...sick.  Just sick.  

You get the stars for brown nosing.... lmfao

P.S. I didn't have any stars when I posted this now I got 5 wtf?

Maybe I had them and didn't notice...

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-23-2019, 03:16 PM)thillan Wrote: Yes it was. I’m a fan, but not blind to the fact that this was a ridiculous signing. You can poke fun at your team and still be a fan

Was it really a ridiculous signing?  They looked back at Hart's performance last year and deemed his biggest issues were really untimely penalties.  I don't seem to remember any of those through 3 games.  He's 25, and he is very affordable, and I believe he is rating out around 60 on PFF thus far this season.   Isn't that around average?  Not saying he is ready for the Pro Bowl, but a lot of folks on here would have given up on Whit before he ever became a quality lineman.  Whit didn't start as a tackle until he was 28.

Hart is improving and has also stayed healthy...something Cordy Glenn, Jonah Williams, and Andre Smith have not.  

I get it was just an attempt to be funny, like when I call our kicker Fat Randy.  But I think the hatred directed at Hart is not warranted.  

[Bengalitis]

(09-23-2019, 08:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think you get one every time you suck up to a mod

That's a banable offense, that said, what's a mod? 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

To the letter of the rule Bullock could of had 55 plus yarder for the win. The bill taking his helmet off would have been half the distance to the goal. Bills would have punted from their own 10 5 seconds or so would have been left after fair catch.

[*bfine32*]

(09-23-2019, 10:09 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Two things:
 
2-I may have stars but you have Bengal's eyes....looks mysterious...

He's looking for my starts

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-23-2019, 06:51 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Like I said to the moron on Twitter, Ceej and Hopkins are also standing around doing **** all; why aren't you giving them the same treatment?

Its clearly the END of the play, give it up.

Thats what i see and Price still blocking hard. Miller looks to just be pulling a defender out of the way.

[fortyyearfan]

(09-23-2019, 02:04 PM)pally Wrote: I've been looking for a video of the incident and haven't found one.  Has anybody seen it?  Typically an ejection involving contact with a ref, especially that late in the game will result in a game suspension.  But, Hart is convinced he didn't touch the guy.

Once again these crooked refs threw a stinkin flag when there was nothing to throw it for.He DID NOT TOUCH the dude and for the thousandth time we are getting screwed by the refs they are out against us and no one can EVER convince me different.He probably did it because he is racist and doesn't care for anyone that is not his color.I bet he is from the deep south and I know some of these dudes are racist.I have Indian blood in my DNA and I have darker skin than a lot of my friends,but I am a white guy. I lobby for all the Indian race as they were wiped out by the so-called good white people.I am always trying to help anyone I can.I am a retired decorated Vietnam Veteran and a die-hard Trump supporter.I have many black folks that are good friends as well as Hispanic folks.We are ALL HERE trying to love our country and be good caring Americans.I hate it when people do things that are wrong against others and yes I support the border wall,my President and my great country and would die to protect her.I have been a die-hard Bengals fan for 50 years and will be until I go to the happy hunting grounds.I love all my brothers and sisters on here and always will.Our mighty Bengals will turn it around soon and greener pastures are coming.WHO-DEY!!!! :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy:

[fortyyearfan]

(09-24-2019, 03:52 AM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: If we didn't resign him... who would we start?

Who would be the tackles? Redmon? Westerman? Some of you don't think about reality before you complain. It is not like they put the Franchise Tag on the man. He is as young as just about every 1st rd OL pick in the draft (I think there was only a 1 in a few rounds).

We had to put someone out there, what other tackles were interested in coming here? He isn't an All-Pro tackle, but he hasn't been the biggest problem either. A lot of team's OL are not what they want.  A lot of teams are in need.
Who would you rather have at RT?

It is so easy to complain in hindsight, easier to complain when you are not realistic with the options we had...

Bobby Hart has been playing lights out lately I am glad he is here.I have been hard on him in the past but he seems to have ramped up his play and it shows.Andre Smith is one that is now getting beat by fast pass rushers.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-24-2019, 08:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Was it really a ridiculous signing?  They looked back at Hart's performance last year and deemed his biggest issues were really untimely penalties.  I don't seem to remember any of those through 3 games.  He's 25, and he is very affordable, and I believe he is rating out around 60 on PFF thus far this season.   Isn't that around average?  Not saying he is ready for the Pro Bowl, but a lot of folks on here would have given up on Whit before he ever became a quality lineman.  Whit didn't start as a tackle until he was 28.

