The LBer issue, is there a fix ?

[fortyyearfan]

(09-25-2019, 11:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd like to see more of Pratt. It sure seems it couldn't get worse ?

Off topic - there was a Bills pass play which IIRC went for a pretty big gain, where Geno was getting the dog $hit held out of him. The Olineman was fully behind him holding on for dear life. Should be used as ref training film ! How do they miss that ? and it was right out in the open.

They the refs allow holding against us in every game and to me NFL football has become the refs game as they can make any team they want a winner and they for sure wanted the Bills to win as holding was so bad,the whole world could see that.I DVR'd the game and watched it again and paused a lot of line stuff to watch slowly.The holding was just terrible and until ZT and the D-line starts bitching about it and calling the league and filing a formal complaint,it will never stop.Talk about holding,just watch Pitts O-line,they are classic holders and get by with it all game.I am telling you,football anymore is just FIXED AND CROOKED.I Am beginning to hate it. :paul: :paul: :paul: :paul: :paul: :paul:

[*Synric*]

(09-25-2019, 01:40 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: We for sure need a dominate linebacker and to date they have not found one that fits here and that is a problem,Pitt is going to be throwing to the tightends all night and that will just kill us.To beat them we have to score at least 30

Steelers biggest threat at Tight End Vance McDonald is injured so they just made a trade to Seattle for Nick Vannet but I doubt he will be ready for Monday.

It looks like the Steelers will be relying on Grimble and rookie Gentry. 

Edit: Steelers are out 1st (Fitzpatrick) and 5th (Vannet) round picks in the 2020 Draft.

[coachmcneil71]

The fix isn't coming in this season. First, sign AJ; period!! The draft next season should consist of one QB, at least three LBs, and three O-Lineman. Then sign some skill players as UDFAs. That's how this abysmal situation can be fixed.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2019, 11:15 AM)Au165 Wrote: Pratt has actually been one of the better rookie linebackers this year, the issue is rookie LB's tend to take a while to get good. That will make the unit better later this season, but it won't be good this year.

Yeah...it's false that rookie LB's take time to get good. Some do, but guys like Leonard in Indy stepped in and played great as a rookie. Every year that are some rookie LBs that do it. Vander Esch for the Cowboys is another.

There are more.

LB in fact, seems to be one position where rookies drafted in later rounds have a chance to be quality starters Year 1. 

[J24]

(09-25-2019, 12:53 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: only thing you can do right now is trade away draft picks for a player....  which might be something if we were contending and just lost a guy.

there isn't any upgrades sitting on the street.     So you turn to the draft next year as being 0-3 is not the time to give up draft picks for a player.

I have multiple problems with this.
1.) We're only two games back behind the Ravens and this is before one division game.
2.) What if the LB is a long term solution to the problem?
3.) If it's a first or second ok but what's the likely hood a 5th Rd pick makes that huge of a difference for example?
4.) At some point this team is going to have to take risks to be good.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2019, 04:40 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I have multiple problems with this.
1.) We're only two games back behind the Ravens and this is before one division game.
2.) What if the LB is a long term solution to the problem?
3.) If it's a first or second ok but what's the likely hood a 5th Rd pick makes that huge of a difference for example?
4.) At some point this team is going to have to take risks to be good.

1 ) 2 Games back - 3 Games into the year is a big thing.
2 ) Yes - You have to evaluate the player and IF they improve you for a few years, then it may be worth it. Honestly, most of our draft picks wash out anyways so if you can get a proven NFL player, then it's a solid move.
3 ) Yes! - That was my point in #2 also...and it is a GREAT point.
4 ) Precisely - We have probably 6-7 bad starters. To win in the NFL, we need to upgrade them to atleast league average. We won't do that through the draft alone.

[J24]

(09-25-2019, 04:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 1 ) 2 Games back - 3 Games into the year is a big thing.
2 ) Yes - You have to evaluate the player and IF they improve you for a few years, then it may be worth it. Honestly, most of our draft picks wash out anyways so if you can get a proven NFL player, then it's a solid move.
3 ) Yes! - That was my point in #2 also...and it is a GREAT point.
4 ) Precisely - We have probably 6-7 bad starters. To win in the NFL, we need to upgrade them to atleast league average. We won't do that through the draft alone.

There is plenty of time to it turn it around. If we hypothetically got Trent Williams & Cory Littleton right now this team window gets much bigger.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2019, 05:01 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: There is plenty of time to it turn it around. If we hypothetically got Trent Williams & Cory Littleton right now this team window gets much bigger.

They would NEVER trade for Williams and pay his salary along with Glenn and Smith and Jonah.

Honestly, Trent Williams is Cordy Glenn.

Littleton? Yeah - I'd make that trade right now. 3rd Round pick. That would be such a nice upgrade.

