Stop comparing Joe Burrow to Dalton

[Catmandude123]

(01-02-2020, 03:34 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Whenever I see Burrow scrambling around avoiding the rush and making plays outside of the pocket.. I instantly think boy that looks like Andy Dalton out there.

In your dream world was Burrow throwing it out of bounds??

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2020, 05:33 PM)Synric Wrote: These are not actually scouting the player if you are a doubter bring up one thing you see in Burrows game that makes you say "no hes not worth the #1OA".

After 4 years in college he was the 10th ranked QB in the 14 team SEC.  Then he gets a new offensive coordinator and a couple of better receivers and suddenly he is the greatest college QB in years.

I just question how he could have improved his skills so much in one year after not doing it for 4 years.  I think a lot of his success is based on better receivers and schemes. 

[bengaloo]

Ryan Finley is the same height and at least 10lbs lighter and doesnt have nearly the muscle definition of Burrow and Finley is 2 years older. How is Burrow exactly like Finley? That's a pretty big reach whoever compared Burrow to Finley.

Dalton and Burrow are totally different QBs its just not a good comparison at all. The only reason this is even being talked about is because Walter Football coming into the season had Burrow's closest NFL comparison listed as Dalton and Carr. Walter Football gets more wrong than they get right lol. But this is how lame analogies get started, is by websites like Walter Football. They write little write-ups about hundreds of players every year for entertainment and hits, and they are often pretty off base.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2020, 05:47 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Dalton and Burrow are totally different QBs its just not a good comparison at all. The only reason this is even being talked about is because Walter Football coming into the season had Burrow's closest NFL comparison listed as Dalton and Carr. Walter Football gets more wrong than they get right lol. But this is how lame analogies get started, is by websites like Walter Football. They write little write-ups about hundreds of players every year for entertainment and hits, and they are often pretty off base.

 
Coming into this season there was not a single publication that was singing the praises of Burrow.

[*Synric*]

(01-02-2020, 05:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: After 4 years in college he was the 10th ranked QB in the 14 team SEC.  Then he gets a new offensive coordinator and a couple of better receivers and suddenly he is the greatest college QB in years.

I just question how he could have improved his skills so much in one year after not doing it for 4 years.  I think a lot of his success is based on better receivers and schemes. 

He is at his best off schedule so that negates you're it's the scheme and just because he has good receivers doesnt mean he isn't extremely accurate from the pocket and on the move.

His first year playing he had issues moving to his 2nd read forcing it to the first like most college QBs. This year his is the best QB in college football on his second read and 2nd best behind Justin Fields first read.

He improved as the season went on in 2018 finished the year with 4 really great games and continued it into 2019 where he became a record setting Heisman in the toughest Conference in college football.

Like I said show me something about Burrows game.

[bengaloo]

(01-02-2020, 05:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  
Coming into this season there was not a single publication that was singing the praises of Burrow.

I know. Same with Dalton his Sr year. Heck Dalton wasnt even a projected 1st rounder even after winning the Rose Bowl. Nobody was talking about Dalton as being a once in a decade QB. Dalton wasnt as shoe-in for anything. He did great for us until the team around him wasnt quite as good and then it kind of exposed him as being more of a system guy.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2020, 05:55 PM)Synric Wrote: He is at his best off schedule so that negates you're it's the scheme

No, it does not negate that at all.  The scheme can get the second option open more often also.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-02-2020, 05:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No, it does not negate that at all.  The scheme can get the second option open more often also.

It's not the same thing. He said "off schedule". 

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2020, 05:56 PM)bengaloo Wrote: He did great for us until the team around him wasnt quite as good and then it kind of exposed him as being more of a system guy.

Burrow was the 10th rated QB in the 14 team SEC until he got a new OC and some better receivers.

Doesn't that make him a "system guy" also.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2020, 06:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's not the same thing. He said "off schedule". 

What does "off schedule" mean?  I thought it meant not going to the first option.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2020, 05:55 PM)Synric Wrote: His first year playing he had issues moving to his 2nd read forcing it to the first like most college QBs. This year his is the best QB in college football on his second read and 2nd best behind Justin Fields first read.

Right, because his second read is a better receiver in a better scheme than last year.

[fredtoast]

Here are the two options on Burrow.

1. He played 4 years of major college football working on his game to become an average QB, but then in his fifth year suddenly his skills were off the charts.

2. He played 4 years of major college football working hard on his game to become an average QB, but then in his fifth year he gets a new OC and some great receivers that elevate his numbers.

Which seems more likely?

[bengaloo]

(01-02-2020, 06:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Burrow was the 10th rated QB in the 14 team SEC until he got a new OC and some better receivers.

Doesn't that make him a "system guy" also.

Any player, good or bad will always get better with more reps. The question becomes how high is this person's ceiling? Burrow got a season under his belt, the first one with a lot of reps, worked hard in the offseason and improve dramatically. Urban Myer even said Burrow has the talent to win the heisman when he was at OSU, but Myer has his own style of QBs and Burrow wasnt fitting it at the time. But thats not even what is being discussed here lol. Nobody is saying Dalton is a bad QB, despite 0 playoff wins and a 4-20 record without AJ playing. Its more about how close in style of QB are the two? Its not close. Its just not lol. They are totally different in many ways.