Hart is improving and has also stayed healthy...something Cordy Glenn, Jonah Williams, and Andre Smith have not.  

I get it was just an attempt to be funny, like when I call our kicker Fat Randy.  But I think the hatred directed at Hart is not warranted.  

I think that as a 3rd Tackle he'll be valuable. He's just mis-cast as a starter.

I would have loved to see Jonah and Glenn as the Tackles with Hart as #3.

But, they viewed Hart as a Tackle and Glenn as a RG. Glenn did surrender a large amount of pressures last year.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

if trent williams ever ends his holdout. would Donald Penn be an upgrade over Andre. who knows how long Glenn will be out we cant count on him coming back at this point

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-24-2019, 08:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Was it really a ridiculous signing?  They looked back at Hart's performance last year and deemed his biggest issues were really untimely penalties.  I don't seem to remember any of those through 3 games.  He's 25, and he is very affordable, and I believe he is rating out around 60 on PFF thus far this season.   Isn't that around average?  Not saying he is ready for the Pro Bowl, but a lot of folks on here would have given up on Whit before he ever became a quality lineman.  Whit didn't start as a tackle until he was 28.

Hart is improving and has also stayed healthy...something Cordy Glenn, Jonah Williams, and Andre Smith have not.  

I get it was just an attempt to be funny, like when I call our kicker Fat Randy.  But I think the hatred directed at Hart is not warranted.  

I've been wondering where to put this and this looks like as good a place as any. We've all had discussions about PFF grades, pro and con (mostly con because there aren't too many Bengals with good grades), so i wanted to do an analysis of their grading--if it looked consistent in regards to what players are doing--to see if how they are producing equates objectively to their grade, and along with that, are the grades consistent from player to player on different teams. 

To answer your question first, he's grading out below average; that is, he's not one of the top 32 OTs currently. He's grading in about the 65th(maybe slightly better) percentile with an overall grade of 57.1. To give some context...
68.0 or better is in the top 25% (top 16)
61.0 or better is in the top 50% (top 32)
55.3 or better is in the top 75% (top 48), and, 
40.0 is the bottom (64th)

I've been as skeptical as anyone on their grading system. Always loved their raw numbers and the different statistical breakdowns they have. That's the reason i wanted to see how "fair" their grading system is; not necessarily based on how well or bad they played but if it looked consistent based on other players of the same position. I, surprisingly, found that they are (based on these limited examples) fair in how players graded, compared to their peers. 

Looking at starting OTs, i based this on hurries and pressures given up. I wanted to find players that had similar numbers so that i could look at their grades to see if they were consistent. The first group here gave up a hight number of each (by high, i mean they were near or at the worst). 

M.Moses WAS---147pbsn---RT---2sk---3hit---10hur---15pr---3pn---57.1pbgr---53.4rbgr---55.3ogr
G.Ifedi ---SEA---132pbsn---RT---2sk---0hit---11hur---13pr---5pn---47.7pbgr---66.3rbgr---54.8ogr
A.Smith --CIN---112pbsn---LT---2sk---1hit---10hur---13pr---4pn---56.4pbgr---52.0rbgr---51.2ogr
B.Hart  ---CIN---149pbsn---RT---1sk---0hit----9hur---10pr---1pn---62.7pbgr---50.9rbgr---57.1ogr
KEY: pbsn=pass block snaps, sk=sacks, hit=hits on QB, hur=hurries, pr=pressure, pn=penalties, pbgr=pass block grade, rbgr=run block grade, ogr=overall grade

From these four, Bobby Hart has the best pbgr @62.7, giving up the least amount, across the board, of sacks, hits, hurries, pressure and penalties while having the most snaps played. The others pretty much fall in line, giving up more or less in different categories. The overall grade looks to be pretty close to taking the pbgr and rbgr together and dividing it by two, with a slight variance...when snap count or other minor issues are added(maybe ?). I don't know exactly how their formula works.

The next group of four gave up a lesser amount in these categores.

