"Oh what tangled webs we weave"....The Finley situation

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2019, 11:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: lol. 

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-How-Andy-Dalton-reads-defense-as-well-as-anybody-in-the-league?pid=780745#pid780745
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-0-5-86-9-when-does-the-plug-get-pulled?pid=774271#pid774271
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-0-5-86-9-when-does-the-plug-get-pulled?pid=774553#pid774553
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-0-5-86-9-when-does-the-plug-get-pulled?pid=774583#pid774583
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-0-5-86-9-when-does-the-plug-get-pulled?pid=774584#pid774584

Here's a perfectly reasonable post explaining where i stand. One you completely ignore. 
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-0-5-86-9-when-does-the-plug-get-pulled?pid=775037#pid775037

And right after that post, you pick this out to reply to. 
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-0-5-86-9-when-does-the-plug-get-pulled?pid=775050#pid775050

Here's another thorough post spreading the blame around and giving legitimate reasons why a different QB could help the team.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-It-s-time-to-face-the-facts?pid=765324#pid765324

And here's your reply to it. Finding one example, a guy who rips Dalton to shreds all the time...
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-It-s-time-to-face-the-facts?pid=767374#pid767374

Here's a poster that realizes i post plenty of positive stuff about Dalton. 
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Andy-loses-us-another-big-game?pid=761853#pid761853

Here's a post that very succinctly explains the question i was asking before you started making up shit about how i was saying "all that matters" when shooting down your and other's examples.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Andy-loses-us-another-big-game?pid=762607#pid762607

Now back to the misquotes and made up stuff. 

I don't know where the hell you came up with this. Mixon is widely regarded as a better RB than Dalton is a QB. 
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-When-do-we-make-the-switch-at-QB?pid=765728#pid765728

Here's a perfect post to highlight your hypocrisy. I used raw stats to show that Keenum was playing better than Dalton and you posted to disagree, citing some lesser player being better than Khalil Mack because he had more stats...yet, you argued and mocked me that Dalton had a better game than Brissett had against the Colts because DALTON HAD BETTER RAW STATS! You can't make this stuff up, folks. Well, Fred can...
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-When-do-we-make-the-switch-at-QB?pid=765736#pid765736

And here's you going on about that damn Gopher again...
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-When-do-we-make-the-switch-at-QB?pid=765738#pid765738
Sorry, just had to break up the monotony of all these posts. 

Back to the misquotes...
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-When-do-we-make-the-switch-at-QB?pid=765749#pid765749
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-s-make-or-break-year?pid=737503#pid737503
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-s-make-or-break-year?pid=737505#pid737505
And here's another instance, in a long line of instances, of me explaining what i specifically was looking for.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-s-make-or-break-year?pid=737585#pid737585

And here i am saying that the types of gameS i'm looking for are the one's that elevate QBs in the eyes of commentators and fans. And your reply?...
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-s-make-or-break-year?pid=737895#pid737895
"Single game"??? Who the **** said anything about a single game?

Here's some more of that bullshit. I said "overall great game", you know...where he plays well throughout? Not just in the first half? And you completely butcherd the post and make shit up.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-s-make-or-break-year?pid=737897#pid737897

I said 'elevate QBs in other's eyes'. You changed it to...
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-s-make-or-break-year?pid=738147#pid738147

"won't count". Your favorite made up word.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-s-make-or-break-year?pid=738346#pid738346

Ok, that's quite enough for one night and it's just posts from the Dalton sub-forum. There's tenfold in JN. You misquote, make up your own words and logic and build up strawmen like you own a damn farm with the worlds biggest cornfield. But after doing that to not only me, but several people on this forum, you turn right around and tell people to stop--or they can't--make(ing) stuff up. 

If you're still confused after all this, seek help because you have a clear pattern of all you've been accused of and i'm not going to continue to waste my time showing you stuff you said. 

I'll just end for now, with this...

This is just me being Nostradamus, as usual. 
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-s-make-or-break-year?pid=738041#pid738041

How long did it take you to put that together?

Seems just putting Fred on Ignore would be a quicker option. :-)

[THE PISTONS]

(11-02-2019, 12:03 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Drafting O-line is a great plan. Teams like the Pats And Cowboys are loaded their line with first rounders. The only thig is we suck at drafting o-line players. Williams injured, Price a bona fide bust and don't get me started on Ogbeuhi. Whoever is scouting for us needs to be shown the door and new scouts hired.

Well...we have a really small scouting dept by NFL Standards. 2 to 3X smaller than teams like the Steelers and Patriots and 49ers. And the coaches do a lot of the scouting.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-02-2019, 03:18 AM)samhain Wrote: Bingo.  This team needs 2 starters on the o-line (3 if you don't count Jonah).  They need a full retooling of the linebacking corps.  They probably could use another young pass rusher.  They need a guy or 2 in the secondary.  The places on the roster without gaping holes have aging players that can't be expected to play in prime form for much longer.

