Finley's "pocket awareness"

[fredtoast]

As I have said before, I don't think it is fair to judge Finley after just three games. He did not work with the first team untill 5 weeks ago, and he does not have the talent around him to succeed. But I do want to point out one issue for which many people praised Finley and even claimed he was superior to Dalton. That is "pocket awareness" and his ability to avoid sacks.

Finley does not have enough attempts to qualify, but if he did he would rank next to last (34th) in sack percentage (11.2) ahead of only Marcus Mariota. Dalton ranks 24th (7.9). The league average is 6.9%.

Finley is also one of only 4 QBs who have more fumbles (4) than games played (3). Danial Jones has 14 fumbles in just 10 games; Gardner Minshaw has 11 in 9; and Mike Glennon has 3 in 2.

Give Finley a full training camp and regular season to get used to an NFL pass rush and he will likely improve, but he certainly did not deserve all the praise he got for being able to avoid sacks or extend plays.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-25-2019, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As I have said before, I don't think it is fair to judge Finley after just three games.  He did not work with the first team untill 5 weeks ago, and he does not have the talent around him to succeed.  But I do want to point out one issue for which many people praised Finley and even claimed he was superior to Dalton.  That is "pocket awareness" and his ability to avoid sacks.

Finley does not have enough attempts to qualify, but if he did he would rank next to last (34th) in sack percentage (11.2) ahead of only Marcus Mariota.  Dalton ranks 24th (7.9).  The league average is 6.9%.

Finley is also one of only 4 QBs who have more fumbles (4) than games played (3).  Danial Jones has 14 fumbles in just 10 games;  Gardner Minshaw has 11 in 9; and Mike Glennon has 3 in 2.

Give Finley a full training camp and regular season to get used to an NFL pass rush and he will likely improve, but he certainly did not deserve all the praise he got for being able to avoid sacks or extend plays.

I've said the same thing without the stats to back my eye test. Nice work.

[*jason*]

You know it's bad when there wasn't a doubt in my mind that he would fumble when I saw Dupree coming.

[impactplaya]

Findley simply for starters lacks a NFL arm. I've seen alot of NFL QBs over my years . Findley has among the worst
He makes Paul Justin look like Carson Palmer.

Findley has more issues than pocket awareness.
He cannot place the ball even over the correct shoulder .
His ball lacks so much velocity his targets have gear down and
Wait for the ball.

His presnap reads are questionable.

That throw to TB was all Boyd. Findley hung that up for so long
TB could have gotten a Big Gulp at 7 11 and came back

[Catmandude123]

(11-25-2019, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As I have said before, I don't think it is fair to judge Finley after just three games.  He did not work with the first team untill 5 weeks ago, and he does not have the talent around him to succeed.  But I do want to point out one issue for which many people praised Finley and even claimed he was superior to Dalton.  That is "pocket awareness" and his ability to avoid sacks.

Finley does not have enough attempts to qualify, but if he did he would rank next to last (34th) in sack percentage (11.2) ahead of only Marcus Mariota.  Dalton ranks 24th (7.9).  The league average is 6.9%.

Finley is also one of only 4 QBs who have more fumbles (4) than games played (3).  Danial Jones has 14 fumbles in just 10 games;  Gardner Minshaw has 11 in 9; and Mike Glennon has 3 in 2.

Give Finley a full training camp and regular season to get used to an NFL pass rush and he will likely improve, but he certainly did not deserve all the praise he got for being able to avoid sacks or extend plays.

While the defense gave Finley more chances than Dalton got(eight three and outs. Dalton only mustered up three points against the Steelers. He was also 0-10 in his last games against Pitt. What ever happens after this season its pretty obvious neither one is the long term answer for the Bengals if they want to go anywhere in the future.

[Luvnit2]

(11-25-2019, 03:20 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: While the defense gave Finley more chances than Dalton got(eight three and outs. Dalton only mustered up three points against the Steelers. He was also 0-10 in his last games against Pitt. What ever happens after this season its pretty obvious neither one is the long term answer for the Bengals if they want to go anywhere in the future.

