Positions of need

[*psychdoctor*]

As of week 8, I see the needs as following:

OT
QB
Guard
DE
Backer
Guard
Backer
DB
WR
DB

This is assuming the J. Williams can play LT. If not, they can kick him inside as guard.

I could see the Bengals passing on Burrow, Herbert. Because the "Modern" QB needs to run. With that said, I could see them now drafting Hurts in round 2-3. I think Burrow is the best QB as of now. Tua is good but with injury flags, I worry.

I see Dolphins, Titans, Saints, Broncos, and Tampa all going QB.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-22-2019, 02:38 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: As of week 8, I see the needs as following:

OT
QB
Guard
DE
Backer
Guard
Backer
DB
WR
DB

This is assuming the J. Williams can play LT.  If not, they can kick him inside as guard.  

I could see the Bengals passing on Burrow, Herbert.  Because the "Modern" QB needs to run.  With that said, I could see them now drafting Hurts in round 2-3.  I think Burrow is the best QB as of now.  Tua is good but with injury flags, I worry.  

I see Dolphins, Titans, Saints, Broncos, and Tampa all going QB.

Hurts is interesting. Up until he got to Oklahoma, he wasn't very good in the pocket nor going through his progressions. Riley is showing to be a QB whisperer and you have to wonder if the Bengals FO believes this coaching staff could do the same given they have Taylor, Van Pelt, and Callahan who have all been successful QB coaches in the past.

Hurts is definitely a gamble though. But I could see the team wanting to solidify the OL and take a chance on Hurts in Rd 3-4. Then based on his growth in 2020, the team could then decide whether they want a new QB in the 2021 draft.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-23-2019, 12:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hurts is interesting. Up until he got to Oklahoma, he wasn't very good in the pocket nor going through his progressions. Riley is showing to be a QB whisperer and you have to wonder if the Bengals FO believes this coaching staff could do the same given they have Taylor, Van Pelt, and Callahan who have all been successful QB coaches in the past.

Hurts is definitely a gamble though. But I could see the team wanting to solidify the OL and take a chance on Hurts in Rd 3-4. Then based on his growth in 2020, the team could then decide whether they want a new QB in the 2021 draft.

Hurts is shooting up the draft boards and will likely be considered the 4th best QB.  I think He goes in round 2-3.  He may even go in round 1.  With that said, even if the Bengals take Eason, he is a slinger and probably the best pure passer next to Herbert.  

If the Bengals could take Thomas-rd 1, Kindler-rd2, and Hurts-rd2b or 3.  That would be great!  Another OT to keep an eye on is Jackson.  

They would have this for 2020:
Thomas-Kindler-Hopkins-Price/Jordan/Miller-J. Williams as OL.  
Hurts can also run and gun.  He fits the mold of the new NFL QB.  

With that said, I still like Burrow as the best QB. I could see a team like Titans or Patriots getting Burrow and he will play at several pro-bowls i would bet.

[J24]

(10-23-2019, 12:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hurts is interesting. Up until he got to Oklahoma, he wasn't very good in the pocket nor going through his progressions. Riley is showing to be a QB whisperer and you have to wonder if the Bengals FO believes this coaching staff could do the same given they have Taylor, Van Pelt, and Callahan who have all been successful QB coaches in the past.

Hurts is definitely a gamble though. But I could see the team wanting to solidify the OL and take a chance on Hurts in Rd 3-4. Then based on his growth in 2020, the team could then decide whether they want a new QB in the 2021 draft.

Kinda of similar to Russel Wilson in 2011. Struggled at NC State than went to Wisconsin and became a star.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-23-2019, 01:12 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Hurts is shooting up the draft boards and will likely be considered the 4th best QB.  I think He goes in round 2-3.  He may even go in round 1.  With that said, even if the Bengals take Eason, he is a slinger and probably the best pure passer next to Herbert.  

If the Bengals could take Thomas-rd 1, Kindler-rd2, and Hurts-rd2b or 3.  That would be great!  Another OT to keep an eye on is Jackson.  

They would have this for 2020:
Thomas-Kindler-Hopkins-Price/Jordan/Miller-J. Williams as OL.  
Hurts can also run and gun.  He fits the mold of the new NFL QB.  

With that said, I still like Burrow as the best QB.  I could see a team like Titans or Patriots getting Burrow and he will play at several pro-bowls i would bet.

They'd have to be very active in FA for LB but that would give hope on the offense.

[Au165]

(10-23-2019, 01:48 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Kinda of similar to Russel Wilson in 2011. Struggled at NC State than went to Wisconsin and became a star.

Kind of the opposite. Wilson left a more traditional college offense for a more pro offense and he flourished. Hurts has done the opposite and I continue to point out the scheme in Oklahoma is making all these guys look better than they are. 

