A Clear Path Forward - 2019-2020

[MEBengalsFan]

The reality is that you are building a team around a draft hoping everything improves. How many OL come out of the draft as the next big hype only to be that a hype but nothing more. The Bengals have seen plenty of hype players fail and going this route it could be just that. Browns have done this more than once and yet look where they are now still trying to find a team to get into the playoffs.

IMO, the team does build through the drafts but don't throw away the pieces you have now if they want to stick around. If you have a player like CD or CP that wants out you do trade those cancer players and get what you can for a draft pick. As for the players that want to be here like Green, you keep them and build around them the best you can with drafting smart and filling the gaps in with FA.

The Bengals haven't been great with either lately as both FA and drafted players either get injured or simply don't live up to the hype that they had from their prior place.

The Bengals have many of the pieces in place to compete now and next year. I think that the better path is just simply draft best available player and don't try to reach for players (like Sample).

I honestly had high hopes for this team until Jonah injury than AJ injury. After Glenn I basically said this team isn't going to win many games with this OL and without any true LT. Yet the team continues to perform decent enough to be in games. The Bengals could be 3-2 right now and not 0-5. That is something to think about and if the team was 3-2 we wouldn't even be talking about tearing apart the team for the future now would we. No instead, we would be talking about who we could pluck from another team to help improve our team to make the playoffs and maybe even win a playoff game.

It is funny how close this team is to 3-2 and yet so many want to simply tear the team apart for the future and place the future of so many important pieces into the hands of rookies that may not even pan out.

The coaches and players know what is going on and happening in the locker room.

I'll leave the direction of the team up to those with in the know information about the players they want to keep and players they want to bring in that matches the scheme the coaches are using, because I'm far from being on the inside of what is happening.

We all can state whatever we want as Armchair coaches, managers, etc... but the reality is we don't have the inside information that determines how the team is managed.

Though Troy Blackburn comment kinda tells me that he doesn't know any better either.

The only thing I think the Bengals need is a GM that know how to run a NFL team.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-11-2019, 11:46 AM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: The reality is that you are building a team around a draft hoping everything improves. How many OL come out of the draft as the next big hype only to be that a hype but nothing more. The Bengals have seen plenty of hype players fail and going this route it could be just that. Browns have done this more than once and yet look where they are now still trying to find a team to get into the playoffs.

IMO, the team does build through the drafts but don't throw away the pieces you have now if they want to stick around. If you have a player like CD or CP that wants out you do trade those cancer players and get what you can for a draft pick. As for the players that want to be here like Green, you keep them and build around them the best you can with drafting smart and filling the gaps in with FA.

The Bengals haven't been great with either lately as both FA and drafted players either get injured or simply don't live up to the hype that they had from their prior place.

The Bengals have many of the pieces in place to compete now and next year. I think that the better path is just simply draft best available player and don't try to reach for players (like Sample).

I honestly had high hopes for this team until Jonah injury than AJ injury. After Glenn I basically said this team isn't going to win many games with this OL and without any true LT. Yet the team continues to perform decent enough to be in games. The Bengals could be 3-2 right now and not 0-5. That is something to think about and if the team was 3-2 we wouldn't even be talking about tearing apart the team for the future now would we. No instead, we would be talking about who we could pluck from another team to help improve our team to make the playoffs and maybe even win a playoff game.

It is funny how close this team is to 3-2 and yet so many want to simply tear the team apart for the future and place the future of so many important pieces into the hands of rookies that may not even pan out.

The coaches and players know what is going on and happening in the locker room.

I'll leave the direction of the team up to those with in the know information about the players they want to keep and players they want to bring in that matches the scheme the coaches are using, because I'm far from being on the inside of what is happening.

We all can state whatever we want as Armchair coaches, managers, etc... but the reality is we don't have the inside information that determines how the team is managed.

Though Troy Blackburn comment kinda tells me that he doesn't know any better either.

The only thing I think the Bengals need is a GM that know how to run a NFL team.

Yes.

The problem with the Bengals' approach to the offseason is they are only going to get good players if/when they develop them from the draft. They only get mediocre-at-best outside FAs. So if you don't have a very good, proven coaching staff that continually drafts good players and develops them well, the best you are going to get is a mediocre team. If you do develop any of the draft picks, it becomes vastly important how fast they develop, as they might not become good right away. If they don't become good right away, it could result in some lost seasons and end up resulting in actual good players hitting FA or retiring by the time the younger players become good.

