"Oh what tangled webs we weave"....The Finley situation

[*ochocincos*]

(11-01-2019, 04:03 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Say Finley does not work out and Dolegala but we still want to move on from Dalton. Do we pick our future Franchise QB and put him behind a bad O-line without a running game to speak of or do we fix the Oline and running game first? Then pick a QB the next year in the draft.

I think that answer comes down to how the Bengals would approach the draft.
One could argue that getting a better OL means your team will be better and therefore could cause you to pick later in the draft the following year(s).

Let's say the Bengals pick 12th next year after drafting Andrew Thomas this year.
If they are picking 12th, they likely are not getting a shot at the first, second, or maybe even third QB prospect in the draft.
At that point, they have to decide whether they want to give up draft picks to move up.

Or they could get a QB now given they very likely are getting a top 5 pick in what should be a good QB draft class.
They could get the QB now and deal with the QB getting having a bad OL for a year then address the OL in Rd 1 next year.

Or, you know, actually address OL in FA like a smart person would do and still get your QB in the draft. 

[mt415tress]

It’s not tangled or complex whatsoever.

Plenty of extraordinarily better quarterbacks Have been benched before, and done so by teams with an actual clue

The bengals benched a sh.itty, panicked loser who makes his team worse by playing. Wow. Who cares.

The guy They are throwing in is a lottery ticket. He’s a frail, weak armed 4th round long shot. Again, who cares. 99.9% chance Ryan finely isn’t the guy.

So you draft a qb top 2 and move on. Lol. Andy Dalton sucks. Why does anyone care he’s benched? He deserves to lose his job.

[WhodeyRay]

(11-01-2019, 12:48 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: Poor o-line and no run game. I think teams are gonna tee off on Finley and blitz the hell out of him. He does seem to have better pocket presence than Dalton but unless he is Lamar Jackson or Russel Wilson, no way he is escaping the heat that’s about to brought on him.

I agree I think we may see some flashes but I would also expect no less than 3 sacks a game with possible INT. They can shuffle any QB back there they want but until they address the o-line nothing will change.....NOTHING.

Well said and so true. Couldn't agree more.

[sonofstat]

(11-01-2019, 10:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So here are the possibilities for what is about to happen.

Finley plays lights out throwing to back up WRS on an offense with one of the worst run games in league history behind pass protection that has been allowing the third most sacks in the league. Result?  Everyone is thrilled.

Finley looks much worse than Dalton.  Result?  Pretty much everyone agrees we have to devote resources to finding a new QB in the offseason,

But here is the third option. I think it is the most probable.  Finley struggles in this offense but shows a few flashes.  Result?  Civil war among the fans.  Some will support him.  A lot of the "anyone but Dalton" crowd have invested a good bit in pumping up Finley.  They will have to stand behind their words and support him.  They will rave about his ability and claim he has what it takes to be a great NFL QB if we could just fix the O-line, playcalling, etc.  Others will argue that Finley has many weaknesses that caused him to fall to the fourth round and that we should give up on him and move on to another QB.  Others will just say that you have to give any QB more than 8 games his rookie season to see what he has.  They will say we should roll with Finley next year while using our resources to fix other problems around him and then get a QB the next offseason if he fails.

Personally I liked what I saw from Finley in preseason, but I have learned that I can't tell much about players from preseason games.  Coaches may be able to make judgements based on the nuances and details they can recognize, but preseason games are useless to me when evaluating players.  (And based on the history of these boards that seems to be the same for everyone else here.)  But I know it will be hard for me to judge Ryan based on the situation he is being thrown into.  It would be an amazing break if we were to have found our future QB with a fourth round pick.  So that is what I hope has happened, but what I mostly expect is another year of circular arguments based more on pre-concieved notions that what we will actually see on the field.

At this point I really do not have a huge amount of faith in ZT , so if Finley tanks and Dalton is not the option ongoing,  then I am very nervous on him leading the search for our new QB saviour.

Jay Gruden hit it out of the park when we took AJ Green and Andy Dalton in 2011, and he was working under tighter / constrained circumstances than ZT is.

People always say AJ Green was a slam dunk but how many Rd 1 WR's have not made it ....someone had to pick him and it was us.

Dalton was a Gruden pick ...loads of other QB's were selected high that year and even Mike Brown wanted Kaepernick.

Do you trust ZT to do a Jay Gruden in the 2020 draft at this point??

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-01-2019, 10:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So here are the possibilities for what is about to happen.

Finley plays lights out throwing to back up WRS on an offense with one of the worst run games in league history behind pass protection that has been allowing the third most sacks in the league. Result?  Everyone is thrilled.

