Smoke Screen?

[SunsetBengal]

(01-17-2020, 05:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Taylor also said he felt really good where the OL was headed and that Jonah essentially gives them two 1st round picks this year.
The conversion to complacency has already begun.

Make that 3 first round picks, because John Ross is heading into his 4th rookie season, you know..

But I agree, the complacency is getting a little redundant.  This business of short changing the OL, and gambling on the younger talent to step up just isn't working.  For example, if Bobby Hart were to ever crack 70 in PFF ratings, it would be a career year for him.  They seem to have found our Center, Jonah should step in at LT.  Now, they need to go get one of the veteran Guards in free agency to put between them, so that we at least have one side of the OL that we can count on.  Then, if one of the younger guys, like Mike Jordan maybe, can step up at RG, at least it will minimize the damages Hart can cause at RT.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-18-2020, 11:08 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I have full faith in Jonah, and yes the line improved somewhat, but anyone who thinks Bobby Hart and John Miller are magically going to turn into really good starters is way too optimistic. The Bengals need another Pro Bowl caliber on the OL aside from potentially Jonah.
Their LG is obviously the worst on the team right now though, so that needs to be the priority, but Hart and/or Miller need replaced too.

With all the needs on this team, Miller is a guy who would be low on the list right now. He was below average, grade wise, this year but he gave up very few pressures (T 8th least among starting Gs that played >50% of max snaps) and he only had 3 penalties all year. 

Hart needs to go though. Geauuuuuxxxxxxxxx

[grampahol]

(01-18-2020, 12:13 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: No need to jump the gun.

Still plenty of medical / psyche eval types of stuff to do on him, plus the fact that life has a way of throwing curve balls.  What if we try to make it official now, then ol' Joe slips in the frozen food section and manages to slice up a bunch of ligaments and nerve endings when crashing through the freezer door and prohibiting a pro football career?  We're out the first overall pick with nothing to show for it.

Oh c'mon.. It'll be something minor like having a major stroke while smoking a cigar. 

[Wes Mantooth]

Nothing is official until we turn in our pick. Even if wanted to "make it official" early we can't. Or if say "we are drafting Joe Burrow" it's irrelevant in relation to potential injuries and being locked in.

It's somewhat similar to Michael Scott declaring bancrupcy. Just because you announce something, even if you yell it or declare it, it doesn't work that way.

Nothing is preventing us from saying anything. Although, why exactly would we? There's no benefit in publically tipping your hand.

If Burrow accidently takes a slap chop to his nuts, while preparing a nice Sunday meal, then turns in agony and knocks over a crockpot full of Kevin's famous chili, then slips and tears every ligament known to man... then we just don't draft him. We can do that regardless of public declarations.

[Sled21]

Not to mention publicly declaring who we are taking early does nothing but help other teams forecasting their pick. Better they don't know for sure and have to work all the scenarios

[SunsetBengal]

(01-18-2020, 12:37 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: With all the needs on this team, Miller is a guy who would be low on the list right now. He was below average, grade wise, this year but he gave up very few pressures (T 8th least among starting Gs that played >50% of max snaps) and he only had 3 penalties all year. 

Hart needs to go though. Geauuuuuxxxxxxxxx

There are 4 Guards rated in the top 71 free agents this season; Brandon Scherf, Joe Thuney, Graham Glassgow, and Connor McGovern.  The Bengals should go after one of them, sign him to a 5 year deal, and put him right between Jonah and Hopkins.

[TKUHL]

(01-17-2020, 04:47 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Can't talk about it/tampering/whatever.

It's why the thing about his father came out, "he said he's happy."

If he comes out and says whatever himself, could be tampering or whatever.

How can he get in trouble for tampering? The college season is over. It’s not like he’s talking about picking up a pro player.

[Schmitbuck]

(01-18-2020, 02:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There are 4 Guards rated in the top 71 free agents this season; Brandon Scherf, Joe Thuney, Graham Glassgow, and Connor McGovern.  The Bengals should go after one of them, sign him to a 5 year deal, and put him right between Jonah and Hopkins.

I'd be happy with any of them probably in that order talent-wise, but I think the better play is to focus on a guy at RG. Scherff & McGovern have been mostly at RG. I think Jordan's best position is LG and you have to hope he takes a big step in his 2nd year. I think his ceiling is much higher in year 2 at LG than Miller at RG.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2020, 12:13 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: No need to jump the gun.