Use Trey Hopkins and John Ross as examples. Hopkins has played well this year, but he's been on the team since 2014. Imagine if he had been slotted at C and established himself in 2014 or 2015? This team wouldn't have likely drafted Billy Price in that case. For Ross, imagine if Ross had played well his first two years such that this team could actually compensate for Green and Eifert being out. Given his first two years and now going on IR in his third year after a promising first four games, you can't confidently say the Bengals would be fine with Boyd and Ross as the starting WRs. So now, the Bengals have to worry about either re-signing Green, bringing in a different good WR in FA (unlikely), or spend a high draft pick on a WR.

[bengals67]

OP - love your thinking. Unfortunately...

The Brown family has their way and nothing is going to change.

 No new GM, no increase in scouts, no pursuit of quality FAs, no trades of players with expiring contracts.

Would not surprise me if AJ really wants to stay but Brown family hacks him off with low ball contract like Whit.

But we will get a comp pick! They are the Holy Grail!

The real path which started after the Pittsburgh playoff meltdown is Lost Decade II

[*psychdoctor*]

When has a Bengal team or Front Office, in over 30 years, done anything like this?

I appreciate your effort though.

[THE PISTONS]

When we finish 9-2...make the playoffs...then win the next 4 games to win the Super Bowl...we'll all look back on these threads and laugh.

Then, in the offseason...4 teams will offer MB, Katie, Troy, and Tobin lucrative deals to become their GM's...and we'll miss them.

[grampahol]

(10-11-2019, 02:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: When we finish 9-2...make the playoffs...then win the next 4 games to win the Super Bowl...we'll all look back on these threads and laugh.

Then, in the offseason...4 teams will offer MB, Katie, Troy, and Tobin lucrative deals to become their GM's...and we'll miss them.

Oh yeah...completely on board with this.. My faith in the Bengals ownership and management has never wavered even for one tiny itsy bitsy moment. 

Well there was that one time....  

[grampahol]

Has anyone ever even remotely suspected that maybe, just maybe it's a rigged system? 

Nahhh.. what could I be possibly be thinking?  It's impossible to corrupt a billionaire team owner. They really don't care about money when they already have enough.. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2019, 04:26 PM)grampahol Wrote: Has anyone ever even remotely suspected that maybe, just maybe it's a rigged system? 

Nahhh.. what could I be possibly be thinking?  It's impossible to corrupt a billionaire team owner. They really don't care about money when they already have enough.. 

I have. Like what if the Bengals management was amazing, but there was a huge conspiracy to make them look inept for 30 years?

What if the Patriots were really terrible, but the system made them look great.

[J24]

(10-11-2019, 10:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Love the creativity and extensive thought put in to this process.  I am with you 100% with a couple exceptions:  

I don't think Geno brings a first round pick, or anything close to that...maybe a late 2nd rounder if we are lucky.  Not sure I make that move.  But for a DE like Dunlap I would take a 2nd rounder as he will be easier to replace.  I already like what we have in Hubbard and he could become the LDE of the future with Lawson rotating at RDE with the likes of Andrew Brown.

Lastly, I don't like the idea of wasting Jonah Williams as a LG.  He should be our LT of the future, and the Bengals could draft more defensive help while getting a RT in Rd 2 or 3.  I might consider drafting a G prospect in Rd 2 as well if there is one that grades out higher than a RT.  I think Michael Jordan can be a very good LG, but needs another year of strength training and development.  Not having a solid LT next to him has hurt him as well.  

If the Bengals really want to upgrade the team from the inside out, they would consider trading Ross rather than re-signing him after his rookie deal.  I think he has flashed enough that a team like NE might offer their late first rounder.  Or KC.  I don't see anyone offering that for Green.  I know Ross has had his health issues as well, but he is at a different point in his career compared to AJ.  

I am just hoping some parts of this overhaul happen and the team becomes interesting again.  

Shouldn't the Bengals be worrying about who the best 5 on the offensive line are instead of worrying about where Williams plays?

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-11-2019, 04:55 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Shouldn't the Bengals be worrying about who the best 5 on the offensive line are instead of worrying about where Williams plays?

Let me put it this way:  You don't draft a LT prospect that has always played LT at #10 overall to immediately change his position.  Now, if he was better at Guard, and struggled at LT, that is something else.  But I wouldn't replace the guy before he has even taken a snap with a guy that has also not taken a snap.  

