Article - Says AD not main issue

[SunsetBengal]

(12-25-2019, 08:49 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: That I agree with.


Honestly guys even with the injury to Green.  What excuse does any NFL coach have for winning only one game with the rest of the roster?

You guys can fantasize all you want about Taylor showing us his beautiful football brain.

He is terrible. :paul:

Are you forgetting WHO exactly it is, that runs this team?  I'll give you one clue, and it ain't Zac Taylor...

All firing the young guy, after one dismal season does, is start a revolving door of coaches, just like Cleveland has been doing.  Speaking of Cleveland, they brought in John Dorsey, a supposed "smart GM", to turn their franchise around.  They tried a Jacksonville style of cut and replace, this past offseason.  They amassed a tremendous amount of talent on that team, yet they still ain't shit, and their fans are still calling for a coaching change.

The Brown family fell in love with Zac Taylor, he's their guy.  You, me, and everyone else had better just get used to him being around for a while, and hoping that he grows up fast.

[Joelist]

Let's be honest. Our selection of OCs over the years has been less than stellar. The only time we had a real, NFL quality OC in the house in recent history was Hue Jackson - and when he had the reins the offense moved well and Andy was in the MVP conversation prior to the injury. We really need an NFL caliber OC brought in and then kept long enough to get players settled into a true pro style system.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-25-2019, 09:37 PM)Joelist Wrote: Let's be honest. Our selection of OCs over the years has been less than stellar. The only time we had a real, NFL quality OC in the house in recent history was Hue Jackson - and when he had the reins the offense moved well and Andy was in the MVP conversation prior to the injury. We really need an NFL caliber OC brought in and then kept long enough to get players settled into a true pro style system.

Other than Darrin Simmons and MAYBE Alex Van Pelt, can you name anyone on the Bengals’ coaching staff who is truly championship caliber?

[BengalsRocker]

(12-25-2019, 09:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you forgetting WHO exactly it is, that runs this team?  I'll give you one clue, and it ain't Zac Taylor...

All firing the young guy, after one dismal season does, is start a revolving door of coaches, just like Cleveland has been doing.  Speaking of Cleveland, they brought in John Dorsey, a supposed "smart GM", to turn their franchise around.  They tried a Jacksonville style of cut and replace, this past offseason.  They amassed a tremendous amount of talent on that team, yet they still ain't shit, and their fans are still calling for a coaching change.

The Brown family fell in love with Zac Taylor, he's their guy.  You, me, and everyone else had better just get used to him being around for a while, and hoping that he grows up fast.

Yes the Browns are in their predicament because Kitchens sucks too as a HC.

I think you answered yourself about Zac.

We could have had a capable GM and been in the same boat with a terrible coach.

In retrospect I think most fans now realize that Marvin was able to make not-so-tasty yet drinkable lemonade out of Mikey's lemons.

[BengalsRocker]

To get the thread back on track.  These all are the main issue.  Can most of us agree?  Any personnel issues, coaching decisions, and bad FA/Draft can be attributed to the first two.  Dalton gets to drive whatever they hand the keys over to.  Is it enough for a QB that's better than Dalton to win a Championship?

1. Brown/Tobin/Blackburn
2. Taylor
3. Dalton

[Whatever]

(12-25-2019, 11:56 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I know this will upset many who want AD gone, those who attack him and call him a bum and worse.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001091582/article/offensive-player-rankings-week-17-3-offenses-in-need-of-revamp

It places the blame on our offense on our OL (we all agree) and on ZT and his 60% pass play calling thus under utilizing Mixon. It also points out the lack of play action used by ZT.

Personally, I think AD needs a change of scenery like many and time for Joe Burrow or best QB in draft (projected). But it does align what many have said, trade down and get more picks to rebuild the OL and then look at QB in round 2 or late round 1.

It also places the offensive woes squarely on ZT, not AD as many believed to be the main problem.

Thoughts??

Andy is what he is.  He's middle of the road starting QB coming up on the end of his contract.  If you're not giving him a $20+ mil a year deal, you have to go Burrow at #1.  You shouldn't give him that kind of a deal because the worst thing you can do is sign a mediocre starter to a big money deal.  

We can look at run/pass percentages, but the run game was largely ineffective the first half of the year and we are generally behind on the scoreboard, both of which cause you to pass more. 

Teams will give a boatload to move up for a QB because you can't win without one.  Get your QB, and then build around him.  Otherwise, you're going to give up a boatload to move up and get one in a couple of years.  

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-25-2019, 09:59 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: To get the thread back on track. Is it enough for a QB that's better than Dalton to win a Championship?

Honestly? No. It’s going to take a complete offensive overhaul for any quarterback to be successful in Cincinnati.