I think they're in for a 3 year process of roster building if they manage to draft well.  Possibly shorter if they are active in free agency, but that's unlikely.  It's going to be a long slog.  I'm okay with a long slog if there's a direction to it. I don't see one right now.

And whey you talk 3 year process...guys like AJ, Geno, and Dunlap will be 34/35 when it's over...so you need to replace them too.

Not to mention guys we lose in free agency.

[Nati#1]

We'll be able to tell if he has it or not.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2019, 07:35 AM)Bronxbengal Wrote: You can win in this league with an average QB.  You can’t win with a horrible line (see the past three years).  I don’t understand why there is a line of thought that a top pick for QB will solve all the problems.  Get the best o line.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Finley or a high draft pick will not solve all the problems, and i haven't seen one single poster say that Finley or a high draft pick would solve all the problems. Sooooo many strawman arguments around this place i'm surprised the name of this site hasn't been changed to Hee Haw already. 

You can win in this league with an average QB, that's true. Dalton did it for several years, most notably in 2013 and 2015. But he did it with a good line, a decent run game, good WR (+AJ Green), good TEs and an excellent/elite(at times) defense. 

Unfortunately, in every instance, even though most of the team crashed in the playoff games, Dalton had very poor games in each of them as well, missing AJ Green for a TD in 2012 and going all Betty Crocker with the turnovers in 2013. 

I also, still don't understand the thinking that it's going to be easier and quicker to get 5 good guys together than it would be to replace 1 guy. The math doesn't agree with that and free agency/contracts don't agree with that. 

[mt415tress]

Im still waiting for someone to explain to me
Why benching a noodle arm, loser qb who is terrible
At the position is a complicated decision?

So far. Nothing.

It’s fine. Dalton is a joke. He gone!

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2019, 11:40 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How long did it take you to put that together?

Seems just putting Fred on Ignore would be a quicker option. :-)

About an hour. All of the previous arguments are still clear in my memory so it's not hard to scroll through that single forum to provide examples. 

As far as ignore...i'm not a quitter   and i have a problem letting a long, consistent history of mistrepresentations, misquotes and lies just drop by the wayside, when i make my points clearly and consistently and the proof is right there to be seen by anyone. 

And anyway...he said i couldn't back it up.

#challengeaccepted

[phil413]

(11-01-2019, 10:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So here are the possibilities for what is about to happen.

Finley plays lights out throwing to back up WRS on an offense with one of the worst run games in league history behind pass protection that has been allowing the third most sacks in the league. Result?  Everyone is thrilled.

Finley looks much worse than Dalton.  Result?  Pretty much everyone agrees we have to devote resources to finding a new QB in the offseason,

But here is the third option. I think it is the most probable.  Finley struggles in this offense but shows a few flashes.  Result?  Civil war among the fans.  Some will support him.  A lot of the "anyone but Dalton" crowd have invested a good bit in pumping up Finley.  They will have to stand behind their words and support him.  They will rave about his ability and claim he has what it takes to be a great NFL QB if we could just fix the O-line, playcalling, etc.  Others will argue that Finley has many weaknesses that caused him to fall to the fourth round and that we should give up on him and move on to another QB.  Others will just say that you have to give any QB more than 8 games his rookie season to see what he has.  They will say we should roll with Finley next year while using our resources to fix other problems around him and then get a QB the next offseason if he fails.

Personally I liked what I saw from Finley in preseason, but I have learned that I can't tell much about players from preseason games.  Coaches may be able to make judgements based on the nuances and details they can recognize, but preseason games are useless to me when evaluating players.  (And based on the history of these boards that seems to be the same for everyone else here.)  But I know it will be hard for me to judge Ryan based on the situation he is being thrown into.  It would be an amazing break if we were to have found our future QB with a fourth round pick.  So that is what I hope has happened, but what I mostly expect is another year of circular arguments based more on pre-concieved notions that what we will actually see on the field.

I think you're right about the third outcome being very realistic.  I trust your judgement in debates turning into circular arguments. 

It is tough to grade Finley in this situation, but the mistake to learn from is properly grading prospects.  Otherwise the FO is just passing on the next Mahomes, Watson, or Jackson vs settling for Finely or Dolegala replacing Dalton in the same circular argument.  It's not that the incumbent isn't good enough, it's that they (and I) saw Mahomes overrated and a possible system guy and didn't see what the Cheifs saw. 

Forget timing and the whole what good is a qb without a line argument.  It is the FO's job to have a much better or near fixed OL pre draft, failing to do that has nothing to do with grading a prospect let alone a QB.  

I hope for Finley he does well, but if he is indeed a solid backup type lets evaluate QB's properly instead of hoping he turns into Dalton.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2019, 11:44 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And whey you talk 3 year process...guys like AJ, Geno, and Dunlap will be 34/35 when it's over...so you need to replace them too.

Not to mention guys we lose in free agency.

