Mookie Betts

[*psychdoctor*]

I saw an article by Doug Grey that the Reds should go after CF Mookie Betts. I do not know if the Reds would need to trade Senzel as part of the deal but Boston looks to be shaving some of payroll. If the Reds acquired Betts and extended his contract, I think would elevate the Reds at a position of need.

Betts' career average stats:
age: 26
.301 BA
28 HR
SB about 26
2018 WAR of about 11
2019 WAR about 7
SLG of .519
former MVP candidate

If the Reds could also keep Senzel and move him to 2nd. Leave the Punisher in RF. The extension of Iggy or Galvis at SS. It would leave needs at Closer, a couple relievers and one SP.

Any thoughts?

[Circleville Guy]

You’ve identified a great player at a position of need! Now for the but part.... he’s probably gonna sign a 300 million dollar contract and that makes this a hard No for me. The team just can’t put all of its pennies in one jar! They have several needs to address.

[guyofthetiger]

I would like Mookie but like the previous poster said it will take a huge contract. Votto has locked that up for a while. Unless the Reds can pull off another Homer deal.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-02-2019, 10:43 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I would like Mookie but like the previous poster said it will take a huge contract. Votto has locked that up for a while. Unless the Reds can pull off another Homer deal.

Mookie is the real deal.  As far as I know, he does not have psychological issues like Votto (GAD) and Bailey (insolence).  He would change this francise and is just 26.  Votto is 36 and still has 4 more years on his contract.  

[Circleville Guy]

(10-02-2019, 04:11 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Mookie is the real deal.  As far as I know, he does not have psychological issues like Votto (GAD) and Bailey (insolence).  He would change this francise and is just 36.  Votto is 36 and still has 4 more years on his contract.  

He would have to change the franchise on his own because the Reds wouldn’t be able to afford to add much else and they need help in several areas. I can’t name one long term deal that the Reds have signed that has worked out well. He’s gonna want an 8-12 year deal. Let’s say he gets hurt and comes back but just isn’t the same. The Reds are then stuck again for a decade of last place. I just don’t agree with the possible sacrifice of a decade on one guy. The Reds need to develop players and also trade for guys still under control at a bargain price. I do think that he’s a good player but someone will go long term on a contract. The Reds shouldn’t sign anyone at all for longer than 6 years and preferably 4 years. They can’t sacrifice 5 bad years to get 5 good years at 30 million a year.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-02-2019, 04:26 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: He would have to change the franchise on his own because the Reds wouldn’t be able to afford to add much else and they need help in several areas. I can’t name one long term deal that the Reds have signed that has worked out well. He’s gonna want an 8-12 year deal. Let’s say he gets hurt and comes back but just isn’t the same. The Reds are then stuck again for a decade of last place. I just don’t agree with the possible sacrifice of a decade on one guy. The Reds need to develop players and also trade for guys still under control at a bargain price. I do think that he’s a good player but someone will go long term on a contract. The Reds shouldn’t sign anyone at all for longer than 6 years and preferably 4 years. They can’t sacrifice 5 bad years to get 5 good years at 30 million a year.

Give him 8 years contract.  I think he has been healthy for most of his career.  
I get what you are saying.  But Reds need a difference maker and Betts is just that.  

[Circleville Guy]

(10-02-2019, 04:30 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Give him 8 years contract.  I think he has been healthy for most of his career.  
I get what you are saying.  But Reds need a difference maker and Betts is just that.  

And if someone else offers him a longer term or 30 million a year?

[Circleville Guy]

(10-02-2019, 04:30 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Give him 8 years contract.  I think he has been healthy for most of his career.  
I get what you are saying.  But Reds need a difference maker and Betts is just that.  

And if you do sign him you may still be able to add a couple of mediocre relievers but you’ll have to ignore a 5th starter, closer, SS, catcher anD LF upgrades for the next 5 years. The dude better be Superman each year or it’s last place and probably 3rd place if he’s all that’s added to the current roster. I’m not saying that I’m right, just my 2 cents.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-03-2019, 12:03 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: And if you do sign him you may still be able to add a couple of mediocre relievers but you’ll have to ignore a 5th starter, closer, SS, catcher anD LF upgrades for the next 5 years. The dude better be Superman each year or it’s last place and probably 3rd place if he’s all that’s added to the current roster. I’m not saying that I’m right, just my 2 cents.

