Back to Dalton we go

[THE PISTONS]

(11-29-2019, 10:10 PM)jason Wrote: AJ saw what happened to Earl Thomas last year. He held out for an extension, didn't get it, then showed up and played. Then he had a season ending injury. I thought it was great when he flipped off Seahawks management as he was being carted from the field. He rushed back from injury last year to help Driskell in his first start, and got reinjured by doing so. When he was hurt in 2016 he was pissed when the team shut him down. In my opinion, he's earned the benefit of the doubt.

Great post.

I think AJ banked on the Bengals loyalty too for a nice contract offer. Essentially rewarding him for being a good soldier.

But, yeah...he's like 32 and will have made it through 1 practice and missed his past 25 games. He'll likely be looking at 1 and 2 year deals for the rest of his career.

[Catmandude123]

(11-30-2019, 01:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because just year before last they traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league and we have usedf 3 of our last 5 first round picks on the offensive line.

People who claim the Bengals don't try to fix the O-line are wearing blinders.

 If he was so good why did the Bills  trade him? Just because Glenn had a high salary doesn't make him the eighth best OT. If the front office doesn't try to sign OL help they will be hard pressed to sell season tickets.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-30-2019, 06:42 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  If he was so good why did the Bills  trade him? Just because Glenn had a high salary doesn't make him the eighth best OT. If the front office doesn't try to sign OL help they will be hard pressed to sell season tickets.

The Bills traded him because he was the 8th highest paid tackle and he was injured for them the past 2 years...and his play declined. They had a younger Tackle that was paid less that took his spot. ie They dumped Glenn on us.

Fred is right though that the Bengals have 'tried'. They've made moves to improve the offensive line...they've just mostly failed. It's a results oriented league and 'trying' just doesn't cut it.

As you pointed out...salary doesn't equate to good play. Glenn has been average at best since we got him and mostly below average.

[Catmandude123]

(11-30-2019, 06:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Bills traded him because he was the 8th highest paid tackle and he was injured for them the past 2 years...and his play declined. They had a younger Tackle that was paid less that took his spot. ie They dumped Glenn on us.

Fred is right though that the Bengals have 'tried'. They've made moves to improve the offensive line...they've just mostly failed. It's a results oriented league and 'trying' just doesn't cut it.

As you pointed out...salary doesn't equate to good play. Glenn has been average at best since we got him and mostly below average.

Bingo !!! Just because the Bills overpaid him doesn't mean we are competing in free agency. If you have a top 8 tackle you can trade him straight up for a first round pick instead of moving back 6 spots.

[The Caped Crusader]

(11-29-2019, 11:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: ^That + Jonah Williams.

This.

That and I think with the second-round pick you take an interior lineman. You move on from Billy Price and Bobby Hart. I think at this point, you just have to. I feel quite confident plugging in a second and third round picks would do much better than what we have now.

Depending on the Dalton situation, we could use that trade to solidify the line for whatever QB.

Or we could do all that and disappoint us even more so.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-30-2019, 11:47 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Bingo !!! Just because the Bills overpaid him doesn't mean we are competing in free agency. If you have a top 8 tackle you can trade him straight up for a first round pick instead of moving back 6 spots.

Meanwhile...the Bills picked at 16 where we would have picked. We picked at 21.

16: The Bills take LB: Tremaine Edmunds - Graded out at 68.7 PFF right now. 4.54 speed at 250 lbs at combine.
17: Derwin James S: 1st Team All-Pro as a rookie. (He's been hurt this year so far but is coming back this weekend.)
18: Jaire Alexander CB (Currently 70.7 PFF Grade)
19: Leighton Vander Esch: 2nd Team All-Pro as a rookie LB. We could use a guy like this.
20: Frank Ragnow C: Arkansas - I've heard this is the guy we really wanted.
21: Billy Price

So basically EVERY player between the pick we traded and where we picked had a good young player. 2 guys would have vastly upgraded us at LB. James is possibly a generational Safety. Ragnow would have helped our line a lot.

[reuben.ahmed]

does aj green still have ingrown toenail issue

[fredtoast]

(11-30-2019, 11:47 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Bingo !!! Just because the Bills overpaid him doesn't mean we are competing in free agency. 

This circular logic is getting ridiculous.

When the Bengals sign reasonably priced players who transformed our defense in '11 fans ***** and squeal about how "Those guys don't count because they were not high priced players."  But when the Bengals actually take on a high price contract same fans keep squealing and crying about how the Bengals "Are not even trying".

[fredtoast]

(11-30-2019, 06:42 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  If he was so good why did the Bills trade him?