Just another example of how the FO is delusional or stupid...or both. Which raises a reasonable question; do the Bengals have any idea what they're doing or do they just fly by the seats of their pants with fingers crossed and "hope" as their co-pilot. 

[Catmandude123]

When Dalton leaves that should free up 15 mil to sign players in free agency. If Aj doesn't prove he is still a top receiver in the last eight games then why pay him top money. The only thing is our leader absolutely refuses to sign any FA who isn't bargain basement.

[*bfine32*]

Are members of Andy's Army really suggesting that folks are over-pimping Finley? That's absolutely hilarious given their pimping of a mediocre QB over the last few years. Putting the kid in the replace the 29th rated QB in the NFL on a 0-8 team is absolutely the right move. Anyone who questions it needs to work on reality.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 11:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Here's a perfect post to highlight your hypocrisy. I used raw stats to show that Keenum was playing better than Dalton and you posted to disagree, citing some lesser player being better than Khalil Mack because he had more stats...yet, you argued and mocked me that Dalton had a better game than Brissett had against the Colts because DALTON HAD BETTER RAW STATS! You can't make this stuff up, folks. Well, Fred can...
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-When-do-we-make-the-switch-at-QB?pid=765736#pid765736

Yep, can't make this stuff up.

If I am a hypocrite for arguing Kenum was not better than Dalton just because he had better stats and at the same time saying Dalton had a better game than Brissett because he had better stats what does that say about you?

You tried to argue that Kenum was better than dalton because he had better stats, but then said Dalton's better stats didn't prove he had a better game than Brissett

Seems to me that makes you just as big of a hypocrite as me.  Or should I say

THAT MAKES YOU JUST AS BIG OF A HYPOCRITE AS ME!!!!!!!

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2019, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are members of Andy's Army really suggesting that folks are over-pimping Finley? That's absolutely hilarious given their pimping of a mediocre QB over the last few years. Putting the kid in the replace the 29th rated QB in the NFL on a 0-8 team is absolutely the right move. Anyone who questions it needs to work on reality.

No one is questioning the move.  I was just talking about the people who have been claiming Finley will do better than Dalton.

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2019, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No one is questioning the move.  I was just talking about the people who have been claiming Finley will do better than Dalton.

I must have misunderstood the whole Finley situation being a "tangled web". 

So what if folks hope Finley will do better and try to talk themselves and others into it. I personally question his arm, but I hope he balls out. Now there are those hoping the kid falls on his face so they can say "I told you so, see how smart I am" to the "Anybody but Dalton" crowd. 

[Luvnit2]

(11-02-2019, 02:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I must have misunderstood the whole Finley situation being a "tangled web". 

So what if folks hope Finley will do better and try to talk themselves and others into it. I personally question his arm, but I hope he balls out. Now there are those hoping the kid falls on his face so they can say "I told you so, see how smart I am" to the "Anybody but Dalton" crowd. 

This door swings both way if you are honest Bfine. The Dalton haters are praying Finley lights it u so they can say, see told you AD sucked.

But Green may help Finley, maybe if Glenn comes back too, but with no running game and average to poor OL hard for Tom Brady to look great in 2019 in my opinion. But if he does, it is great for the team if we have a franchise QB and grab Young versus a QB

[*bfine32*]

(11-02-2019, 03:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This door swings both way if you are honest Bfine. The Dalton haters are praying Finley lights it u so they can say, see told you AD sucked.

But Green may help Finley, maybe if Glenn comes back too, but with no running game and average to poor OL hard for Tom Brady to look great in 2019 in my opinion. But if he does, it is great for the team if we have a franchise QB and grab Young versus a QB

Sure there are. But that's the happy side to be on IMO. The "Dalton Haters" will be doubly happy if we start winning, while the Army will be kinda sad. 

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2019, 02:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Now there are those hoping the kid falls on his face so they can say "I told you so, see how smart I am" to the "Anybody but Dalton" crowd. 

Please don't start this silly shit.  Even the Dalton lovers want him to do well.  Over a month ago I made a post clearly stating that it would be amazing if we were able to find a new QB with a fourth round pick

The first time I dared to question Taylor's coaching ability I had to deal with accusations that I was just "defending Marvin".  Now a large majority are also questioning if he has the right stuff to be a good NFL head coach.

I just want the Bengals to win, and for years Dalton was our best option at QB.  I do not like Dalton more than the Bengals.

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2019, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The "Dalton Haters" will be doubly happy if we start winning, while the Army will be kinda sad. 

No one will be happier than me if the Bengals start winning.

[mt415tress]

The bungles benched a sh.itty Quarterback.

It’s such a simple and non complicated decision.

Nothing to see here

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2019, 02:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I must have misunderstood the whole Finley situation being a "tangled web". 

That is pretty obvious.  Go back and read the OP.  No where does it say that Finley should not be starting.

You are just so eager to start an arguiment that you didn't bother to read close enough.