A Sleeping Giant

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-31-2019, 12:16 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Burrow looks like a fantastic prospect and I'm thrilled to get him. I just worry the Bengals are going to ruin him. Palmer was amazing at USC in 2002. Had a similar rise like Burrow. We all saw what happened.

Yeah, but Joe’s from Ohio, not Southern California. We build em tough here.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-30-2019, 11:30 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Where did you go to school ? I'm old but if the Bengals played eight games in the first half of the season and none of their opponents that half of the season subtracted the Bengals record just how in the wahoo does that Make a ten game difference? In the second half they would only subtract six games instead of seven. Numbers mean something . Don't abuse them or you will get called out.

Aww, that's cute. You got embarrassed with your question and now you're trying to hide it by trying to insult me.

Those records were the records the teams finished the season with, not the half-season with. As you'd clearly know if you knew math, otherwise how would you get an opponent record of 76-51-1 from a half season? That is obviously a full season amount that anyone could tell from a cursory glance.... if you knew math.

Catmandude: 0
Math: 2

[Joelist]

On defense we can get back to respectability faster by staying in a 4-3. In the 4-3 we need a true, legitimate NFL quality MIKE for the starters at LB and better depth. On the DL we do need more players who especially can seal the edges properly. And in the secondary we need a smart, veteran safety to "set" the defense correctly. And yes that means replacing Shawn Williams.

On offense regardless of what we do at QB the OL needs MAJOR reinforcements. We also need a real, NFL quality speed receiver - Ross needs to go. He makes the occasional big play but overall he is the worst receiver I have seen at route running and playing the ball in the air. Also, we need that NFL caliber speed guy (and who can actually get separation) in the event AJ is hurt again.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-31-2019, 03:59 PM)Joelist Wrote: On defense we can get back to respectability faster by staying in a 4-3. In the 4-3 we need a true, legitimate NFL quality MIKE for the starters at LB and better depth. On the DL we do need more players who especially can seal the edges properly. And in the secondary we need a smart, veteran safety to "set" the defense correctly. And yes that means replacing Shawn Williams.

On offense regardless of what we do at QB the OL needs MAJOR reinforcements. We also need a real, NFL quality speed receiver - Ross needs to go. He makes the occasional big play but overall he is the worst receiver I have seen at route running and playing the ball in the air. Also, we need that NFL caliber speed guy (and who can actually get separation) in the event AJ is hurt again.

Well, we aren't really in a 4-3 defense anymore.  No team really is.  Football is situational and you pretty much match the offensive personnel on the field.

We have plenty of pass rushers (you can debate how good they are) in Hubbard, Dunlap, Lawson and Atkins.  We have some good interior guys in Tuopa, Billings and Atkins.  What holds us back every year is the linebacker play.  I don't care if we run a 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, 6-1 or 1-6, until we find linebackers that can cover, the defense will always struggle against RBs and TEs

[WiregrassBenGal]

Most of the replies to this thread are interesting. Whether anyone thinks the Bengals can do it or not, it's much easier to go from a loser to a winner quickly in football than in other sports, which is part of what makes it so popular. There is the recent example of the Rams, who went from a nothing team to last year's Super Bowl. Even looking at the Bengals, does anyone remember how in 2011 everyone predicted a basement finish and a repeat 4-12 record? Instead, Andy, AJ and a few other scrappers surprised everybody.

[*Awful Llama*]

(12-31-2019, 02:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, but Joe’s from Ohio, not Southern California. We build em tough here.

You mean like Anthony Munoz and Max Montoya?  They might disagree with you.  

[RASCAL]

(12-30-2019, 09:11 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Admittedly, I’m always overly optimistic about every season, but this feels different to me. The biggest question mark being the coaching, however I believe they will and should all return.

I’m curious to know how the defense ranked over the second half of the season or last 3rd of the season because they looked infinitely better than they did in the first half, but I don’t know the numbers.

I think we have real weapons at all the offensive skill positions with a very underrated CJ Uzomah and underused Eifert. I believe Auden Tate will have a breakout year, given the assumed new QB will trust him and not rely too heavily on other (established) receivers.

I think there’s question marks along the Oline, but they’re not as puzzling as the narrative indicates. I’d like to see an upgrade or two, but I think these cast-offs have enough potential to allow most plays to develop.

I’ve always been a fan of and defended Andy. But sometimes it is just the QB and as much as I like Andy, I’m hoping it was just him because that means all the other pieces are good enough for the next QB.

I believe we have an excellent front 7 on defense. I’m a 4-3 guy, mainly because I’m most familiar with it because of this team, however I think they have all the pieces to lean heavily on a 3-4 front as this gets all of their best players on the field at the same time. It would awesome to land a an established play maker at LBer because he’d make this group fierce but I don’t think it’s necessary. I like that kid from Cleveland that hasn’t been re signed yet. I think Evans, Lawson, Pratt and Vigil/Hubbard (I know I know) have the potential to be stout and could use some help but I think the team should focus on a ball hawking super stud Safety (if one’s available). I think this is the missing piece on defense a la Minka Fitzpatrick.