[*Synric*]

(10-23-2019, 02:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: Kind of the opposite. Wilson left a more traditional college offense for a more pro offense and he flourished. Hurts has done the opposite and I continue to point out the scheme in Oklahoma is making all these guys look better than they are. 

Oklahoma is the power house of the Big 12 they get the best recruits and play against alot of teams that dont.

[Au165]

(10-23-2019, 03:10 PM)Synric Wrote: Oklahoma is the power house of the Big 12 they get the best recruits and play against alot of teams that dont.

It's not just players, it's scheme too. Mayfield is starting to show some cracks in his armor when he has to throw into tight coverage that were covered up by guys running free in college. 

[J24]

(10-23-2019, 02:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: Kind of the opposite. Wilson left a more traditional college offense for a more pro offense and he flourished. Hurts has done the opposite and I continue to point out the scheme in Oklahoma is making all these guys look better than they are. 

Wilson struggled at NC State and then flourished at Wisconsin. Jalen Hurts is doing the same in Oklahoma. Anyways does scheme really matter that much? A lot of teams are running College stuff now in the pros?

[Au165]

(10-23-2019, 04:32 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Wilson struggled at NC State and then flourished at Wisconsin. Jalen Hurts is doing the same in Oklahoma. Anyways does scheme really matter that much? A lot of teams are running College stuff now in the pros?

Right, which is what I explained. Yes...it really matters that much. Not everything from college translates because of speed and talent differences in the NFL vs College. A lot of the air raid concepts rely pace and space but that gets minimized in the NFL. The NFL hash marks are 18 and a half feet wide, in college they are 40 feet wide. That allows for "wide side" plays to take advantage of individual mismatches at a much higher rate than in the NFL. Do some concepts work? Sure. As a whole though the scheme doesn't translate and you have to be careful to buy into QB's out of those systems. 

[J24]

(10-23-2019, 04:41 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right, which is what I explained. Yes...it really matters that much. Not everything from college translates because of speed and talent differences in the NFL vs College. A lot of the air raid concepts rely pace and space but that gets minimized in the NFL. The NFL hash marks are 18 and a half feet wide, in college they are 40 feet wide. That allows for "wide side" plays to take advantage of individual mismatches at a much higher rate than in the NFL. Do some concepts work? Sure. As a whole though the scheme doesn't translate and you have to be careful to buy into QB's out of those systems. 

I wouldn't pick him with the first pick but he's shown enough for a second RD to late first RD pick. 

[Au165]

(10-23-2019, 04:54 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I wouldn't pick him with the first pick but he's shown enough for a second RD to late first RD pick. 

I wouldn't touch him before the 3rd round. He is essentially Mason Rudolph or Will Grier with better mobility. He will go higher than that, but I'm just telling you for every Patrick Mahomes there is a Case Keenum when it comes to Air Raid QB's. Jared Goff was supposed to be the middle finger to people who said Air Raid QB's can't work in the NFL but we now know he really isn't equipped to diagnose defenses and relies heavily on his coach doing it for him in his headset.

[Whatever]

(10-23-2019, 05:01 PM)Au165 Wrote: I wouldn't touch him before the 3rd round. He is essentially Mason Rudolph or Will Grier with better mobility. He will go higher than that, but I'm just telling you for every Patrick Mahomes there is a Case Keenum when it comes to Air Raid QB's. Jared Goff was supposed to be the middle finger to people who said Air Raid QB's can't work in the NFL but we now know he really isn't equipped to diagnose defenses and relies heavily on his coach doing it for him in his headset.

I really don't get the hype with Hurts.  We've seen him in the same system and with a similar supporting cast as Baker and Kyler.  Those two are middling NFL QB's and Hurts isn't as good a prospect.  I'm not sure why anyone would see him as a potential franchise QB, except for wishful thinking that we can get a stud at another position in the 1st and Hurts will be there in 2.

[J24]

(10-23-2019, 11:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: I really don't get the hype with Hurts.  We've seen him in the same system and with a similar supporting cast as Baker and Kyler.  Those two are middling NFL QB's and Hurts isn't as good a prospect.  I'm not sure why anyone would see him as a potential franchise QB, except for wishful thinking that we can get a stud at another position in the 1st and Hurts will be there in 2.

1.) He's on pace to outperform both Kyler & Baker
2.) At this point in  the process both Baker & Kyler were not considered  1st RD picks and especially not #1 overall picks.
3.) People are impressed by his mental toughness and leadership than anything else. How many guys would stay at a program that benched them in the Championship game?
Also how many of those same players would come off the bench and win a game to send the team to the playoffs.

[Clark W Griswold]

I have been right there with everyone saying they have to get their franchise QB if they are picking in the top 5. However there is a problem and his name is Chase Young.