[Au165]

(09-25-2019, 03:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...it's false that rookie LB's take time to get good. Some do, but guys like Leonard in Indy stepped in and played great as a rookie. Every year that are some rookie LBs that do it. Vander Esch for the Cowboys is another.

There are more.

LB in fact, seems to be one position where rookies drafted in later rounds have a chance to be quality starters Year 1. 

Your using recency bias. Guys like Wagner, Kuechly, Leonard are elite level talents and yes had great rookie years. In general Rookie linebackers, especially early in the year, struggle. There isn’t a rookie linebacker this year who has graded above a 69 yet on the season. By the back half of the year you have a better idea who they are.

[scorp1974]

Yes...get new players. Draft a top LB, trade for younger good players and be active in free agency at the beginning.

Stop signing older players 3 months into free agency trying to save a few bucks.

[J24]

(09-25-2019, 05:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They would NEVER trade for Williams and pay his salary along with Glenn and Smith and Jonah.

Honestly, Trent Williams is Cordy Glenn.

Littleton? Yeah - I'd make that trade right now. 3rd Round pick. That would be such a nice upgrade.

That's why I said hypothetically lol.

[J24]

(09-25-2019, 05:25 PM)scorp1974 Wrote: Yes...get new players.  Draft a top LB, trade for younger good players and be active in free agency at the beginning.

Stop signing older players 3 months into free agency trying to save a few bucks.

They didn't sign old players though; Miller & Brown are both young.

[Dean_Gilberry95]

(09-25-2019, 11:39 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Marvin came in as a defensive and especially LB guru and failed over and over again to draft one who turned out decent. Burfict was the only one who played well and he was a boom or bust guy with high risk. He definitely left the cupboard bare in his supposedly specialty area. Its pretty sad imo.

Anyone can become a guru when they “coach” Ray Lewis. Lol

[ezekiel23]

There is no quick fix for this situation.With time they should get better.I was proud of our defense the way they held up against the Bills.They were just on the field way to long.

[scorp1974]

(09-25-2019, 05:27 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: They didn't sign old players though; Miller & Brown are both young.

But they are both trash....

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-25-2019, 11:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd like to see more of Pratt. It sure seems it couldn't get worse ?

Off topic - there was a Bills pass play which IIRC went for a pretty big gain, where Geno was getting the dog $hit held out of him. The Olineman was fully behind him holding on for dear life. Should be used as ref training film ! How do they miss that ? and it was right out in the open.

Yep. I remember that Geno play. Right out in the open, clear as day and no flag. 

[*psychdoctor*]

I don't think the Cincinnati Bengals can fix both position groups that is linebacker and offensive line in one draft. I think they could sign a quality linebacker in free agency but the offensive lines going to have to be fixed the next two years the via the draft.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-25-2019, 11:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd like to see more of Pratt. It sure seems it couldn't get worse ?

Off topic - there was a Bills pass play which IIRC went for a pretty big gain, where Geno was getting the dog $hit held out of him. The Olineman was fully behind him holding on for dear life. Should be used as ref training film ! How do they miss that ? and it was right out in the open.

It's because of Bills Mafia!  They decided to leverage Goodell to force the officials to "keep it fair" for the Bills.  And by leverage, I mean they might have threatened him with broken bones, missing digits, or even concrete shoes..

Whatever their tactics, Bills Mafia! isn't to be trifled with..  

[HarleyDog]

(09-25-2019, 06:53 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't think the Cincinnati Bengals can fix both position groups that is linebacker and offensive line in one draft.  I think they could sign a quality linebacker in free agency but the offensive lines going to have to be fixed the next two years the via the draft.

I honestly think you fix the LB issue first because a good defense wins games. If we were going to spend money though, I agree that we throw the cash at LB, but not ridiculous amounts. I would rather have 2 good LBs than one overpaid great one. But then again, we have no depth at LB so we could end up spending a lot of money shoring that up. Idk. We gotta do something tho. I would like to sign some quality guys to the line as well. And not Bobby Hart guys. We just need guys who are going to do the job. 

It's starting to look like we made some pretty foolish signings before the season but if I'm correct, we have outs on those. Damn, now I'm more conflicted than when I started writing this reply. ZT needs to work on MB on the win now attitude. Not saying MB is the problem because he's not as tight as many portray, but he could be more aggressive in FA and stop bargain shopping.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2019, 05:11 PM)Au165 Wrote: Your using recency bias. Guys like Wagner, Kuechly, Leonard are elite level talents and yes had great rookie years. In general Rookie linebackers, especially early in the year, struggle. There isn’t a rookie linebacker this year who has graded above a 69 yet on the season. By the back half of the year you have a better idea who they are.

A rookie LB that graded 65 is much better that Brown and Vigil. I'd take that right now.