The LBer issue, is there a fix ?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-25-2019, 11:15 AM)Au165 Wrote: Pratt has actually been one of the better rookie linebackers this year, the issue is rookie LB's tend to take a while to get good. That will make the unit better later this season, but it won't be good this year.

Pratt has been good in a very limited number of snaps. 

Meanwhile, that guy everyone was clamoring for...the guy Pitt took "in front of us"...has been a decent in tackle numbers but he's been baaaaad in coverage, giving up 16 receptions in 19 targets, 9.8ypr, 2tds and a passer rating against of 136.0

Meanwhile meanwhile, Brown and Vigil haven't been much better. Brown is worse and Vigil is just a little better in coverage. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-25-2019, 11:22 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I wonder how much better our defense looks if they all learned how to tackle properly.

That's a good questions, cause currently they're dead last in tackling grade at 39.7. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-25-2019, 01:47 PM)Synric Wrote: Steelers biggest threat at Tight End Vance McDonald is injured so they just made a trade to Seattle for Nick Vannet but I doubt he will be ready for Monday.

It looks like the Steelers will be relying on Grimble and rookie Gentry. 

Edit: Steelers are out 1st (Fitzpatrick) and 5th (Vannet) round picks in the 2020 Draft.

Steelers just put Grimble on IR. 

[XsandOs]

Reality is that Bengals are not scoring on offense.

The league average is right around 22.5 points per game. That is over several years.

In two out of three games, we have given up less than that (21 points per game), but scored 18.5 per game. We are averaging 18 points per game for all three games.

If we can keep 2/3 of the Teams to less than 22.5, then we have a chance.

But it seems that we need to keep opposing Teams below 18 points to win. Which is difficult given our OL issues and AJ injury.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-25-2019, 07:54 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Reality is that Bengals are not scoring on offense.

The league average is right around 22.5 points per game. That is over several years.

In two out of three games, we have given up less than that (21 points per game), but scored 18.5 per game. We are averaging 18 points per game for all three games.

If we can keep 2/3 of the Teams to less than 22.5, then we have a chance.

But it seems that we need to keep opposing Teams below 18 points to win. Which is difficult given our OL issues and AJ injury.

Exactly, there's nothing wrong with this team, that scoring points won't cure.  

[J24]

(09-25-2019, 06:41 PM)scorp1974 Wrote: But they are both trash....

Miller is actually decent but yeah Brown is bad. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-25-2019, 08:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Exactly, there's nothing wrong with this team, that scoring points won't cure.  

And to do that we have to get the running game going. It fixes or at least helps to fix a lot of problems. If our LBers are on the field for 5 minutes less a game they can't be exposed so much.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-25-2019, 05:11 PM)Au165 Wrote: Your using recency bias. Guys like Wagner, Kuechly, Leonard are elite level talents and yes had great rookie years. In general Rookie linebackers, especially early in the year, struggle. There isn’t a rookie linebacker this year who has graded above a 69 yet on the season. By the back half of the year you have a better idea who they are.

Technically, Mack Wilson is 69.7  

[SunsetBengal]

(09-25-2019, 08:29 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And to do that we have to get the running game going. It fixes or at least helps to fix a lot of problems. If our LBers are on the field for 5 minutes less a game they can't be exposed so much.

Yep, Offense and Defense are completely inverse, when it comes to benefiting from more time on the field.  

It's really kind of sad that Jonah is injured, Boling has retired, and now Glenn is out seemingly indefinitely.  With those three bodies ready and available to play, this offense likely could have been a force.

[HarleyDog]

(09-25-2019, 08:29 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And to do that we have to get the running game going. It fixes or at least helps to fix a lot of problems. If our LBers are on the field for 5 minutes less a game they can't be exposed so much.

Very good point. These guys are working too hard and the offense has to find a way to extend drives and give these guys a rest. 1 first down in the first half last week (which didn't come until 2:06 left in the half). isn't the answer. Our defense basically played 3qtrs of football before the half. That's not good. But they did keep them, although fatigued, to 14 points. So that's a pretty bad ass smiley face on their report card. So then we have to look at the offense and ask "WHY?" And I'm sure ZT is asking the same questions, right along with Andy.