I think Darious Phillips showed enough (4 picks is the 3rd highest) that cutting Dre is worth the risk and savings.

I know people think this team is far-away, but I disagree. Hopefully Zac makes the leap in his second season.

Every year we here the same thing! Just wait till next year!!!   Its all blah blah blah

[*jason*]

(12-31-2019, 06:13 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: You mean like Anthony Munoz and Max Montoya?  They might disagree with you.  

Yes... And I disagree with the assertion that Athens is Ohio as well. Cell service is spotty around there, so it's basically West Virginia. Kinda like how Cincinnati is pretty much Kentucky's hat.

I'm kidding fellas...

[*Nately120*]

(12-31-2019, 02:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, but Joe’s from Ohio, not Southern California. We build em tough here.

He's from Ohio but he chose to be a Saints fan.  That hurts the local boy narrative a bit, but it does speak to his intelligence. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-31-2019, 12:16 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Burrow looks like a fantastic prospect and I'm thrilled to get him. I just worry the Bengals are going to ruin him. Palmer was amazing at USC in 2002. Had a similar rise like Burrow. We all saw what happened.

All very true, but I see more mental toughness with Burrow.

Get a good O-line in front of him and he should be fine, more than fine. But you are correct about the coaches.

Need to see improvement from them in every aspect and not put Burrow in a bad position where he cannot succeed.

(12-31-2019, 02:01 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Yeah, this front office is about as ho-hum as they come. Waiver wire pickups just aren't going to inspire me.

LBer and OL continue to be sore points despite numerous draft picks being spent on them, and with AJ likely gone there's another hole to fill with no one the roster ready to step up. Maybe they'll re-sign Green, but it just seems more likely that someone else with more to offer is going to step up and take AJ.

 

I don't know, with how many games AJ misses due to injury he might not get as big of offers as you think.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-31-2019, 06:18 PM)RASCAL Wrote: Every year we here the same thing! Just wait till next year!!!   Its all blah blah blah

Indeed. The NFL is structured to deal that hope. Higher draft picks and easier schedule for bad teams. Plus free agency.

Some 70% of the league has played in a SB over the past 30 years.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-31-2019, 02:01 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Yeah, this front office is about as ho-hum as they come. Waiver wire pickups just aren't going to inspire me.

LBer and OL continue to be sore points despite numerous draft picks being spent on them, and with AJ likely gone there's another hole to fill with no one the roster ready to step up. Maybe they'll re-sign Green, but it just seems more likely that someone else with more to offer is going to step up and take AJ.

 

I hope AJ is gone...for two reasons. For one, I think he wants top dollar from the Bengals, otherwise he'll sign for less elsewhere. The other reason is that the guy can't stay healthy anymore. We need someone we can rely on if we're going to spend any significant money.

The thing people miss is that when someone like AJ misses all/most of a season, not only do we lose a talented playmaker, we're also wasting a good chunk of cap on someone who isn't contributing. A smart GM wouldn't get sentimental about AJ, he'd just cut ties with the aging/expensive/injury-prone player and distribute that money elsewhere. It's the smart move.

(12-31-2019, 02:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, but Joe’s from Ohio, not Southern California. We build em tough here.

(12-31-2019, 06:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All very true, but I see more mental toughness with Burrow.

Get a good O-line in front of him and he should be fine, more than fine. But you are correct about the coaches.

Need to see improvement from them in every aspect and not put Burrow in a bad position where he cannot succeed.



I don't know, with how many games AJ misses due to injury he might not get as big of offers as you think.

I feel ya on mental toughness and CP being a rich Cali boy. That said, I don't think CP's mental toughness was as big a problem as poor drafting and bad FA moves, or a generally apathetic attitude towards FA in general. We took too long to address the defense, which was poor, and we also let the o-line deteriorate from 2007-2010.

We find a few good players like CP/Chad/Housh/Rudi or Andy/AJ/Dunlap/Geno and then the FO seems to rest on their laurels after that. They don't seize the opportunity. They're a lot like a MLB team in the playoff race that refuses to trade for help at the deadline.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-31-2019, 08:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I hope AJ is gone...for two reasons. For one, I think he wants top dollar from the Bengals, otherwise he'll sign for less elsewhere. The other reason is that the guy can't stay healthy anymore. We need someone we can rely on if we're going to spend any significant money.

The thing people miss is that when someone like AJ misses all/most of a season, not only do we lose a talented playmaker, we're also wasting a good chunk of cap on someone who isn't contributing. A smart GM wouldn't get sentimental about AJ, he'd just cut ties with the aging/expensive/injury-prone player and distribute that money elsewhere. It's the smart move.



I feel ya on mental toughness and CP being a rich Cali boy. That said, I don't think CP's mental toughness was as big a problem as poor drafting and bad FA moves, or a generally apathetic attitude towards FA in general. We took too long to address the defense, which was poor, and we also let the o-line deteriorate from 2007-2010.

