Taylor seem to think the offensive line is playing well

[THE PISTONS]

(11-14-2019, 10:50 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The question shouldn't be whether Zac is in over his head but rather whether he's learning from his mistakes fast enough.

When they got him they knew he was super inexperienced but the feeling was that if he was good the only opportunity to hire someone like that was to hire them early.

He's certainly made mistakes - I expect there is plenty he'd change about his coaching staff if he had another opportunity. This off-season provides an opportunity for him to learn and rectify and will tell a lot about his long term prospects. I expect him to give up play-calling responsibilities and to appoint a new D coordinator before next season, although the latter may be easier said than done unless the Front Office commits to spending big in Free Agency.

I see little improvement in the team. His playcalling doesn't improve either. It's still really bad.

The defense is getting worse.

So you think he'll study up in the offseason and get better?

[BengalChris]

(11-14-2019, 09:13 AM)Au165 Wrote: ...I literally just said I'd be cool with firing him after 2 if it was the same results as this year. Not sure how you got from that to let's keep him 5.

I was just pointing that Mike Brown has kept losing coaches on for far too long in the past and that damages the team more than if he were to just cut them loose.

(11-14-2019, 10:50 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The question shouldn't be whether Zac is in over his head but rather whether he's learning from his mistakes fast enough.

When they got him they knew he was super inexperienced but the feeling was that if he was good the only opportunity to hire someone like that was to hire them early.

He's certainly made mistakes - I expect there is plenty he'd change about his coaching staff if he had another opportunity. This off-season provides an opportunity for him to learn and rectify and will tell a lot about his long term prospects. I expect him to give up play-calling responsibilities and to appoint a new D coordinator before next season, although the latter may be easier said than done unless the Front Office commits to spending big in Free Agency.

At 0-9 and yet another blow out loss, the team regressing as a whole across the boards (save for special teams), it's the coaching staff he chose and it was not forced on him like Marvin's was, is he learning anything at all other than how not to be successful. Look at all the guys who turned down the DC job. They saw this was a mess.

Do we want to just get by? Or is there a championship in mind?

If he isn't any good an play calling, doesn't seem to know a thing about defense, has assemble a coaching staff of his buddies, what exactly qualifies him to stay on as HC. Is there even one thing that he's gotten right?

He sees the team as improving, yet all I see are hopeless blowouts, laughter around the league and debates on whether this team is capable of winning a single game.

 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(11-14-2019, 12:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I see little improvement in the team. His playcalling doesn't improve either. It's still really bad.

The defense is getting worse.

So you think he'll study up in the offseason and get better?

He'll be much better placed to be a NFL Head Coach next season than he was at the start of this season and it'll be tough for the season to go much worse so it hardly seems to be going out on a limb to expect some improvement.

Whether that's still good enough is altogether another question.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-14-2019, 02:09 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: He'll be much better placed to be a NFL Head Coach next season than he was at the start of this season and it'll be tough for the season to go much worse so it hardly seems to be going out on a limb to expect some improvement.

Whether that's still good enough is altogether another question.

The main reason we hired him was for his innovative offensive mind. He doesn't have that. It's obvious.

Will we start 0-9 next year? Probably not. The bar is so low this year.

[BengalChris]

(11-14-2019, 02:09 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: He'll be much better placed to be a NFL Head Coach next season than he was at the start of this season and it'll be tough for the season to go much worse so it hardly seems to be going out on a limb to expect some improvement.

Whether that's still good enough is altogether another question.

It can still get worse. They could make a bunch of bad picks in the draft, again, while the team's better players depart and aren't being replaced by up and coming talent.

 

[Shake n Blake]

(11-13-2019, 03:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: I mean depending on if you are an optimist or a pessimist you could say he is a modern day Jimmy Johnson who was 0-8 and 1-15 overall his first year coaching. His average margin of defeat in his first 8 losses were 17 points and the average over all losses was 13.9. I get that it's in vogue here to be all "sky is falling" but this is kind of just cherry picking stats to drive a narrative. 

I'm not saying Taylor is a good coach, or he will ever be one, but trying to make proclamations based off 10 games is silly. We aren't a good team, had we kept Marvin and won 6 games no one here would be happy either. Rebuilds aren't fun and they take time, buckle up it's going to be a bumpy ride for a while.

Pointing to Jimmy Johnson turning around the Cowboys is kinda like using Tom Brady as an example of 6th round picks. 