It is obvious we have a talent issue on the OL and are a bad offense missing our #1 (all pro) and #3 receiver who still leads us in TD catches in 2019 even though he has not played in a long time.

[jj22]

Finley avoided one sack, and made a throw as he shifted away from a defender against the Redskins in preseason and he was deemed better than Dalton. That's all it took.

That's all some needed.

I don't even think it was a scoring drive.

[Circleville Guy]

Those are things that he could become better at but with that noodle arm, it’s pretty much pointless.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-25-2019, 03:20 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: While the defense gave Finley more chances than Dalton got(eight three and outs. Dalton only mustered up three points against the Steelers. He was also 0-10 in his last games against Pitt. What ever happens after this season its pretty obvious neither one is the long term answer for the Bengals if they want to go anywhere in the future.

What we saw out of Dalton is what a decent QB looks like on a team that has rotted around him. At the time Dalton went down, we were averaging a putrid 59.5 rush yards per game (we've averaged 138.7 in Finley's 3 starts), and 2 of our top 3 receivers are out. Not to mention our defense is 29th in turnovers forced and dead last in yards allowed, which means fewer opportunities for the offense.

Dalton is the same as he's ever been. A solid starter. Nothing amazing, nor abysmal. He can get it done if the team is solid around him. It's far from that. That said, it's beyond time to move on. The relationship is fractured, and at some point you just have to try something else. Especially when the team is rebuilding.

I wish Dalton well, he put in some good years for us and was a class act off the field. I can't wait to see what he can offer a different team, and I'm also looking forward to seeing Joe Burrow as a Bengal, assuming we fix this o-line and make some acquisitions on the defensive side.

As to Finley. It's a wrap. I'd give him the rest of the season (why not?), but he has a noodle arm. You can't fix that.

[XenoMorph]

(11-25-2019, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: Finley avoided one sack, and made a throw as he shifted away from a defender against the Redskins in preseason and he was deemed better than Dalton. That's all it took.

That's all some needed.

I don't even think it was a scoring drive.

puke puke pass  >>>> finley

[higgy100]

(11-25-2019, 03:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is obvious we have a talent issue on the OL and are a bad offense missing our #1 (all pro) and #3 receiver who still leads us in TD catches in 2019 even though he has not played in a long time.

Yep, extreme talent issue on the OL with an inexperienced QB ain't a god mix....

[Catmandude123]

(11-25-2019, 04:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What we saw out of Dalton is what a decent QB looks like on a team that has rotted around him. At the time Dalton went down, we were averaging a putrid 59.5 rush yards per game (we've averaged 138.7 in Finley's 3 starts), and 2 of our top 3 receivers are out. Not to mention our defense is 29th in turnovers forced and dead last in yards allowed, which means fewer opportunities for the offense.

Dalton is the same as he's ever been. A solid starter. Nothing amazing, nor abysmal. He can get it done if the team is solid around him. It's far from that. That said, it's beyond time to move on. The relationship is fractured, and at some point you just have to try something else. Especially when the team is rebuilding.

I wish Dalton well, he put in some good years for us and was a class act off the field. I can't wait to see what he can offer a different team, and I'm also looking forward to seeing Joe Burrow as a Bengal, assuming we fix this o-line and make some acquisitions on the defensive side.

As to Finley. It's a wrap. I'd give him the rest of the season (why not?), but he has a noodle arm. You can't fix that.

Dalton was 0-10 in his last ten starts against Pitt. Given nine more chances how worse can Finley be? How come when its Dalton's ineptitude its the players around him but you act like Finley is playing with an all pro team. Don't look now but your Andyness is showing.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-25-2019, 03:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is obvious we have a talent issue on the OL and are a bad offense missing our #1 (all pro) and #3 receiver who still leads us in TD catches in 2019 even though he has not played in a long time.

I'd modify your signature from "buy season tickets" to "go to a game." 