Finley looks much worse than Dalton.  Result?  Pretty much everyone agrees we have to devote resources to finding a new QB in the offseason,

But here is the third option. I think it is the most probable.  Finley struggles in this offense but shows a few flashes.  Result?  Civil war among the fans.  Some will support him.  A lot of the "anyone but Dalton" crowd have invested a good bit in pumping up Finley.  They will have to stand behind their words and support him.  They will rave about his ability and claim he has what it takes to be a great NFL QB if we could just fix the O-line, playcalling, etc.  Others will argue that Finley has many weaknesses that caused him to fall to the fourth round and that we should give up on him and move on to another QB.  Others will just say that you have to give any QB more than 8 games his rookie season to see what he has.  They will say we should roll with Finley next year while using our resources to fix other problems around him and then get a QB the next offseason if he fails.

Personally I liked what I saw from Finley in preseason, but I have learned that I can't tell much about players from preseason games.  Coaches may be able to make judgements based on the nuances and details they can recognize, but preseason games are useless to me when evaluating players.  (And based on the history of these boards that seems to be the same for everyone else here.)  But I know it will be hard for me to judge Ryan based on the situation he is being thrown into.  It would be an amazing break if we were to have found our future QB with a fourth round pick.  So that is what I hope has happened, but what I mostly expect is another year of circular arguments based more on pre-concieved notions that what we will actually see on the field.

8 games is plenty. I don't think it will be that hard to tell if he's worth keeping as a starter or if he needs to be replaced. Last year, Driskel was clearly not an NFL starting QB, once he was given enough time to show his "talents". Plenty screamed for him and there's nothing wrong with that if you're not happy with the current starter. He showed what he had and now he's gone. 

If Finley moves better in the pocket and is able to extend plays and complete passes, increasing the ToP for the offense and decreasing it for the defense--if he's able to get the ball in the endzone from the redzone--if his passing causes the defense to soften up and play deeper, helping the run game--it will not be hard to decide if he's worth building around or if he needs to be replaced. 

There's too much "dalton hater/dalton lover" going on. It's possible to be done with the guy and not have to hitch your wagon to the next guy. I want a guy that can do the things i described above, whether it's Finley, Dolegala, Tua, Herbert, Eason or Hurts. I don't care as long as they get a guy that can produce. And if someone comes in and stinks it up, i'm going to be yelling for him to be replaced. 

That should be what everyone wants and not to "be right" about Dalton or not. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-01-2019, 10:47 AM)jj22 Wrote: Hopefully Finley can lead this team to 5 playoff appearances in 9 years (7 years if you just count the years he played majority of the season).

Hate Dalton if you want, but those are some big shoes to fill around here.

The journey starts vs Baltimore.

And we are probably in for civil war on this board regardless. For the Dalton haters (and the sake of the team success), hopefully this investment doesn't end up like their investment in McCarron and Driskel. They don't have the best eye for qb's. I think that's been established.

You're talking major shit. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-01-2019, 12:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's way too many syllables for a chant.
Do-le-ga-la is about as much as you can do for a chant.

Well, that does fit in perfectly with the clap, clap, clapclapclap chant. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-01-2019, 12:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do think one thing Finley has going for him is that he hasn't faced that heat for 3-4 years. Dalton has and it's in his head and it's ruined his mechanics.

So, let me get this straight. When Dalton was in, there were all the excuses why he wasn't better than he was. Now that he's out, the excuses are, he would have been better if he hadn't been sacked so much? Do we really need to keep making excuses for an ex-QB?

What a bunch of BS. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-01-2019, 01:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Too late. Unless you're talking about the coaching staff. Then maybe there's hope.


And the Dalton haters will start talking about the poor blocking and/or the receivers' drops.

Well, at least the goups will be easy to distinguish. If Finley comes in and stinks it up, and the people that bashed Dalton don't bash Finley...there ya go. 

[BengalsRocker]

(11-01-2019, 12:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm sick of seeing Cryin' Thinley get beat up behind this line, we need a real strong hunk o' man meat like Jake Dolegala back there!

So you're clamoring for "The D" ?

[fortyyearfan]

(11-01-2019, 05:32 PM)mt415tress Wrote: It’s not tangled or complex whatsoever.

Plenty of extraordinarily better quarterbacks Have been benched before, and done so by teams with an actual clue

The bengals benched a sh.itty,  panicked loser who makes his team worse by playing.  Wow.  Who cares.

The guy They are throwing in is a lottery ticket.  He’s a frail, weak armed 4th round long shot.  Again, who cares.   99.9% chance Ryan finely isn’t the guy.

So you draft a qb top 2 and move on.  Lol. Andy Dalton sucks. Why does anyone care he’s benched?  He deserves to lose his job.

RYAN FINLEY will be our QB barring injury and he will be our starter in 2020,we will beef up both lines and draft a top CB AND SAFETY. I really like the kid from ohio state,his number is ONE 1. AND ALSO CHASE YOUNG. DO NOT NEED A QB,WE HAVE THREE.And all three can play.If Andy Dalton had a super line,he would win a lot of games.It all starts with both your lines and without that you have nothing.Look at the top qbs they have great offensive lines.Its really really hard to get a top qb that can get you to the playoffs. Its massive hard, Gotta have everything working fort you,great tightends,great receivers,great running backs and a super line.it all fits together.ZT will put it together,give him time,he knows what he wants and he will get it.