For every Jimmy Johnson, there are 30 coaches who started like crap and stayed that way. 

People have a "sky is falling" attitude because the sky is kind of falling...and this organization hasn't earned any benefit of doubt with a rebuild.

[Shake n Blake]

I've said it before, but unless we are intentionally tanking, there is no reason to keep Taylor another year. I don't care what the roster looks like. This roster - truthfully - is no worse than last year, when we went 6-10. You can't go 0-9 (0-16?), set records for failure (on a franchise with plenty of failure) and be given a 2nd year "just cuz".

Why should I trust Taylor to rebuild when he can't even eke out a couple games with a core that should be good for 5-6 wins regardless of how awful the rest of the roster is? Why are we talking about giving Taylor a chance to shape the roster when it's clear Mike and co are still making all the choices?

[Au165]

(11-14-2019, 03:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've said it before, but unless we are intentionally tanking, there is no reason to keep Taylor another year. I don't care what the roster looks like. This roster - truthfully - is no worse than last year, when we went 6-10. You can't go 0-9 (0-16?), set records for failure (on a franchise with plenty of failure) and be given a 2nd year "just cuz".

Why should I trust Taylor to rebuild when he can't even eke out a couple games with a core that should be good for 5-6 wins regardless of how awful the rest of the roster is? Why are we talking about giving Taylor a chance to shape the roster when it's clear Mike and co are still making all the choices?

Again, if you can a coach after one year you will keep selecting from worse and worse candidates. Add in that most coaches avoid this place like the plague because of ownership and you can see quickly that you are going to burn through a lot of coaches. To have a good coach we have to take chances on guys no one else want, or are unknowns, and hope they develop into good coaches. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-14-2019, 03:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: Again, if you can a coach after one year you will keep selecting from worse and worse candidates. Add in that most coaches avoid this place like the plague because of ownership and you can see quickly that you are going to burn through a lot of coaches. To have a good coach we have to take chances on guys no one else want, or are unknowns, and hope they develop into good coaches. 

So say Taylor goes 1-15 this year...and 3-13 next year and we fire him...

Will coaches be like...Wow they gave Taylor 2 years! I want to go there?

[Au165]

(11-14-2019, 04:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So say Taylor goes 1-15 this year...and 3-13 next year and we fire him...

Will coaches be like...Wow they gave Taylor 2 years! I want to go there?

Yes, it really does make that much difference. If you only get one year to turn a team around and you start late and get the last pick of all coordinators then fire you after one year other coaches look at it as a place you are destined to fail. When the Cardinals fired Wilkes they got completely trashed.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-14-2019, 04:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yes, it really does make that much difference. If you only get one year to turn a team around and you start late and get the last pick of all coordinators then fire you after one year other coaches look at it as a place you are destined to fail. When the Cardinals fired Wilkes they got completely trashed.

You're missing the point. Taylor took largely the same roster...and took it from a 6 win team to a 0 win team.

Any qualified coach would realize that. Taylor is terrible...and is ruining the players that are here.

[Au165]

(11-14-2019, 04:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You're missing the point. Taylor took largely the same roster...and took it from a 6 win team to a 0 win team.

Any qualified coach would realize that. Taylor is terrible...and is ruining the players that are here.

I can see by your 10 threads in the last couple days trying to point everything out negative you possibly can that you are lashing out. This team has been on the decline for three years and we are bottoming out. If winning 6 games is some sort of point of pride I'm going to have to disagree. Again, you have to take swings at wholesale change and with the comes some growing pains. You have to let it go a bit and see how the whole thing responds or else you end up the browns for the last 20 years. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-14-2019, 04:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: I can see by your 10 threads in the last couple days trying to point everything out negative you possibly can that you are lashing out. This team has been on the decline for three years and we are bottoming out. If winning 6 games is some sort of point of pride I'm going to have to disagree. Again, you have to take swings at wholesale change and with the comes some growing pains. You have to let it go a bit and see how the whole thing responds or else you end up the browns for the last 20 years. 

But that's just it...we didn't make wholesale changes. We have largely the same roster!

You act like we cut all of our veterans and are rebuilding. This team was trying to 'win now'.

Other teams change staffs and don't have 0 wins right now. And...we are the new Browns!

[Au165]

(11-14-2019, 04:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But that's just it...we didn't make wholesale changes. We have largely the same roster!

You act like we cut all of our veterans and are rebuilding. This team was trying to 'win now'.