If he is there he becomes a guy you have to pick. Maybe not the biggest need but if you can get your Mack/Miller/Watt/Bosa type of pass rusher then you do it. Young will be a great pick no matter where he goes. He’s a guy you just take and worry about needs later.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-26-2019, 01:28 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I have been right there with everyone saying they have to get their franchise QB if they are picking in the top 5. However there is a problem and his name is Chase Young.

If he is there he becomes a guy you have to pick. Maybe not the biggest need but if you can get your Mack/Miller/Watt/Bosa type of pass rusher then you do it. Young will be a great pick no matter where he goes. He’s a guy you just take and worry about needs later.

A game changing DE like him is literally the only position I’d be ok with passing on a QB that high for...

That said I still want a QB. Let Taylor take his guy, and see if he can develop him. If not, we’ll need a new HC in a couple years as well.

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2019, 11:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: I really don't get the hype with Hurts.  We've seen him in the same system and with a similar supporting cast as Baker and Kyler.  Those two are middling NFL QB's and Hurts isn't as good a prospect.  I'm not sure why anyone would see him as a potential franchise QB, except for wishful thinking that we can get a stud at another position in the 1st and Hurts will be there in 2.

Mayfield was a walk on and Murray was Kyle Allen's back up his Freshman year. Hurts was starting on the best team in the nation and setting Freshman records there. Nothing suggests either Mayfield or Murray were/are a better prospect than Hurts. 

As to their Oklahoma performance. The last year for each:

Murray- 14 games- 4361 yards 42 TDs 7 INTs 1001 rushing yards 12 TDs

Mayfield- 14 games- 4627 yards 43 TDs 6 INTs 311 rushing yards 5 TDs

Hurts- 7 games- 2074 yards 20 TDs 3 INTs 705 rushing yards 10 TDs

Throw in the fact that Hurts is a coaches son applauded for his maturity (see opposite Mayfield) and the dude was a power lifting champion in High School (see opposite Murray) and I find it hard to understand why the hype is not more. 

EDIT: Today's stats for Hurts 395 passing yards 9 rushing yards 4 TDs 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-26-2019, 05:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Mayfield was a walk on and Murray was Kyle Allen's back up his Freshman year. Hurts was starting on the best team in the nation and setting Freshman records there. Nothing suggests either Mayfield or Murray were/are a better prospect than Hurts. 

As to their Oklahoma performance. The last year for each:

Murray- 14 games- 4361 yards 42 TDs 7 INTs 1001 rushing yards 12 TDs

Mayfield- 14 games- 4627 yards 43 TDs 6 INTs 311 rushing yards 5 TDs

Hurts- 7 games- 2074 yards 20 TDs 3 INTs 705 rushing yards 10 TDs

Throw in the fact that Hurts is a coaches son applauded for his maturity (see opposite Mayfield) and the dude was a power lifting champion in High School (see opposite Murray) and I find it hard to understand why the hype is not more. 

EDIT: Today's stats for Hurts 395 passing yards 9 rushing yards 4 TDs 

He never put up big passing numbers at Alabama and i think there's a bit of a stigma with him being pulled for Tua in the championship game. 

He's definitely shown he can throw the ball at Oklahoma and he's a smooth, deceptive runner. With the hype for all the other guys, if the Bengals played their cards right, i could see a way to get 2 guys in the first and then take Hurts at the top of the 2nd round. 

I hate that feeling of a kid in a candy store but imagine getting Chase Young and a guy like Kindley/Throckmorton in the 1st and Hurts in the 2nd.

Or taking a Burrows/Herbert/Eason and getting Gross-Matos/Brown later in the round and Kindley at the top of the 2nd. 

[Au165]

Chase Young should be the #1 overall pick QB needy team or not. In the end he will be the highest graded pass rushing prospect we have seen in a decade. We have seen what Nick and Joey Bosa have done in their short careers and Chase Young is better.

[KillerGoose]

(10-28-2019, 08:06 AM)Au165 Wrote: Chase Young should be the #1 overall pick QB needy team or not. In the end he will be the highest graded pass rushing prospect we have seen in a decade. We have seen what Nick and Joey Bosa have done in their short careers and Chase Young is better.

I've warmed up to this idea. My concern is with the top guys (Herbert, Tua) is durability (Tua) and struggles under pressure (Herbert). This offensive line is an absolute sieve and there is very little run game to help. If they decide to select Chase Young and go heavy offensive line in the draft I wouldn't hate the move. 

If the Bengals make big moves in FA to bolster their line, I would lean more towards QB in the draft but I think that speaks to the talent that Young has. This Bengals team is in need of a rebuild and the possibility of starting with a DE like Young instead of a possible franchise QB is attractive. I would just worry about when they'd get their guy because I don't believe Hurts is anything special. Perhaps Eason? Try to go for Lawrence in 2021?