C.Hubbard CLV---92pbsn---RL---2sk---0hit---1hur---3pr---3pn---73.8pbgr---42.8rbgr---55.1ogr
G.RobinsonCLV--101pbsn---LT---0sk---2hit---1hur---3pr---4pn---73.9pbgr---65.5rbgr---68.0ogr
M.McGlinch SF----99pbsn---RT---1sk---1hit---1hur---3pr---3pn---69.5pbgr---45.9rbgr---48.9ogr
T.Brown   OAK----91pbsn---RT---1sk---0hit---2hur---3pr---2pn---75.6pbgr---79.8rbgr---75.1ogr

This group seems to follow the previous group in that Brown has given up the least amount of sk, hit, hur, pr, pn in total but doesn't follow that formula strictly as you can see that McGlinchy has the worst of the 4, but not the overall worst numbers; though the grades are close enough that you can't claim any kind of bias or unfairness. 

The next group of four are the top 4 overall grades.

L.Collins DAL-----107pbsn---RT---0sk---0hit---1hur---1pr---2pn---79.3pbgr---91.2rbgr---90.6ogr
M.Schwartz KC---137pbsn---RT---0sk---2hit---2hur---4pr---1pn---78.8pbgr---83.5rbgr---84.6ogr
T.Smith   DAL----107pbsn---LT---0sk---0hit---0hur---0pr---1pn---90.3pbgr---73.2rbgr---83.6ogr
A.Castonz IND----111pbsn---LT---0sk---1hit---3hur---4pr---0pn---78.3pbgr---73.8rbgr---79.1ogr

If you look at 'given up', you can see that Smith has the highest pbgr because he's given up zilch on pressures and the rest, and the only thing that stands out to me is that Collins has a grade similar to Schwartz and Castonzo even though he's only given up 2 hur/pr while the other two have given up a total of 6 and 7 hur/pr and each have given up hits while Collins has zero there. Even though Smith has given up nothing as far as pressures, Collins has the overall top grade when you factor in his run block grade. 

So, i was a bit surprised to find that even though i may still not agree with how they say someone has played, and the grade they were given, at the very least they are fair across the board, the majority of the time, and consistent. So, i'd say i'm leaning towards looking at their grading system in a more positive light and i'll be more willing to cite it in the future. 

EDIT: I originally had "not leaning" when i meant that i am leaning.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2019, 04:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I've been wondering where to put this and this looks like as good a place as any. We've all had discussions about PFF grades, pro and con (mostly con because there aren't too many Bengals with good grades), so i wanted to do an analysis of their grading--if it looked consistent in regards to what players are doing--to see if how they are producing equates objectively to their grade, and along with that, are the grades consistent from player to player on different teams. 

To answer your question first, he's grading out below average; that is, he's not one of the top 32 OTs currently. He's grading in about the 65th(maybe slightly better) percentile with an overall grade of 57.1. To give some context...
68.0 or better is in the top 25% (top 16)
61.0 or better is in the top 50% (top 32)
55.3 or better is in the top 75% (top 48), and, 
40.0 is the bottom (64th)

I've been as skeptical as anyone on their grading system. Always loved their raw numbers and the different statistical breakdowns they have. That's the reason i wanted to see how "fair" their grading system is; not necessarily based on how well or bad they played but if it looked consistent based on other players of the same position. I, surprisingly, found that they are (based on these limited examples) fair in how players graded, compared to their peers. 

Looking at starting OTs, i based this on hurries and pressures given up. I wanted to find players that had similar numbers so that i could look at their grades to see if they were consistent. The first group here gave up a hight number of each (by high, i mean they were near or at the worst). 

M.Moses WAS---147pbsn---RT---2sk---3hit---10hur---15pr---3pn---57.1pbgr---53.4rbgr---55.3ogr
G.Ifedi ---SEA---132pbsn---RT---2sk---0hit---11hur---13pr---5pn---47.7pbgr---66.3rbgr---54.8ogr
A.Smith --CIN---112pbsn---LT---2sk---1hit---10hur---13pr---4pn---56.4pbgr---52.0rbgr---51.2ogr
B.Hart  ---CIN---149pbsn---RT---1sk---0hit----9hur---10pr---1pn---62.7pbgr---50.9rbgr---57.1ogr
KEY: pbsn=pass block snaps, sk=sacks, hit=hits on QB, hur=hurries, pr=pressure, pn=penalties, pbgr=pass block grade, rbgr=run block grade, ogr=overall grade

From these four, Bobby Hart has the best pbgr @62.7, giving up the least amount, across the board, of sacks, hits, hurries, pressure and penalties while having the most snaps played. The others pretty much fall in line, giving up more or less in different categories. The overall grade looks to be pretty close to taking the pbgr and rbgr together and dividing it by two, with a slight variance...when snap count or other minor issues are added(maybe ?). I don't know exactly how their formula works.