Other teams change staffs and don't have 0 wins right now. And...we are the new Browns!

There is a whole new scheme installed versus basically the same things for the most part for the last few years. We kept changing coordinators, especially on offense, but they were using a lot of the same plays and language. They at least were here before and could say "hey remember when we did this? It's like that but do this". People under appreciate how long it takes to install a scheme and then find players to fit it.

You are better off winning no games and getting a top pick than winning 5 games constantly and staying in purgatory. You either want to suck bad or you want to make the playoffs dwelling in between is a death sentence. We have been that team for the last couple years and it hindered our ability to add quality talent, along with simply missing on who we drafted. 

Build up the roster here while we see what Taylor is and if we fire him we have more to offer a new coach than we do right now.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-14-2019, 04:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: There is a whole new scheme installed versus basically the same things for the most part for the last few years. We kept changing coordinators, especially on offense, but they were using a lot of the same plays and language. They at least were here before and could say "hey remember when we did this? It's like that but do this". People under appreciate how long it takes to install a scheme and then find players to fit it.

You are better off winning no games and getting a top pick than winning 5 games constantly and staying in purgatory. You either want to suck bad or you want to make the playoffs dwelling in between is a death sentence. We have been that team for the last couple years and it hindered our ability to add quality talent, along with simply missing on who we drafted. 

Build up the roster here while we see what Taylor is and if we fire him we have more to offer a new coach than we do right now.

Other teams change coaches/schemes and aren't this bad.

In regards to being better off winning 0 games...we're terrible. Basically the entire roster has regressed. We're not 1 player away. This staff is making our players worse.

It's harder to build a roster, when you're taking players who were good like Bates and making them terrible.

[Catmandude123]

(11-14-2019, 01:49 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I was just pointing that Mike Brown has kept losing coaches on for far too long in the past and that damages the team more than if he were to just cut them loose.



At 0-9 and yet another blow out loss, the team regressing as a whole across the boards (save for special teams), it's the coaching staff he chose and it was not forced on him like Marvin's was, is he learning anything at all other than how not to be successful. Look at all the guys who turned down the DC job. They saw this was a mess.

Do we want to just get by? Or is there a championship in mind?

If he isn't any good an play calling, doesn't seem to know a thing about defense, has assemble a coaching staff of his buddies, what exactly qualifies him to stay on as HC. Is there even one thing that he's gotten right?

He sees the team as improving, yet all I see are hopeless blowouts, laughter around the league and debates on whether this team is capable of winning a single game.

 

They really have only been blown out in three of the games. Losses by one, three and six and the other games by two scores. I agree that the defense isn't helping at all and the rookie QB has some growing to do. The season is over but hopefully the team won't implode and the fans can see some hope for the future.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-14-2019, 04:45 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: They really have only been blown out in three of the games. Losses by one, three and six and the other games by two scores. I agree that the defense isn't helping at all and the rookie QB has some growing to do. The season is over but hopefully the team won't implode and the fans can see some hope for the future.

I posted a comparison in another thread to 1993 and we're basically losing games by a similar average margin as then.

Teams just doing get beat by 30 every game in the NFL. Doesn't mean it's good.

[BengalChris]

(11-14-2019, 04:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yes, it really does make that much difference. If you only get one year to turn a team around and you start late and get the last pick of all coordinators then fire you after one year other coaches look at it as a place you are destined to fail. When the Cardinals fired Wilkes they got completely trashed.

Getting 5 or 6 or 7 wins would be not turning a 6 team around.

Nosediving a 6 team to 0 wins is a whole new level of bad.

 

[BengalsRocker]

(11-14-2019, 06:17 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Getting 5 or 6 or 7 wins would be not turning a 6 team around.

Nosediving a 6 team to 0 wins is a whole new level of bad.

 

Right. 

Unless you're tanking for rebuild and fire-sale vets for picks.

They aren't doing it that way.

This right now it feels like a mix of Mike Brown's philosophies and a desperate coach without a real plan using scapegoats and throwing stuff up against the wall to see if it sticks.

It's surely not his fault or his staff's.


That's pretty accurate.

[Catmandude123]

(11-14-2019, 01:49 PM)BengalChris Wrote: He sees the team as improving, yet all I see are hopeless blowouts, 

 

Three games he lost by a total of NINE points. Were they blow outs? They have had some very bad games and nothing we gripe about is going to change any of that. My alternate thing for the rest of the season is seeing what improvement the team can make in the future.