[Shake n Blake]

(11-25-2019, 05:46 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Dalton was 0-10 in his last ten starts against Pitt. Given nine more chances how worse can Finley be? How come when its Dalton's ineptitude its the players around him but you act like Finley is playing with an all pro team. Don't look now but your Andyness is showing.

Palmer was 4-8 against the Steelers as a Bengal, with a passer rating in the low 70's. We've struggled against the Steelers for a long time. I'm not judging Finley on just that game. He's played terribly in all 3 starts, and it's pretty apparent his arm is going to be a severe weakness. Do you really want to die on Finley hill?

My "Andyness" (how 3rd grade of you) is showing so much that I want to cut him after this season and draft Joe Burrow.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-25-2019, 06:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Palmer was 4-8 against the Steelers as a Bengal, with a passer rating in the low 70's. We've struggled against the Steelers for a long time. I'm not judging Finley on just that game. He's played terribly in all 3 starts, and it's pretty apparent his arm is going to be a severe weakness. Do you really want to die on Finley hill?

My "Andyness" (how 3rd grade of you) is showing so much that I want to cut him after this season and draft Joe Burrow.

At least put a pillow over your lap to cover your Andyness, Shake. Common decency is all we ask here.  

[Shake n Blake]

(11-25-2019, 06:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: At least put a pillow over your lap to cover your Andyness, Shake. Common decency is all we ask here.  

:andy:  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-25-2019, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: Finley avoided one sack, and made a throw as he shifted away from a defender against the Redskins in preseason and he was deemed better than Dalton. That's all it took.

That's all some needed.

I don't even think it was a scoring drive.

This.


I'll say he does some good things, he's just not ready for the NFL. He may make a serviceable backup someday though. I'm not gonna trash the young man behind this line and with these receivers though. I've described what I thought were his flaws and strong points. 

He's not better than 14 though. By quite a stretch.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-25-2019, 04:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What we saw out of Dalton is what a decent QB looks like on a team that has rotted around him. At the time Dalton went down, we were averaging a putrid 59.5 rush yards per game (we've averaged 138.7 in Finley's 3 starts), and 2 of our top 3 receivers are out. Not to mention our defense is 29th in turnovers forced and dead last in yards allowed, which means fewer opportunities for the offense.

Dalton is the same as he's ever been. A solid starter. Nothing amazing, nor abysmal. He can get it done if the team is solid around him. It's far from that. That said, it's beyond time to move on. The relationship is fractured, and at some point you just have to try something else. Especially when the team is rebuilding.

I wish Dalton well, he put in some good years for us and was a class act off the field. I can't wait to see what he can offer a different team, and I'm also looking forward to seeing Joe Burrow as a Bengal, assuming we fix this o-line and make some acquisitions on the defensive side.

As to Finley. It's a wrap. I'd give him the rest of the season (why not?), but he has a noodle arm. You can't fix that.

I'd really like to see Dolegala play a couple games. At least it'd be interesting. 

[Catmandude123]

(11-25-2019, 06:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Palmer was 4-8 against the Steelers as a Bengal, with a passer rating in the low 70's. We've struggled against the Steelers for a long time. I'm not judging Finley on just that game. He's played terribly in all 3 starts, and it's pretty apparent his arm is going to be a severe weakness. Do you really want to die on Finley hill?

My "Andyness" (how 3rd grade of you) is showing so much that I want to cut him after this season and draft Joe Burrow.

I don't want to die on Finley hill ,what ever that means ,but going thru more of ADs middling seasons would be unbearable. Andy losing ten straight to the Steelers even when he had good teams just emphasizes the Andyness in people who want to keep him to still be the QB.

[jj22]

I would have liked to have seen Jake. We need to see Ross and he'd have a qb that can take advantage of his skillset. But they need a win more than they need to evaluate. If we had a win, Dalton would still be on the bench.

Finley had everything but the arm, and who knows how much better it'll get given his age.

The story is likely still out on him. I can see an offseason of Hobspin full of the Goff comparisons and the "rough" rookie years they had.