Now, with the first paragraph sounding somewhat negative, I'm going to dump my thoughts on what to expect in Pittsburgh. ZT did very well preparing his team for game 1 in the loudest stadium in the league. So far, Seattle beat us by 1, beat Pitt by 2 and loss to Saints by 6 (impressive) so their respectable by all means. Then, we took a beating against the 49ers (3-0). The mistakes he seen he tried to address in the 3rd game against Buffalo (2-0 at the time). The offense was horrible in the first half but scored 17 unanswered points in the 2nd to take the lead. The defense rocked considering the amount of time they were on the field. Mixon showed signs of getting it together (which is huge cause you know the line was a major focus on opening up lanes - but most of it was Mixon), and so on and so forth.

So on my drive home from work I got stewing about the 4 three & outs in the start of the first half. The only other drives were a fumble and, again, the 1st, first down, of a 5 play drive (smh). What if these coaches are working so hard at getting these players to click together than they are game planning on film against the next opponent? I know, sounds weird, but hear me out. You first got to play as a functional team before you can plan to use your strengths against another teams weaknesses. Maybe we just haven't been there yet?

I'm sure they've busted ass this week to right the ship. These guys believe in their coach and want to play for him. Hopefully we have seen some strengths we can use against our opponents? We will play those bastards in their house and I think we are going to be better prepared than we have been. I know, I have a lot of hopes and maybes, but the Dogs tail is wagging on this one.

ZT has been decent at adjusting so far. The rival is real against Pittsburgh and this could actually be our turning point (maybe a little homerism in there). But I actually think we win this game Monday night. Oh shit, this thread is about LB'ers. Yes, they do well this week.

[XsandOs]

(09-25-2019, 09:40 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Very good point. These guys are working too hard and the offense has to find a way to extend drives and give these guys a rest. 1 first down in the first half last week (which didn't come until 2:06 left in the half). isn't the answer. Our defense basically played 3qtrs of football before the half. That's not good. But they did keep them, although fatigued, to 14 points. So that's a pretty bad ass smiley face on their report card. So then we have to look at the offense and ask "WHY?" And I'm sure ZT is asking the same questions, right along with Andy.

Now, with the first paragraph sounding somewhat negative, I'm going to dump my thoughts on what to expect in Pittsburgh. ZT did very well preparing his team for game 1 in the loudest stadium in the league. So far, Seattle beat us by 1, beat Pitt by 2 and loss to Saints by 6 (impressive) so their respectable by all means. Then, we took a beating against the 49ers (3-0). The mistakes he seen he tried to address in the 3rd game against Buffalo (2-0 at the time). The offense was horrible in the first half but scored 17 unanswered points in the 2nd to take the lead. The defense rocked considering the amount of time they were on the field. Mixon showed signs of getting it together (which is huge cause you know the line was a major focus on opening up lanes - but most of it was Mixon), and so on and so forth.

So on my drive home from work I got stewing about the 4 three & outs in the start of the first half. The only other drives were a fumble and, again, the 1st, first down, of a 5 play drive (smh). What if these coaches are working so hard at getting these players to click together than they are game planning on film against the next opponent? I know, sounds weird, but hear me out. You first got to play as a functional team before you can plan to use your strengths against another teams weaknesses. Maybe we just haven't been there yet?

I'm sure they've busted ass this week to right the ship. These guys believe in their coach and want to play for him. Hopefully we have seen some strengths we can use against our opponents? We will play those bastards in their house and I think we are going to be better prepared than we have been. I know, I have a lot of hopes and maybes, but the Dogs tail is wagging on this one.

ZT has been decent at adjusting so far. The rival is real against Pittsburgh and this could actually be our turning point (maybe a little homerism in there). But I actually think we win this game Monday night. Oh shit, this thread is about LB'ers. Yes, they do well this week.

Good points.

The offensive issue, specific to the run game, is that there is no respect for the pass game. Defenses know that they can get to Dalton in under 2 seconds. Dalton is on pace to get sacked 60 time this year.

So they bring their SS in the box, who can drop in zone if it's not a run.

Basically they are suffocating anything short to mid range, because they know Dalton won't get enough time for any deep routes.

After the Seattle game, the blueprint on us is simple. No OL equals no run and no deep routes.

And that is exactly what Pitt will do. Zone blitzes and secondary squatting on short and intermediate routes.

On another note, I'm surprised that it took this long for a player to abuse the concussion mandate.......a non-quantifiable injury.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-25-2019, 10:51 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: While Pratt didn't have an all-star showing last week, one thing I did see him do was set the edge which netted in a few run stuffs.  He also got held and prevented from tackling their RB on what's deemed his worst play, but as we all saw the Bills didn't get holding calls.  

