The Concept of Giving a Coach a Few Years to Build a Team

[lone bengal]

I’m wiling to give Taylor another season to implement his system. Can’t blame the defensive struggles on Taylor. Under Marvin and Austin last season we were already a historically bad defense giving up multiple 500 yard games. How did the Bengals address the defense in the offseason? They signed Kerry Wynn, B.W. Webb and waited till the 3rd and 4th round to draft defense. Bengals have talent deficiencies but I’ll admit the offense should be way better then it is. The play calling from Taylor lacks creativity which concerns me long term. Taylor was only a qb coach with the rams and never a coordinator. We had a similar offensive line last year and Mixion lead the AFC in rushing now we can barley rush for 20 yards.

[grampahol]

Just ask yourselves the ever present question.. WWRD? (what would Roger do)
OH! Pay some teams to suck so other teams in large markets can win! It's a win/win for the league and nobody the wiser.. Small market teams still get paid and big market teams can pretend to be soooooo smart they always win or at least play in" Championship games".. 

Nahhh.. that makes too much sense..  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-19-2019, 04:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't say we were not good last year because of luck and then say we are better this year except for bad luck.

Fact is that after 5 games last year our offense ranked 17th in yards and 9th in yards per play and our defense ranked 25th in yards and 17th in yards per play allowed.  We were 7th in the league in point differential at +23.

This year our offense ranks 24tt in yards and 28th in yards per play while our defense ranks 31st in both total yards and yards per play.  We are 30th in point differential at (-62).

But those first 5 games last year our offense was generally pretty healthy.  Our O-line starters were not the greatest, but at least they were starters.  While Turner seems to be the most hated coach around here I think he is one guy who deserves a chance to see what he can do with starting caliber O-linemen.  

But our defense has just gone to total shit.  It started last year, but it has gotten worse this year.  I know we are weak in some spots, but poor LB play should not make our DBs look lost or our pass rush from our D-line disappear.

I don't know if it is horrid coaching or players not caring, but this team is bottoming out.

What I'm saying is, we got some lucky bounces go our way last season, and this season we haven't. We were bad then, and we're bad now. We've lost 16 of the last 18. It's just bad.

I think it's a little of both this season regarding coaching and players, to be honest Fred, and you're right, they've bottomed out.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-19-2019, 08:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I see Burrows mocked in the 20's. Where would you select him at? He's projected to be like the 4th QB. I don't know that he has the arm strength to be an elite QB. Seems more like a Dalton or Tannehill caliber guy.

See my reply about him in another thread....people weren't all that high on Daniel Jones either....

[THE PISTONS]

(10-21-2019, 11:26 AM)Wyche Wrote: See my reply about him in another thread....people weren't all that high on Daniel Jones either....

Any QB we draft, we need to watch their feet when the blitz comes. They have to have the ability to sense it and move up a few feet.

I feel like aside from arm strength and accuracy...that that's the next biggest thing.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-21-2019, 12:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Any QB we draft, we need to watch their feet when the blitz comes. They have to have the ability to sense it and move up a few feet.

I feel like aside from arm strength and accuracy...that that's the next biggest thing.

This is why my least favorite atm is Herbert.  Happy feet and high throws under pressure.  Rocket of an arm though.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-21-2019, 01:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This is why my least favorite atm is Herbert.  Happy feet and high throws under pressure.  Rocket of an arm though.  

I've only a couple of his games, to be honest, not enough for me to say one way or the other.

I like what I see out of Burrow, that's for sure. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-21-2019, 01:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This is why my least favorite atm is Herbert.  Happy feet and high throws under pressure.  Rocket of an arm though.  

I see him compared to Wentz.

[*ochocincos*]

My thought is that it didn't make sense to try to fix a square peg into a round hole.
So many of the players were selected to play into a certain scheme.
It's pretty clear that they don't have the proper players to fit into the schemes they are trying to run.
They also are tremendously failing to adjust the scheme to fit the players.

On offense, the Rams system doesn't work without a great OL and 3 very good receivers.
On defense, the scheme doesn't work with slow LBs and a non-elite secondary.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-21-2019, 01:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: My thought is that it didn't make sense to try to fix a square peg into a round hole.
So many of the players were selected to play into a certain scheme.
It's pretty clear that they don't have the proper players to fit into the schemes they are trying to run.
They also are tremendously failing to adjust the scheme to fit the players.

On offense, the Rams system doesn't work without a great OL and 3 very good receivers.
On defense, the scheme doesn't work with slow LBs and a non-elite secondary.

Honestly, does ANY TEAM put 2 slow LB's in their Nickle package?

These coaches should have knew way better.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-18-2019, 10:59 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't think Taylor is going anywhere for at least 3 years. However, it is clear Turner must go at the end of the season if not sooner. I don't know what to think of Sweet Lou. Bengals bend but do not break still is ugly football. Maybe he should go at the end of season. I would also take a long look at each position coach and conduct evaluations based on players's performance and development.