Betts had votes for MVP 3 years in the American league.  Maybe get Betts and a couple relievers. Front Office said they are spending this year...They are also looking at Grandall..

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-02-2019, 11:58 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: And if someone else offers him a longer term or 30 million a year?

Then I would pass.  

[kevin]

(10-01-2019, 06:54 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I saw an article by Doug Grey that the Reds should go after CF Mookie Betts.  I do not know if the Reds would need to trade Senzel as part of the deal but Boston looks to be shaving some of payroll.  If the Reds acquired Betts and extended his contract, I think would elevate the Reds at a position of need.  

Betts' career average stats:
age: 26
.301 BA
28 HR
SB about 26
2018 WAR of about 11
2019 WAR about 7
SLG of .519
former MVP candidate

If the Reds could also keep Senzel and move him to 2nd.  Leave the Punisher in RF.  The extension of Iggy or Galvis at SS.  It would leave needs at Closer, a couple relievers and one SP.  

Any thoughts?

Reds can't afford him.  They can't afford Votto either.   Tonight Tampa and Oakland were in play-offs by their front offices being smarter than Reds front office.  They don't over spend, they find good players that fall between the cracks, they field play-off teams.  Tampa in last week took 3 of 4 from Red Sox and swept Yankees with half the payroll of those teams.  

Reds have Van Meter, Senzel, Ervin, Aquino.  So why all this worry about Reds outfield ?   Reds worry should be how to dump Votto contract.   The Reds have more good young outfielders than they have outfield position, although Van Meter says he would play 2nd base which is a natural position for him like Pete Rose in his early years. 

Forget all this WAR nonsense and pointless stats.   Reds Can't Afford Betts.  Salary is a stat also and Betts is over paid. Votto even more over paid.  Payroll and Wins are the 2 stats Reds need to worry about.  Winning with half the payroll of the Yankees as Tampa and Oakland do.  Reds need to have Van Meter, Senzel, Ervin, Aqiono at reasonable payroll prices as rookies, and THAT is a good outfield.   Reds can use more Pitching.  I can't see paying damaged goods Wood.  Mahle stinks.  They have Castillo & Gray.  They will go with Bauer but he won't be here long if he doesn't deliver.  Disco has enough good games to stick with longer, but no big contract.  That Reds top pick pitcher in minors had major injury.  As Sweet Lou use to say, never stop looking for pitching.   

Really forget how fast a home run leaves the yard.  The TV nerds are getting into too many computer nerd stats.  A home run is a home run, period.   Reds main stats are W.A.H.P.A.Y.  or Wins At Half Payroll As Yankees.   That is the only Stat Reds need to concern themselves with.  They have a good young outfield.  They could use more pitching.  The A's and Rays would dump Votto and they would not add the paycheck of Mookie because...REDS CAN'T AFFORD IT. ....W.A.H.P.A.Y. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-03-2019, 03:44 AM)kevin Wrote: Reds can't afford him.  They can't afford Votto either.   Tonight Tampa and Oakland were in play-offs by their front offices being smarter than Reds front office.  They don't over spend, they find good players that fall between the cracks, they field play-off teams.  Tampa in last week took 3 of 4 from Red Sox and swept Yankees with half the payroll of those teams.  

Reds have Van Meter, Senzel, Ervin, Aquino.  So why all this worry about Reds outfield ?   Reds worry should be how to dump Votto contract.   The Reds have more good young outfielders than they have outfield position, although Van Meter says he would play 2nd base which is a natural position for him like Pete Rose in his early years. 