[Catmandude123]

(01-02-2020, 05:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: After 4 years in college he was the 10th ranked QB in the 14 team SEC.  Then he gets a new offensive coordinator and a couple of better receivers and suddenly he is the greatest college QB in years.

I just question how he could have improved his skills so much in one year after not doing it for 4 years.  I think a lot of his success is based on better receivers and schemes. 

All of the offense was there or came in when Burrow did. Because he fits the pro style offense that LSU runs is NOT a reason to not draft him. Tell me how long it has been that an Urban Meyers QB has succeeded in the NFL. BURROW 2020!!!!!

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-02-2020, 06:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What does "off schedule" mean?  I thought it meant not going to the first option.

On schedule is anything that happens during the normal course of a play, whether it be first, second, third, etc option. 

Off schedule is anything that happens that was not a designed part of the play. Receivers being covered and having to scramble to find an open receiver or run, or quick pressure that forces the QB out of the pocket and off his read progressions.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-02-2020, 06:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here are the two options on Burrow.

1.  He played 4 years of major college football working on his game to become an average QB, but then in his fifth year suddenly his skills were off the charts.

2.  He played 4 years of major college football working hard on his game to become an average QB, but then in his fifth year he gets a new OC and some great receivers that elevate his numbers.

Which seems more likely?

That he put in the work and was fortunate enough to have someone that could help with his development, by giving him more responsibility. 

Because that is actually what happened. 

[Catmandude123]

(01-02-2020, 05:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  
Coming into this season there was not a single publication that was singing the praises of Burrow.

So you would rather go to a nearly  two year old predictions on draft day over what you see with your own eyes. Have you ever watched him play or are you just playing your usual devil's advocate game. The sports writers who voted on the Heisman must have changed their minds.

[Fullrock]

(01-02-2020, 06:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: On schedule is anything that happens during the normal course of a play, whether it be first, second, third, etc option. 

Off schedule is anything that happens that was not a designed part of the play. Receivers being covered and having to scramble to find an open receiver or run, or quick pressure that forces the QB out of the pocket and off his read progressions.

The fact that you even had to explain this to him tells you all you need to know LOL.

[*Synric*]

(01-02-2020, 06:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here are the two options on Burrow.

1.  He played 4 years of major college football working on his game to become an average QB, but then in his fifth year suddenly his skills were off the charts.

2.  He played 4 years of major college football working hard on his game to become an average QB, but then in his fifth year he gets a new OC and some great receivers that elevate his numbers.

Which seems more likely?

Excuses Excuses.

Tell me one thing about his play on the field that says don't draft him #10A.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-02-2020, 01:58 PM)Okeana Wrote: So this is something that caught on in the media that for the life of my I simply cannot understand.  A member of these forums posted this on a thread today and I wrote up a short response, but I figured I would bring this into a new thread for a small breakdown of Burrow.


andy dalton - 6'2"
burrow - 6'4"

last year of college stats

Dalton - 2857 yrds - 27 td - 6int - accuracy 68% - yards per attempt 9
Burrow - 5208 - 55 td - 6 int - accuracy 78% - yards per attempt 11

I will do a full breakdown sometime over the next week showing the differences in their running, pocket presence, throwing motion, reads, arm strength.  The two are worlds apart when you actually watch the tape and do research.  I'm not a rah rah QB guy and never have been on these forums,  Lamar Jackson was the only guy I've mocked to the team in the last 5 years.  That said Joe Burrow is on another level than these other guys.

here are a few things to wet your whistle
















article on arm strength

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/lsu-football/joe-burrow-explains-why-urban-meyer-told-him-he-threw-like-a-girl/

What I love about this article is that Burrow doesn't deflect the issue, but worked to improve it.  As he physically matures it will increase further.

Here is an example of arm strength, but feel free to watch the full video to see all aspects of his game.









If I had one concern with Joe Burrow is that he still doesn't have the absolute perfect throwing motion to reach his full arm strength and he sometimes takes to many steps on the release, but these are easy things to fix with coaching because his fundamentals are already so good.  A NFL comparison as far as throwing motions are concerned I would compare him to is Peyton Manning.  Brady is damn near a clone when it comes to body types with the kid, but Brady takes much larger steps and releases like a baseball pitcher.  Joe Burrow typically stands a bit higher and takes a shorter last step, but this may be a result of his willingness to move out of the pocket and/or run.  











If you compare the pass on the burrow video to the last throw shown on the manning video you can see fundamentally how good his motion is, but vertically he doesn't lower enough to get that full engagement of arm strength like manning did.  Burrow's release is super fast and he throws tight spirals with pinpoint accuracy so on the NFL level this will transfer very well.  

Anywho like I said I will do a full write up probably after the combine when we have measurable's and hopefully, he throws at the combine and pro day which will give us even a better look at all his throwing mechanics.

So coming into this year where did you have him?? People that scout for a living did not have him in even 1st round....If you look at combine of Dalton, his arm was NFL caliber and we could bring the rope he threw a few weeks ago to show Andy's arm strength is still good. Besides I'm comparing him to Mannings, Luck , Newton still they were 1st pick in draft not 2md round like Dalton... this kid is more hyped after 1 great season and nothing before that than anyone I can remember.