[Luvnit2]

(12-25-2019, 10:07 PM)Whatever Wrote: Andy is what he is.  He's middle of the road starting QB coming up on the end of his contract.  If you're not giving him a $20+ mil a year deal, you have to go Burrow at #1.  You shouldn't give him that kind of a deal because the worst thing you can do is sign a mediocre starter to a big money deal.  

We can look at run/pass percentages, but the run game was largely ineffective the first half of the year and we are generally behind on the scoreboard, both of which cause you to pass more. 

Teams will give a boatload to move up for a QB because you can't win without one.  Get your QB, and then build around him.  Otherwise, you're going to give up a boatload to move up and get one in a couple of years.  

AD is signed through 2020. He has 2020 cap hit of 17.7 million, none guaranteed other than a $200K workout bonus if he trains in the off season with team

It is a very good deal for a NFL starter which should help his trade value in 2020 prior to or after he draft

[Luvnit2]

(12-25-2019, 10:09 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Honestly? No. It’s going to take a complete offensive overhaul for any quarterback to be successful in Cincinnati.

I wish the offense was the only issue. We are nowhere close to a top 5 or 10 defense either

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-25-2019, 07:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree, Average Andy isn't the main issue, but he's shown time and again that he doesn't have the ability to "kick it up" and carry the team through hard adversity, like the great ones do.  Playoff games, prime time games, late season games versus quality teams have all been for the most part, disappointing, with Andy as the QB.

As long as we're rebuilding the team, I'd prefer that they do it around a rookie QB with a really high ceiling, like Joe Burrow.  The roster of this team definitely needs some help, but it's not so downtrodden that one solid draft, along with a moderate investment in free agency, that they can't put a competitive squad out there.  

More than just player/personnel changes, they need to really rethink the offensive play calling philosophy, and Taylor needs to resign to the fact that he needs a detail oriented taskmaster to assume the role as Defensive Coordinator, and allow him to do his thing.

LMAO....you said investment in FA.

[*jason*]

(12-25-2019, 10:56 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: LMAO....you said investment in FA.

The idea of a solid draft is even kinda funny...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-25-2019, 11:07 PM)jason Wrote: The idea of a solid draft is even kinda funny...

There’s at least precedent for that. I don’t think we’ve ever brought in a top tier FA in the history of the franchise.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-25-2019, 10:56 PM)Wyche Wrote: LMAO....you said investment in FA.

Yeah, I realize that asking a lot of them.  However, we have seen them find players before, when their backs were against the wall.  The year that they brought in Manny Lawson and Thomas Howard comes to mind.

(12-25-2019, 11:07 PM)jason Wrote: The idea of a solid draft is even kinda funny...

It's been a while, but they have had a draft or two, where they hit it on several picks.  The 2011 draft class yielded 3 long term starters, 2010 class was another good one, same as 2012. Like I said, it's been a while, they're due to get one right.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-25-2019, 11:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I realize that asking a lot of them.  However, we have seen them find players before, when their backs were against the wall.  The year that they brought in Manny Lawson and Thomas Howard comes to mind.


It's been a while, but they have had a draft or two, where they hit it on several picks.  The 2011 draft class yielded 3 long term starters, 2010 class was another good one, same as 2012. Like I said, it's been a while, they're due to get one right.

2016 was pretty solid.

WJ3
Boyd
Billings
Vigil

[SunsetBengal]

(12-25-2019, 11:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 2016 was pretty solid.

WJ3
Boyd
Billings
Vigil

As well as 2013

Eifert
Bernard
Williams
Burkhead

[*bfine32*]

This thread is more of the same:

If Andy is surrounded by great players and a great coaching staff he can be pretty good.

LA Rams took a major step back this year especially on offense. Does anyone wonder why.

Andy is journeyman caliber QB that played for a team that enables mediocre.

[Kingslayer]

Not the main problem but not the solution either

[*jason*]

(12-25-2019, 11:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s at least precedent for that. I don’t think we’ve ever brought in a top tier FA in the history of the franchise.

Nope... The biggest was probably an all time great WR past his prime. Then there was Lavernius Coles (also past his prime), and a guy I wanted to call Lamar Odom til I remembered his name was Antwan. I'll give them this much... Terrance Newman was viewed as being spent, but we got 2 pretty solid seasons outta him.

Now that I think about it, we've brought in several big names (Harrison, Dansby). We just haven't gotten much outta them. Dansby was still playing well when he went to Cleveland, and Harrison rebounded nicely after he left here... Go figure.

[*jason*]

(12-25-2019, 11:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This thread is more of the same:

If Andy is surrounded by great players and a great coaching staff he can be pretty good.

LA Rams took a major step back this year especially on offense. Does anyone wonder why.

Andy is journeyman caliber QB that played for a team that enables mediocre.

How do the Rams tie into all of this again?

[CincinnatiKid]

No playoff wins. He had plenty of chances to carry us and failed each time