Forget all this WAR nonsense and pointless stats.   Reds Can't Afford Betts.  Salary is a stat also and Betts is over paid. Votto even more over paid.  Payroll and Wins are the 2 stats Reds need to worry about.  Winning with half the payroll of the Yankees as Tampa and Oakland do.  Reds need to have Van Meter, Senzel, Ervin, Aqiono at reasonable payroll prices as rookies, and THAT is a good outfield.   Reds can use more Pitching.  I can't see paying damaged goods Wood.  Mahle stinks.  They have Castillo & Gray.  They will go with Bauer but he won't be here long if he doesn't deliver.  Disco has enough good games to stick with longer, but no big contract.  That Reds top pick pitcher in minors had major injury.  As Sweet Lou use to say, never stop looking for pitching.   

Really forget how fast a home run leaves the yard.  The TV nerds are getting into too many computer nerd stats.  A home run is a home run, period.   Reds main stats are W.A.H.P.A.Y.  or Wins At Half Payroll As Yankees.   That is the only Stat Reds need to concern themselves with.  They have a good young outfield.  They could use more pitching.  The A's and Rays would dump Votto and they would not add the paycheck of Mookie because...REDS CAN'T AFFORD IT. ....W.A.H.P.A.Y. 

What did JVM do this year with extended play?  Was he a difference maker?

[Circleville Guy]

(10-03-2019, 01:56 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: Betts had votes for MVP 3 years in the American league.  Maybe get Betts and a couple relievers. Front Office said they are spending this year...They are also looking at Grandall..

They can’t afford both Betts and Grandal.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-03-2019, 01:44 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: They can’t afford both Betts and Grandal.

I know.  Remember that Betts would be under control for another year on his current contract. I think Grandal is too expensive for what he brings but the fact they are still looking at a catcher is something of interest.

[Circleville Guy]

(10-03-2019, 03:44 AM)kevin Wrote: Reds can't afford him.  They can't afford Votto either.   Tonight Tampa and Oakland were in play-offs by their front offices being smarter than Reds front office.  They don't over spend, they find good players that fall between the cracks, they field play-off teams.  Tampa in last week took 3 of 4 from Red Sox and swept Yankees with half the payroll of those teams.  

Reds have Van Meter, Senzel, Ervin, Aquino.  So why all this worry about Reds outfield ?   Reds worry should be how to dump Votto contract.   The Reds have more good young outfielders than they have outfield position, although Van Meter says he would play 2nd base which is a natural position for him like Pete Rose in his early years. 

Forget all this WAR nonsense and pointless stats.   Reds Can't Afford Betts.  Salary is a stat also and Betts is over paid. Votto even more over paid.  Payroll and Wins are the 2 stats Reds need to worry about.  Winning with half the payroll of the Yankees as Tampa and Oakland do.  Reds need to have Van Meter, Senzel, Ervin, Aqiono at reasonable payroll prices as rookies, and THAT is a good outfield.   Reds can use more Pitching.  I can't see paying damaged goods Wood.  Mahle stinks.  They have Castillo & Gray.  They will go with Bauer but he won't be here long if he doesn't deliver.  Disco has enough good games to stick with longer, but no big contract.  That Reds top pick pitcher in minors had major injury.  As Sweet Lou use to say, never stop looking for pitching.   

Really forget how fast a home run leaves the yard.  The TV nerds are getting into too many computer nerd stats.  A home run is a home run, period.   Reds main stats are W.A.H.P.A.Y.  or Wins At Half Payroll As Yankees.   That is the only Stat Reds need to concern themselves with.  They have a good young outfield.  They could use more pitching.  The A's and Rays would dump Votto and they would not add the paycheck of Mookie because...REDS CAN'T AFFORD IT. ....W.A.H.P.A.Y. 