I think if Taylor misses on the next couple draft, he will seal his own fate. I do not know if any trades are going to be made but I think some vets are done with Cincinnati. Let Taylor get new blood, give him a year or two to implement schemes that match his personnel. Bring in a GM that will bring in first Day Free Agents. If the team had talent and still looked this way then it would indicate coaching.

The narrative that players have regressed is bona fide but one must ask why. Is it the coaching or is it some other variables like losing a dozen games in a row. It could be schemes which would indicate coaching by coordinators. But this O-Line has been porous for a while, the talent along the OL and backers just isn't there. Dalton is a year older and injuries appear convenient for some players. Makes me wonder.

With Anarumo, if you fire him what are you then going to do?

Who is going to want to come to Cincinnati to coach a D that has been bottom 5 two years in a row, has had just two draft picks in 5 years from rounds 1-2 (and the only 1st rounder among them will be entering his contract year and probably wants out) when it's an open secret that you are going QB in round 1, you don't sign free agents and you've still got a bunch of holes on the O-line that need to be filled to protect your rookie QB?

It's career suicide.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-21-2019, 03:44 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: With Anarumo, if you fire him what are you then going to do?

Who is going to want to come to Cincinnati to coach a D that has been bottom 5 two years in a row, has had just two draft picks in 5 years from rounds 1-2 (and the only 1st rounder among them will be entering his contract year and probably wants out) when it's an open secret that you are going QB in round 1, you don't sign free agents and you've still got a bunch of holes on the O-line that need to be filled to protect your rookie QB?

It's career suicide.

After watch another defense performance where the Bengal offense left about 11min TOP disparity I think Lou did okay with what he has.  He may be a keeper.  I go back-and-forth on him.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-21-2019, 03:54 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: After watch another defense performance where the Bengal offense left about 11 TOP disparity I think Lou did okay with what he has.  He may be a keeper.  I go back-and-forth on him.

Lou Anarumo is the only new coach or coordinator the Bengals hired who improved their unit. The defense still leaks lots of yardage but they aren’t giving up gobs of points. He’s not likely the long term solution but he is making the proverbial silk purse of of a sow’s ear.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-21-2019, 03:58 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Lou Anarumo is the only new coach or coordinator the Bengals hired who improved their unit.  The defense still leaks lots of yardage but they aren’t giving up gobs of points.  He’s not likely the long term solution but he is making the proverbial silk purse of of a sow’s ear.

I agree.  He is doing the best with what he has in terms of talent and personnel.  Plus, this offense is SO BAD that the defense is playing almost twice as long as the offense.  sad.  

[Cicero]

(10-21-2019, 04:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I agree.  He is doing the best with what he has in terms of talent and personnel.  Plus, this offense is SO BAD that the defense is playing almost twice as long as the offense.  sad.  

Yeah with the protection of even a mediocre offense I think they would look a lot better. As it is they get zero protection with only three plays before they have to trot back out there.

[fredtoast]

(10-21-2019, 04:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I agree.  He is doing the best with what he has in terms of talent and personnel.  Plus, this offense is SO BAD that the defense is playing almost twice as long as the offense.  sad.  

(10-21-2019, 05:04 PM)Cicero Wrote: Yeah with the protection of even a mediocre offense I think they would look a lot better. As it is they get zero protection with only three plays before they have to trot back out there.

Our defense is not wearing down from playing too much.  The suck from the opening whistle

On the Ravens first possession they rushed 5 times for 71 yards and a TD.  In fact the first three times they had the ball they gained 75, 80, and 57 yards.  We allowed 324 yards in the first half alone including

The Cardinal game was also close in the first half (13-6), but the defense allowed FOUR drives of at least 9 plays and 60 yards including 148 rushing yards on 23 carries in the first half alone.

[kevin]

Wyche, Shula, Coslett, LeBeau, Lewis, Taylor.....but ALWAYS Mike Brown. No play-off wins and more 0-4 starts than any NFL owner. ...Maybe no coach can win here as long as Mike Brown is here. One thing is for sure, whenever Bengals try to hire any kind of coaches, most coaches quickly say they will not consider working for Mike Brown and Bengals. So people can make all the wish lists of coaches as in years past and then throw it all away because as long as Mike Brown is here, the good coaches are not coming. I don't blame them, working for Mike is a step down, not a good career move.

[fredtoast]

(10-21-2019, 06:21 PM)kevin Wrote:   So people can make all the wish lists of coaches as in years past and then throw it all away because as long as Mike Brown is here, the good coaches are not coming.  I don't blame them, working for Mike is a step down, not a good career move.

Five guys who coached here under Marvin became head coaches.

Kevin Coyle went from a position coach here to a Coordinator position.

There are probably more I am forgetting.