How Much Power Does ZT Have?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 06:34 PM)NKURyan Wrote: He's just the guy standing there with his fingers in his ears going "lalalalalalalala I can't hear you". Don't actually acknowledge or repeat any of the mounds of counterpoints, because that would involve having an actual discussion, instead just repeat the same thing ad nauseum regardless and then wonder why everyone is laughing at you.

Has anyone actually agreed with anything he's said? Shouldn't that tell him something? Instead, just play the victim card instead and chalk that up as a victory. Pathetic.

So anyone want to flip their stance on Taylors failures as OC in Miami and at UC after seeing what happened here so far?

We've also seen in other threads that basically the entire roster has regressed.

Also, we've seen that our defense has given up the most yards in franchise history 5 games in.

Anyone want to flip their stance and declare that Taylor is a bad coach at this point? (Maybe he'll improve. Maybe not.)

[HarleyDog]

(10-08-2019, 08:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So anyone want to flip their stance on Taylors failures as OC in Miami and at UC after seeing what happened here so far?

We've also seen in other threads that basically the entire roster has regressed.

Also, we've seen that our defense has given up the most yards in franchise history 5 games in.

Anyone want to flip their stance and declare that Taylor is a bad coach at this point? (Maybe he'll improve. Maybe not.)

What is wrong with you?

[SunsetBengal]

(10-08-2019, 08:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So anyone want to flip their stance on Taylors failures as OC in Miami and at UC after seeing what happened here so far?

We've also seen in other threads that basically the entire roster has regressed.

Also, we've seen that our defense has given up the most yards in franchise history 5 games in.

Anyone want to flip their stance and declare that Taylor is a bad coach at this point? (Maybe he'll improve. Maybe not.)

Taylor's not a bad coach, he's a freakin' rookie coach.  I, for one, would like to at least have more insight into just how much roster and personnel decision making power he has been "granted", before I go judging the guy for having to deal with the situation he's been handed.  He's young, he's "new school", and he's jumping straight from QB coach to HC in the NFL.  I'm willing to wait and see if the qualities that the Brown family saw in him, are really there, or not.  In fact, I had already decided to withhold judgement for this season, before it even started.  I want to see how he responds, heading into year two.  

[Big Boss]

Has any HC ever gone less than 4 wins their first year and turned out good?

Just asking.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-08-2019, 09:11 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Has any HC ever gone less than 4 wins their first year and turned out good?

Just asking.

Jimmy Johnson...but they were rebuilding.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-08-2019, 08:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: What is wrong with you?

I think questions on Taylor are valid. We see his track record from past jobs. Now we see the results here and players getting worse.

The narrative this offseason was we had a good roster, just poorly coached by Marvin. Now we have evidence that Taylor made them worse.

[Bengalitis]

(09-02-2019, 11:00 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I don't think Zach would have taken the job if he couldn't get to pick who was active on game day at the very least. Also I don't think this is Mike's team as much as Dukes team and I think that transition has been going on for a while.  I also think that's why Marvin left and lost Interest.

I disagree, I think people want to believe they are smart & savvy and would like the challenge to take on an organization like the Bengals, not to mention the "promotion" to become the ultimate HC for an NFL team and a much higher income.  With Zac's age, i would think the opposite, i would think Zach would have taken the HC position even with some or many restrictions for the aforementioned reasons.

[BengalsRocker]

(10-08-2019, 09:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think questions on Taylor are valid. We see his track record from past jobs. Now we see the results here and players getting worse.

The narrative this offseason was we had a good roster, just poorly coached by Marvin. Now we have evidence that Taylor made them worse.

I mean...  the season prediction thread had quite a few posters pondering "how can ZT possibly have less wins with this roster than with Marvin" echoing in there.

Well Zac had the same crap roster and they did nothing in Free Agency for him.

Just because he's new, doesn't mean he's a better fit.

He still has to work with non-NFL style football-saavy idiots in the front office which doesn't help either.

[HarleyDog]

(10-08-2019, 09:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think questions on Taylor are valid. We see his track record from past jobs. Now we see the results here and players getting worse.

The narrative this offseason was we had a good roster, just poorly coached by Marvin. Now we have evidence that Taylor made them worse.

My question was not about your opinion of the team. It was about your desire to have others here say you were right? Regardless how much you push your negativity, your eagerness to have others concede is kind of concerning? This book has not been written yet. We're in the 5th chapter of 16. Geez. 

[XenoMorph]

(09-02-2019, 11:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hard to say...this off-season we've credited all sorts of people for making various decisions and all we can do is guess.  Did Mike Brown relent?  Did Katie take over?  What about Troy?  Is Mike Brown still doing stuff?  Is ZT a GM?

The way I see it, ZT is the golden child at the moment so if stuff goes well it's going to be because he is in control and it's a NEW DEY and if things don't go well it's going to be clear that Mike Brown is getting in the way of progress again.

didn't they say it was Katie Troy and Duke making the calls this offseason?

[THE PISTONS]

(10-09-2019, 10:42 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: didn't they say it was Katie Troy and Duke making the calls this offseason?

I read it was a 5 headed monster of those 3, MB, and ZT.

I think that Katie, Troy, and Duke were the main hiring influences behind selecting Taylor.

[*Nately120*]

(10-09-2019, 10:42 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: didn't they say it was Katie Troy and Duke making the calls this offseason?

I also recall taking Sample in the 2nd being called a great move and evidence ZT had a lot of influence in the draft.  

[THE PISTONS]

(10-09-2019, 11:19 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I also recall taking Sample in the 2nd being called a great move and evidence ZT had a lot of influence in the draft.  