I think you’re both right and wrong. The Reds can’t afford big dollars contracts if they are long term. If they can afford to gamble, at least don’t make it a decade long gamble. Rolling with the guys that you list is rolling on question marks. Senzel can’t seem to stay healthy and wasn’t that great when he was but is worth gambling on as a starter. Van Meter looks crazy bad with a glove and feels like a backup. Aquino has pure power but did he just have a Dietrich hot run or is he for real? I agree it’s worth finding out. I’ve always graded Ervin as a 4th Outfielder. They should have known what Ervin is like 2-3 years ago. He may be starter worthy but again, he’s a question mark. 3B is the only non question mark that the Reds have signed as a position player, think about that for a minute.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-03-2019, 01:58 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I think you’re both right and wrong. The Reds can’t afford big dollars contracts if they are long term. If they can afford to gamble, at least don’t make it a decade long gamble. Rolling with the guys that you list is rolling on question marks. Senzel can’t seem to stay healthy and wasn’t that great when he was but is worth gambling on as a starter. Van Meter looks crazy bad with a glove and feels like a backup. Aquino has pure power but did he just have a Dietrich hot run or is he for real? I agree it’s worth finding out. I’ve always graded Ervin as a 4th Outfielder. They should have known what Ervin is like 2-3 years ago. He may be starter worthy but again, he’s a question mark. 3B is the only non question mark that the Reds have signed as a position player, think about that for a minute.

I think Gray is solid.  So there is that. 

[Circleville Guy]

(10-03-2019, 01:50 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I know.  Remember that Betts would be under control for another year on his current contract. I think Grandal is too expensive for what he brings but the fact they are still looking at a catcher is something of interest.

I agree on Grandal, I don’t like that signing idea.

[Circleville Guy]

(10-03-2019, 02:03 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think Gray is solid.  So there is that. 

Lol... Yep, he did look good. There are many ways to improve the team. The Reds will probably use half measures and compete for third place. I’m guessing that they’ll do enough to finally be above .500. The sad thing is that in Cincinnati, that’s good enough for the fans. It seems that it’s good enough in Cincinnati just to say they have Pro teams. The media are all buds with management of the teams so there’s rarely any media pressure put on the teams to do better. I think the Reds have had 4 winning seasons in the last 19. That’s really, really bad! It feels like just make the money as the team appreciates in value and care less of where we finish. It’s not that fun being a Cincinnati fan! I wish there was an ownership that made one of the teams fun.

[samhain]

Williams reiterated yesterday that they'd exceed the 2019 payroll. This was somewhere in the neighborhood of 126 mil. They have around 60 mil give or take to spend in order to reach that mark. To get a guy like Betts, they'd probably need to push it to around 50. Seems unlikely, but I guess you never know.

I think he's in an arbitration year IIRC. Maybe they get him for a year and let him walk when 2020 ends. That seems like it would burn through a good chunk of prospects.

I'd look to Seattle's glut of CFers or maybe Jackie Bradley Jr if you're seeking a more realistic option.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-03-2019, 03:35 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Lol... Yep, he did look good. There are many ways to improve the team. The Reds will probably use half measures and compete for third place. I’m guessing that they’ll do enough to finally be above .500. The sad thing is that in Cincinnati, that’s good enough for the fans. It seems that it’s good enough in Cincinnati just to say they have Pro teams. The media are all buds with management of the teams so there’s rarely any media pressure put on the teams to do better. I think the Reds have had 4 winning seasons in the last 19. That’s really, really bad! It feels like just make the money as the team appreciates in value and care less of where we finish. It’s not that fun being a Cincinnati fan! I wish there was an ownership that made one of the teams fun.

If you look at the changes of personnel at the farm levels, it looks like the Reds are serious about turning things around.  Kyle Boddy is a big deal.  Huge Deal.  He is founder of Driveline think tank.  I believe Bauer trains with them.  They use biomechanics and data that will improve pitching at the farm level but also has had success at the MLB level.  The Reds will have the top pitching in the league at some point or at least near the top.  This meshes well with Bell's philosophy and data analysis.  Read the link below:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/10/reds-hire-kyle-boddy-driveline-baseball.html

The Reds fired Turner Ward which means they need to find a batting coach guru.  I see the Reds heading in the right direction and have a jump start on the Bengals.  

Give the Bengals 3 more years and they may be in the modern era of the "new" NFL along with LAR, KC, Saints.   At least I hope so.  Also, Mike Brown turned 84 this year.  He is approaching his 90's. His time of reigning the Bengals front office is approaching an end. It is hard to fathom that Mike is the son of Paul Brown.  What a waste of 30 years...