[*psychdoctor*]

There is a fourth option Fred. Finley gets injured and the assessment of his ability is incomplete.

[BengalsBong]

(11-01-2019, 06:18 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I read around 3-5 posts of yours earlier today where you were complaining about someone not quoting you properly or "making stuff up" and i didn't say a single word. 

You ******* hypocrite. 

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 05:32 PM)mt415tress Wrote: It’s not tangled or complex whatsoever.

Plenty of extraordinarily better quarterbacks Have been benched before, and done so by teams with an actual clue

The bengals benched a sh.itty,  panicked loser who makes his team worse by playing.  Wow.  Who cares.

The guy They are throwing in is a lottery ticket.  He’s a frail, weak armed 4th round long shot.  Again, who cares.   99.9% chance Ryan finely isn’t the guy.

So you draft a qb top 2 and move on.  Lol. Andy Dalton sucks. Why does anyone care he’s benched?  He deserves to lose his job.

This is precious.

Your posts are so entertainning.

[TKUHL]

I really don’t see Dalton taking another snap unless Finley gets hurt. I think we will see Finley from here on out no matter how he plays. If he’s good, great. If he’s playing bad, well they will just have to keep him out there to see how he overcomes if, if he even can. That’s the whole point of this. To see what we have in him, good or bad, how he bounces back etc. I’m sure we will see Dolagala in some garbage time, which we should have plenty. Putting Dalton back out there does absolutely nothing at all. Hell we may switch to Dolagala if Finley is horrible before Dalton goes back in. Daltons done.

[TKUHL]

(11-01-2019, 10:47 AM)jj22 Wrote: Hopefully Finley can lead this team to 5 playoff appearances in 9 years (7 years if you just count the years he played majority of the season).

Hate Dalton if you want, but those are some big shoes to fill around here.

The journey starts vs Baltimore.

And we are probably in for civil war on this board regardless. For the Dalton haters (and the sake of the team success), hopefully this investment doesn't end up like their investment in McCarron and Driskel. They don't have the best eye for qb's. I think that's been established.

Interesting fact. The only 2 QB’s the Bengals interviewed in the offseason was Finley and Dolagala. So we will get a chance to see if they have an eye for talent or not. I hope they do but I wouldn’t bet on it.

[*jason*]

(11-01-2019, 01:04 PM)hotweales Wrote: I personally have always been in the bunch that AD is not the problem, but I believe it is time to move on.
I don't believe this because Andy sucks, but rather his contract sucks for where we are. If AD was a player that could elevate everyone and lead us to playoff wins, the contract is fine. AD needs strength around him to do this and therefore his contract at 17.5 is too much. Finley looks to have many of the attributes Andy did when he came out, so give him a try. If he performs adequately, we can move Andy in the offseason. Andy will now become an asset to help us move forward.

I have and will always watch and cheer for the Bengals despite their shortcomings.

I also don't sweat the small stuff!

I keep asking this question... I've not gotten an answer. Who is this QB that elevates the play of those around him?

Not necessarily asking you in particular, but maybe someone will bite.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 09:48 PM)TKUHL Wrote: I really don’t see Dalton taking another snap unless Finley gets hurt. I think we will see Finley from here on out no matter how he plays. If he’s good, great. If he’s playing bad, well they will just have to keep him out there to see how he overcomes if, if he even can. That’s the whole point of this. To see what we have in him, good or bad, how he bounces back etc. I’m sure we will see Dolagala in some garbage time, which we should have plenty. Putting Dalton back out there does absolutely nothing at all. Hell we may switch to Dolagala if Finley is horrible before Dalton goes back in. Daltons done.

There is no way Dalton takes another snap unless both Finley and Dolegala get injured.

If Taylor does try that then he truly is clueless as a head coach.

[*jason*]

(11-01-2019, 09:48 PM)TKUHL Wrote: I really don’t see Dalton taking another snap unless Finley gets hurt. I think we will see Finley from here on out no matter how he plays. If he’s good, great. If he’s playing bad, well they will just have to keep him out there to see how he overcomes if, if he even can. That’s the whole point of this. To see what we have in him, good or bad, how he bounces back etc. I’m sure we will see Dolagala in some garbage time, which we should have plenty. Putting Dalton back out there does absolutely nothing at all. Hell we may switch to Dolagala if Finley is horrible before Dalton goes back in. Daltons done.

Personally if I'm Dalton, I point to Jake Lettersalad if Finley gets hurt. His benching suggests that he's the problem, so someone else should be the solution. From this point forward, he has no obligation to help this team, or help groom his replacement. His future isn't here, so it's best if he just collects a check and has a seat.

[mt415tress]

Andy Dalton hasn’t helped the team win

He is an awful NFL quarterback.

Thank god he’s gone. He sucks. I don’t know why this is complicated for some