[SunsetBengal]

(10-11-2019, 07:01 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Let me put it this way:  You don't draft a LT prospect that has always played LT at #10 overall to immediately change his position.  Now, if he was better at Guard, and struggled at LT, that is something else.  But I wouldn't replace the guy before he has even taken a snap with a guy that has also not taken a snap.  

That is a good point, but let me also remind you that the NFL has more than it's fair share of guys that were excellent Tackles in college, that are playing Guard in the NFL.  I have 0 problems with the Bengals taking another top notch Tackle, and stashing either him or Williams at Guard, until their time comes to move outside.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-11-2019, 08:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a good point, but let me also remind you that the NFL has more than it's fair share of guys that were excellent Tackles in college, that are playing Guard in the NFL.  I have 0 problems with the Bengals taking another top notch Tackle, and stashing either him or Williams at Guard, until their time comes to move outside.

If the situation dictates, sure, but I wouldn't proactively move WIlliams before he has even played a down at LT. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-12-2019, 12:12 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: If the situation dictates, sure, but I wouldn't proactively move WIlliams before he has even played a down at LT. 

Well, Glenn and Hart are both pretty mediocre...so yes I'd say play Williams where he'll be best.

Ideally, we draft a quality RT. Move Hart to backup. Waive Glenn.

Maybe sign Quenton Spain to play Guard. Retain Hopkins.

Drafted RT/Miller/Hopkins/Spain/Williams <--- Decent line on paper.

Of course, the tackles are 2 guys who have never played a game in the NFL...so who knows.

Hopkins is playing good in a contract year. We've seen that before.

Miller is mediocre.

And Spain would be a free agent who is quality...so that's doubtful to happen. But he is a Bill...who we like to sign.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-12-2019, 12:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, Glenn and Hart are both pretty mediocre...so yes I'd say play Williams where he'll be best.

Ideally, we draft a quality RT. Move Hart to backup. Waive Glenn.

Maybe sign Quenton Spain to play Guard. Retain Hopkins.

Drafted RT/Miller/Hopkins/Spain/Williams <--- Decent line on paper.

Of course, the tackles are 2 guys who have never played a game in the NFL...so who knows.

Hopkins is playing good in a contract year. We've seen that before.

Miller is mediocre.

And Spain would be a free agent who is quality...so that's doubtful to happen. But he is a Bill...who we like to sign.

I would be willing to go Guard early in the draft (hopefully we trade out and get a haul) with a mid-to-late first rounder if there was a Quentin Nelson-rated player out there.  He seemed to make that line almost instantly.   Won't get hung up on the whole Guard vs. RT vs. LT debate.  I would get the best player available and stay away from drafting a QB until they build up both lines because both lines are awful.  Ditto LB.  I don't do anything at a so-called "skill position" until those units are really good.  

[SErebel11]

Economically speaking, part of the perk of going with a QB on a rookie contract is you can spend everywhere else. If I am taking a QB, I would prefer one in the first round to get the 5th year option.

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2019, 01:08 PM)SErebel11 Wrote: Economically speaking, part of the perk of going with a QB on a rookie contract is you can spend everywhere else. If I am taking a QB, I would prefer one in the first round to get the 5th year option.

Fifth year option on a QB taken in the top 10 picks of the draft does not help that much because you would have to pay him about $30 million for that 5th year.

[grampahol]

I wonder how safe it would be to assume every college player eligible for the 2020 draft is just begging to be drafted by the Bengals.. There might even be a few community college players in play this time around. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-18-2019, 01:08 PM)SErebel11 Wrote: Economically speaking, part of the perk of going with a QB on a rookie contract is you can spend everywhere else. If I am taking a QB, I would prefer one in the first round to get the 5th year option.

It'll be interesting to see how the next collective bargaining agreement changes things.

Next year's draft could be the last that applies to.

[Joelist]

If there is such a can't miss super QB at the top of the draft where we are picking I am not opposed to taking them - as long as we go in knowing we will have to redshirt the player for the first year while we try to create a usable OL. If we put a new QB out there behind this garbage line all we will do is get them shell shocked.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-11-2019, 04:26 PM)grampahol Wrote: Has anyone ever even remotely suspected that maybe, just maybe it's a rigged system? 

Yeah, people that wear aluminum foil hats.