The next group of four gave up a lesser amount in these categores.

C.Hubbard CLV---92pbsn---RL---2sk---0hit---1hur---3pr---3pn---73.8pbgr---42.8rbgr---55.1ogr
G.RobinsonCLV--101pbsn---LT---0sk---2hit---1hur---3pr---4pn---73.9pbgr---65.5rbgr---68.0ogr
M.McGlinch SF----99pbsn---RT---1sk---1hit---1hur---3pr---3pn---69.5pbgr---45.9rbgr---48.9ogr
T.Brown   OAK----91pbsn---RT---1sk---0hit---2hur---3pr---2pn---75.6pbgr---79.8rbgr---75.1ogr

This group seems to follow the previous group in that Brown has given up the least amount of sk, hit, hur, pr, pn in total but doesn't follow that formula strictly as you can see that McGlinchy has the worst of the 4, but not the overall worst numbers; though the grades are close enough that you can't claim any kind of bias or unfairness. 

The next group of four are the top 4 overall grades.

L.Collins DAL-----107pbsn---RT---0sk---0hit---1hur---1pr---2pn---79.3pbgr---91.2rbgr---90.6ogr
M.Schwartz KC---137pbsn---RT---0sk---2hit---2hur---4pr---1pn---78.8pbgr---83.5rbgr---84.6ogr
T.Smith   DAL----107pbsn---LT---0sk---0hit---0hur---0pr---1pn---90.3pbgr---73.2rbgr---83.6ogr
A.Castonz IND----111pbsn---LT---0sk---1hit---3hur---4pr---0pn---78.3pbgr---73.8rbgr---79.1ogr

If you look at 'given up', you can see that Smith has the highest pbgr because he's given up zilch on pressures and the rest, and the only thing that stands out to me is that Collins has a grade similar to Schwartz and Castonzo even though he's only given up 2 hur/pr while the other two have given up a total of 6 and 7 hur/pr and each have given up hits while Collins has zero there. Even though Smith has given up nothing as far as pressures, Collins has the overall top grade when you factor in his run block grade. 

So, i was a bit surprised to find that even though i may still not agree with how they say someone has played, and the grade they were given, at the very least they are fair across the board, the majority of the time, and consistent. So, i'd say i'm not leaning towards looking at their grading system in a more positive light and i'll be more willing to cite it in the future. 

That's great analysis and thanks for putting in the time to do that.

I do think their grades are pretty decent, with the exception of DT and RB. They seem to rate DT's higher than I'd expect and RB's lower.

Pressure is interesting. Like some QB's are masters of moving 1-3 feet in the pocket and making a rusher just totally have no shot at them because the angle changed. Others (like Andy) are not that great at doing this. So a lineman on a team with a Tom Brady gets that benefit of Brady being crafty...which a guy like Dalton may get sacks. I think they try to take this into account.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-25-2019, 04:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's great analysis and thanks for putting in the time to do that.

I do think their grades are pretty decent, with the exception of DT and RB. They seem to rate DT's higher than I'd expect and RB's lower.

Pressure is interesting. Like some QB's are masters of moving 1-3 feet in the pocket and making a rusher just totally have no shot at them because the angle changed. Others (like Andy) are not that great at doing this. So a lineman on a team with a Tom Brady gets that benefit of Brady being crafty...which a guy like Dalton may get sacks. I think they try to take this into account.

Good points and when i get time, i'll probably look at other position groups as well, just to see if it's as consistent. 

It would be very interesting to see if they take things like (your example about Brady and Dalton) that into account. I'd lean towards thinking that they don't because it seems to me that would muddy things a bit too much. I'd lean towards betting it's simply, if you make the QB move from his spot, it's considered a pressure, regardless of QB. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2019, 06:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Good points and when i get time, i'll probably look at other position groups as well, just to see if it's as consistent. 

It would be very interesting to see if they take things like (your example about Brady and Dalton) that into account. I'd lean towards thinking that they don't because it seemsto to me that would muddy things a bit too much. I'd lean towards betting it's simply, if you make the QB move from his spot, it's considered a pressure, regardless of QB. 

Pressures probably are that simple.

For other positions, I've seen a qb make what's deemed a bad throw that gets caught that negatively shows on the qb.

RBs making bad blocks. For instance, Mixon never grades out well on a season.

DT is weird. No matter who we rotated in last year, seems like they graded atleast 70.

I'd be interested in where we had a thread and posted things we found about grading, etc.