We find a few good players like CP/Chad/Housh/Rudi or Andy/AJ/Dunlap/Geno and then the FO seems to rest on their laurels after that. They don't seize the opportunity. They're a lot like a MLB team in the playoff race that refuses to trade for help at the deadline.

Love AJ, but I agree. If we spend money on a big time Receiver he better be healthy and somewhat young. 

Amari Cooper would be a great get if we wanted to spend big money on a Wideout.

So true about the FO and FA moves, we never go that extra mile to put us over the top and that is what kills us in the end.

Need to start acting like we want to win a Superbowl. Not half assing it like we always do in FA.

Cannot do it all in the Draft but Burrow, a fast LB'er that can run sideline to sideline, a good young WR and a playmaking TE
sure would help big time. But we have to get the O-line, namely the RT solidified. Hart is okay but he is an okay back up and
we don't know how good Jonah is going to be yet coming off that injury, have to hedge our bets man.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-31-2019, 06:13 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: You mean like Anthony Munoz and Max Montoya?  They might disagree with you.  

Something tells me those guys probably had pretty different upbringings than a upper middle class white kid...

Anyway, i was only being half serious.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-31-2019, 06:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He's from Ohio but he chose to be a Saints fan.  That hurts the local boy narrative a bit, but it does speak to his intelligence. 

I really don’t care if he grew up a Bengals fan (as long as it wasn’t the Steelers). I just like that’s he’s from Ohio. We’ve produced some damn good players around here.

[BengalChris]

(12-31-2019, 08:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I hope AJ is gone...for two reasons. For one, I think he wants top dollar from the Bengals, otherwise he'll sign for less elsewhere. The other reason is that the guy can't stay healthy anymore. We need someone we can rely on if we're going to spend any significant money.

I don't disagree with you on AJ staying healthy and on the need someone the team can rely on at the WR position. There's currently no #1 WR and that has to hurt the offense. After Boyd there's the reliability goes way down and Boyd is more of a #2 kind of guy.

But, who? I don't see Mike Brown ponying up for a #1 in free agency?

The team will spend the first pick on QB. The 2nd round pick could be a WR or an OT or OG or a LB. There's so many holes.

 

[Shake n Blake]

(01-01-2020, 03:38 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't disagree with you on AJ staying healthy and on the need someone the team can rely on at the WR position. There's currently no #1 WR and that has to hurt the offense. After Boyd there's the reliability goes way down and Boyd is more of a #2 kind of guy.

But, who? I don't see Mike Brown ponying up for a #1 in free agency?

The team will spend the first pick on QB. The 2nd round pick could be a WR or an OT or OG or a LB. There's so many holes.

 

It doesn't have to be a WR. Like you said, there's so many holes. If we spend the money on a LB or an o-linemen, I'd be fine with that. We have some good receivers. We could add a couple more in the draft or an affordable (not cheap) one in free agency.

Our money just needs to be spent on reliable solid players.

[Joelist]

I could say “wait till next year” but that is kind of silly. After all, once your season is over unless you are hoisting the Lombardi what else would you say? Even the losing team in the Super Bowl says “wait till next year”.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-01-2020, 03:38 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't disagree with you on AJ staying healthy and on the need someone the team can rely on at the WR position. There's currently no #1 WR and that has to hurt the offense. After Boyd there's the reliability goes way down and Boyd is more of a #2 kind of guy.

But, who? I don't see Mike Brown ponying up for a #1 in free agency?

The team will spend the first pick on QB. The 2nd round pick could be a WR or an OT or OG or a LB. There's so many holes.

 

No there aren't.

If anything, we are actually more than good enough at many positions.

The problems come from the fact that where we DO have holes, they are gaping and among the worst in the league (oline, LB).

It's why I feel we'll have a much better year next year; coaching (which improved in the second half, significantly), can't be any worse than last year and between draft and FA, I don't see us not filling some holes.

There's no problem in feeling like things may not improve, but do you people really want to hang around, moping about it all offseason?

Just keep even-keel and wait until things actually happen.

[BengalChris]

(01-05-2020, 12:26 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: No there aren't.

If anything, we are actually more than good enough at many positions.

The problems come from the fact that where we DO have holes, they are gaping and among the worst in the league (oline, LB).

It's why I feel we'll have a much better year next year; coaching (which improved in the second half, significantly), can't be any worse than last year and between draft and FA, I don't see us not filling some holes.

There's no problem in feeling like things may not improve, but do you people really want to hang around, moping about it all offseason?

Just keep even-keel and wait until things actually happen.

Well, we don't have long to wait really. Free agency isn't that far away and what they team does there will tell us. They'll actually fill some holes in free agency or they won't.

Putting a rookie QB behind this line, with these LBers on defense and no #1 WR and hope for the best in the remainder of the draft would be a sign of another pathetic year. We've all seen what Mike Brown thinking has done in the past.

Outside of Pratt did any rookie improve as the year went on? Finley? Sample? Anyone?

Get ready for the Hobspin article that states we actually have two 1st round picks because Jonah missed his rookie season as a reason for a weak free agent period. You can predict this team like the turn of a clock.