You know where every single free agent on the market comes from?

A team that refused to pay him.

Does that mean every free agent is garbage?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-01-2019, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You know where every single free agent on the market comes from?

A team that refused to pay him.

Does that mean every free agent is garbage?

There’s cases like Marvin Jones where his former team tried to pay him but the player wanted to move on for whatever reason (to be a #1 in that case).

[Catmandude123]

(12-01-2019, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You know where every single free agent on the market comes from?

A team that refused to pay him.

Does that mean every free agent is garbage?

You implied he was the eight best but truthfully you should have noted he wasn't worth being the 8th highest paid to the Bills and I think most teams would concur. The Bengals got him tossed in for moving back not because he was some ultra talent. Whatever the cost the Bengals need to be in the bidding for top free agents

[Catmandude123]

(12-01-2019, 01:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This circular logic is getting ridiculous.

When the Bengals sign reasonably priced players who transformed our defense in '11 fans ***** and squeal about how "Those guys don't count because they were not high priced players."  But when the Bengals actually take on a high price contract same fans keep squealing and crying about how the Bengals "Are not even trying".

Here is my logic . The Bengals have 13 million right now in cap space. If they wouldn.t have given Hart 7 mil they could have signed a better lineman. If they didn't give Brown 5 mill they could have signed a better line backer. You can't wait until all the top players are gone and then have to settle for their own players because all the good ones are gone. But that's just how I see it. I guess you think they should just do what they have been doing , ignore high priced FAs , draft(they're so good at this),  then scrum thru the rest of the bottom of the barrel to make up the rest of the team. Why should they change what they have been doing ? Its worked so well.

[Catmandude123]

(12-01-2019, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You know where every single free agent on the market comes from?

A team that refused to pay him

If he is talented he was let go because some teams salary cap wouldn't let them sign him. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-01-2019, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You know where every single free agent on the market comes from?

A team that refused to pay him.

Does that mean every free agent is garbage?

That's a GIANT over simplification.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Is Glenn great? No. Does he make our line better? You're lying if you say no.

[*Nately120*]

Dalton wins!  SUCK IT haters!

Here is a picture of me celebrating:

[THE PISTONS]

(12-01-2019, 12:31 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: This.

That and I think with the second-round pick you take an interior lineman. You move on from Billy Price and Bobby Hart. I think at this point, you just have to. I feel quite confident plugging in a second and third round picks would do much better than what we have now.

Depending on the Dalton situation, we could use that trade to solidify the line for whatever QB.

Or we could do all that and disappoint us even more so.

Indeed. Hart as a backup T is ok. Hart as a starter isn't.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-01-2019, 01:56 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Here is my logic . The Bengals have 13 million right now in cap space. If they wouldn.t have given Hart 7 mil they could have signed a better lineman. If they didn't give Brown 5 mill they could have signed a better line backer. You can't wait until all the top players are gone and then have to settle for their own players because all the good ones are gone. But that's just how I see it. I guess you think they should just do what they have been doing , ignore high priced FAs , draft(they're so good at this),  then scrum thru the rest of the bottom of the barrel to make up the rest of the team. Why should they change what they have been doing ? Its worked so well.

Indeed. Quality over quantity.

Go out and get a Conklin at Tackle instead of a Miller/Hart/Webb.

Man...the Bills rebuilt their offensive line and team using free agency this past offseason. They should be the textbook case for what we need to do.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-27-2019, 08:42 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Good thing they don't play on the frozen tundra.

True. Even so, it's pathetic that an NFL team has to alter practice plans due to inclement weather.

Just build a damn facility like the other 30+ teams (we're the northern-most team without one).

(11-30-2019, 01:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because just year before last they traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league and we have used 3 of our last 5 first round picks on the offensive line.

People who claim the Bengals don't try to fix the O-line are wearing blinders.

They clearly haven't done enough. You can't rely solely on the draft, and our line has been awful for 4 straight years, with Glenn being the only decent (we thought) veteran we've brought in. We've also sat on bad players for too long. Glenn didn't work, but we brought him back at a steep price tag. We overpaid Hart when we should've moved on. We kept the Ogbuehi experiment going too long. Etc.

[samhain]

(12-01-2019, 07:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. Hart as a backup T is ok. Hart as a starter isn't.

He was a stopgap when the signed him.  He should never have been an intended starter.  that was the dumbest, laziest move I've ever seen them make.  Take the stopgap, pay him like a starter, therefore h'es a starter, lol.  

It was a move so stupid, that I was shocked that even the Bengals brass would make it.  My hopes for 2019 basically died that day.