Two hands outside, a bear-hug, and basically tackled to the ground.  RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE OFFICIAL, and it sprang Gore.  I hope to God someone at Bengal HQ is making videos and sending them to Goodell.  I would also distribute them on sites like ours so people can draw more attention to this crap.  In the era of social media, they shouldn't get away with this crap.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-26-2019, 10:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Two hands outside, a bear-hug, and basically tackled to the ground.  RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE OFFICIAL, and it sprang Gore.  I hope to God someone at Bengal HQ is making videos and sending them to Goodell.  I would also distribute them on sites like ours so people can draw more attention to this crap.  In the era of social media, they shouldn't get away with this crap.  

Add in the very blatant hold right out in the open that was "missed" on Geno that went for a large gain for the Bills. And the very ticky tack hold called on Tate on the kick return and that's 3 game changing plays right there.

Usually 3 or 4 plays determine the outcome of NFL games.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-25-2019, 10:21 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Good points.

The offensive issue, specific to the run game, is that there is no respect for the pass game. Defenses know that they can get to Dalton in under 2 seconds. Dalton is on pace to get sacked 60 time this year.

So they bring their SS in the box, who can drop in zone if it's not a run.

Basically they are suffocating anything short to mid range, because they know Dalton won't get enough time for any deep routes.

After the Seattle game, the blueprint on us is simple. No OL equals no run and no deep routes.

And that is exactly what Pitt will do. Zone blitzes and secondary squatting on short and intermediate routes.

On another note, I'm surprised that it took this long for a player to abuse the concussion mandate.......a non-quantifiable injury.

I don't understand why they don't do more roll out/sprint out type of plays?  Andy is quite mobile, and has proven to be an effective runner, when ever he does.  I understand that many don't like roll out/sprint out plays, as it essentially cuts off 1/2 of the field for the defense to cover.  I'm not suggesting that they should do it a dozen times/game, just throw a couple in there to give the defenses something to think about, rather than just rushing straight up field every down..

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-26-2019, 10:47 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't understand why they don't do more roll out/sprint out type of plays?  Andy is quite mobile, and has proven to be an effective runner, when ever he does.  I understand that many don't like roll out/sprint out plays, as it essentially cuts off 1/2 of the field for the defense to cover.  I'm not suggesting that they should do it a dozen times/game, just throw a couple in there to give the defenses something to think about, rather than just rushing straight up field every down..

Yep

And I know Dalton isn't a speed demon,  however. What's wrong with a designed QB draw every once in a while ? Catch em in man to man and just take off. Like you say give em something else to consider.

There was a play or two in the Bills game where it looked like a lot of open green out there and he threw it away.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2019, 10:58 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

And I know Dalton isn't a speed demon,  however. What's wrong with a designed QB draw every once in a while ? Catch em in man to man and just take off. Like you say give em something else to consider.

There was a play or two in the Bills game where it looked like a lot of open green out there and he threw it away.

Yeah or even a bootleg where he throws from outside the pocket?

I have to say, our offense is much more vanilla than I had hoped. The execution has generally been poor too as we're dependent on big plays to score.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-26-2019, 10:58 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

And I know Dalton isn't a speed demon,  however. What's wrong with a designed QB draw every once in a while ? Catch em in man to man and just take off. Like you say give em something else to consider.

There was a play or two in the Bills game where it looked like a lot of open green out there and he threw it away.

I noticed the same thing a few times in the SF game.  In fact, he could have just stepped up in the pocket a bit on those same plays, and found the extra time for a receiver to make his separation.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-26-2019, 11:06 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah or even a bootleg where he throws from outside the pocket?

I have to say, our offense is much more vanilla than I had hoped. The execution has generally been poor too as we're dependent on big plays to score.

Bootleg, that was the word that was escaping me.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-26-2019, 11:17 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Bootleg, that was the word that was escaping me.

This will jog your memory

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2019, 11:16 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I noticed the same thing a few times in the SF game.  In fact, he could have just stepped up in the pocket a bit on those same plays, and found the extra time for a receiver to make his separation.

That pocket presence thing where you step up a couple feet and the rusher can't get you but you give yourself an extra 2-3 seconds...is probably my biggest criticism of Dalton.

Guys like Manning and Brady have that. I think it elevates a QB's play to the next tier because defenses can only cover so long and giving yourself an extra couple seconds allows guys to come open.