And signing Bernard to his extension for Top 15 money...evidence that Taylor was calling the shots and going to use Bernard A LOT.

(Which is absurd, because you don't pay a guy based on usage. You pay them based on production.)

[*Nately120*]

(10-08-2019, 10:13 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: My question was not about your opinion of the team. It was about your desire to have others here say you were right? Regardless how much you push your negativity, your eagerness to have others concede is kind of concerning? This book has not been written yet. We're in the 5th chapter of 16. Geez. 

In all fairness the most positive thing to say about ZT involves excusing his record because most of the team and the front office are total garbage...which is also a negative thing to say.

There aren't many positive conclusuons to draw at 0-5. 

[UKWhoDey]

Ill wait a few drafts and seasons before jumping ship. We were atrocious last year. We were never going to be good this year. Relax.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-09-2019, 12:21 PM)UKWhoDey Wrote: Ill wait a few drafts and seasons before jumping ship.  We were atrocious last year.  We were never going to be good this year.  Relax.

I love how the narrative NOW is we were NEVER going to be good this year. The narrative on the board this offseason was that  new coaches would 'coach guys up'.

Now that that hasn't happened...people are all like the roster is terrible.

THIS is what a terrible coached roster looks like. Everyone gets worse.

[*Nately120*]

(10-09-2019, 12:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I love how the narrative NOW is we were NEVER going to be good this year. The narrative on the board this offseason was that  new coaches would 'coach guys up'.

Generally, I think people go overboard with the whole "THE 90s ARE COMING!" cries, but the fact that we are declaring seasons to be an obvious hopeless waste of time a month in really does smack of the 90s.

We've been declaring seasons a waste of time for years now.

2016 - waste of time...Zampese
2017 - waste of time Zampese and Marvin and Lazor
2018 - waste of time, Marvin and Lazor and Austin and injuries
2019 - waste of time, injuries and no talent and (probably) Turner (at least)
2020 - waste of time, ?????

[THE PISTONS]

(10-09-2019, 12:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Generally, I think people go overboard with the whole "THE 90s ARE COMING!" cries, but the fact that we are declaring seasons to be an obvious hopeless waste of time a month in really does smack of the 90s.

We've been declaring seasons a waste of time for years now.

2016 - waste of time...Zampese
2017 - waste of time Zampese and Marvin and Lazor
2018 - waste of time, Marvin and Lazor and Austin and injuries
2019 - waste of time, injuries and no talent and (probably) Turner (at least)
2020 - waste of time, ?????

Right...and literally EVERY TEAM in the NFL has won a playoff game since we last have with all but like 3 or 4 winning 5+...so obviously those teams overcome injuries, or coaching issues, etc.

It doesn't take some rare alignment of circumstances to win.

Our division is as bad as I can remember it ever being this year...and we're 0-5. A team without Roethlisberger thumped us.

The fact is, people want to blame injuries...but had we had better coaching...we probably have 2 or 3 wins right now. Better playcalling would go a long way.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-09-2019, 12:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Right...and literally EVERY TEAM in the NFL has won a playoff game since we last have with all but like 3 or 4 winning 5+...so obviously those teams overcome injuries, or coaching issues, etc.

It doesn't take some rare alignment of circumstances to win.

Our division is as bad as I can remember it ever being this year...and we're 0-5. A team without Roethlisberger thumped us.

The fact is, people want to blame injuries...but had we had better coaching...we probably have 2 or 3 wins right now. Better playcalling would go a long way.

The Browns have not had a winning season in over 10 years.  Seems like the Browns changed coaches every other year or something.  I think they will fire Kitchens sometime this year unless they go on win streak.  Browns have tremendous talent or so they say but they are not producing.  

An argument can be made that the Browns coaching staff is incompetent given the talent.  But then again, this team turns over coaching staff more often than other teams.   Expectations soared when the Browns believe Mayfield was the missing piece at QB.  

Using the Browns as a gauge, should the Front Office of the Browns fire the coaching staff again this year?  How has that helped the Browns over the years?  

Love him, hate him, but Mike Brown likes stability.  Bengals kept Lewis too long but the stability took them to 6 playoffs while the Browns have yet had a winning season.  

I think Taylor had say in hiring of coaching staff.  He wanted that DC from Florida who apparently really knows his stuff.  I think he wanted Bill Callahan for O-Line but was denied.  He has made some bad decisions and I do not think he calls competent plays as OC.  But I will say this, the O-line had several players retire unexpectedly and it hurt the entire offense.  This "trash" of a team with "incompetent" coaches could be 3-2 if a play here and there went their way.  I see glimpses of a potent offense mixed with disaster plays and execution.  when they do get good chunks, someone like Hart has a penalty.  

The defense is a disaster with exception of Seattle game.  I think some coaches should be replaced.  But as pointed out earlier regarding the Browns, firing the entire coaching staff is not the answer.  

Turner needs to be replaced by Bill Callahan by next year and Sweet Lou can take a walk.  Start there.  Also Fire Tobin! 

[BengalChris]

(10-08-2019, 09:11 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Has any HC ever gone less than 4 wins their first year and turned out good?

Just asking.

A few HCs have started slow and turned out good and usually those are depleted teams with little talent. That is not the case with the Bengals. A coach taking over a team, then going straight into the dumpster generally does not turn out well. The team has gotten worse in all phases with essentially the same personnel.

He may already have bought into Mike Brown's philosophy of football management, in which case, he's doomed to fail.

But he should be given the entire season to see what he brings. Although, at this point, with how badly the team has played, we can't realistically expect much.