Still plenty of medical / psyche eval types of stuff to do on him, plus the fact that life has a way of throwing curve balls.  What if we try to make it official now, then ol' Joe slips in the frozen food section and manages to slice up a bunch of ligaments and nerve endings when crashing through the freezer door and prohibiting a pro football career?  We're out the first overall pick with nothing to show for it.

Yeah, I was kind of being facetious. Just think Burrow could be the one.

(01-18-2020, 12:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're just a regular Bob Ross with words.  That is some pretty sharp imagery that you've got going there.  

True lol

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2020, 02:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There are 4 Guards rated in the top 71 free agents this season; Brandon Scherf, Joe Thuney, Graham Glassgow, and Connor McGovern.  The Bengals should go after one of them, sign him to a 5 year deal, and put him right between Jonah and Hopkins.

Sounds great to me.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-18-2020, 03:12 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I'd be happy with any of them probably in that order talent-wise, but I think the better play is to focus on a guy at RG. Scherff & McGovern have been mostly at RG. I think Jordan's best position is LG and you have to hope he takes a big step in his 2nd year. I think his ceiling is much higher in year 2 at LG than Miller at RG.

Eh, I don't put much stock in the whole "he's a LG or a RG", in this day and age.  Similar to what we're seeing at the Tackle position in the NFL, lineman need to be able to run block or pass protect well on both sides of the OL.

By putting your veteran investment at LG, you have an solid, experienced player next to Jonah, and this makes it easier for Jonah to get up to speed.

[Schmitbuck]

(01-18-2020, 04:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Eh, I don't put much stock in the whole "he's a LG or a RG", in this day and age.  Similar to what we're seeing at the Tackle position in the NFL, lineman need to be able to run block or pass protect well on both sides of the OL.

By putting your veteran investment at LG, you have an solid, experienced player next to Jonah, and this makes it easier for Jonah to get up to speed.

Not trying to be confrontational, but what are we seeing at the tackle position? Moving guys back and forth from one side of line to the other certainly isn't ideal. Everything is backwards. I'd imagine switching your stance, punch hand, and your first step is a big deal to someone who has only played one side, like Jordan. Again this all depends on if the Bengals think he can be a good starter, but switching him to the other side would hinder his learning curve. 

And I think putting a veteran investment next to Bobby Hart or Fred Johnson or some 2nd/3rd rounder would be just as beneficial to that guy. You may be overvaluing the benefit to Jonah for the totality of the group. 

But regardless, I'd be thrilled if the Bengals actually spent money to bring any of those guards.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-18-2020, 06:46 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Not trying to be confrontational, but what are we seeing at the tackle position? Moving guys back and forth from one side of line to the other certainly isn't ideal. Everything is backwards. I'd imagine switching your stance, punch hand, and your first step is a big deal to someone who has only played one side, like Jordan. Again this all depends on if the Bengals think he can be a good starter, but switching him to the other side would hinder his learning curve. 

And I think putting a veteran investment next to Bobby Hart or Fred Johnson or some 2nd/3rd rounder would be just as beneficial to that guy. You may be overvaluing the benefit to Jonah for the totality of the group. 

But regardless, I'd be thrilled if the Bengals actually spent money to bring any of those guards.

Traditionally, the speed rusher was lined up over the LT, and the bulkier, run stopping DE was lined up over the RT/TE side.  Now, teams are moving the speed rusher to either side of the line, in order to exploit the perceived better matchup.  This is forcing teams use Tackles with better footwork on the Right side as well as the Left, rather than "hiding" the flat footed run blocking specialist at RT.

As for playing on one side or the other causing problems with stance or first step?  I can't really support that, as I played both Left and Right sides of the line, on both offense and defense in my playing days, and I never really had any issues.  These are professional athletes that we're talking about here, not developmental school boys that might get flustered by having to push off on one foot over the one their used to.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2020, 12:37 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: With all the needs on this team, Miller is a guy who would be low on the list right now. He was below average, grade wise, this year but he gave up very few pressures (T 8th least among starting Gs that played >50% of max snaps) and he only had 3 penalties all year. 

Hart needs to go though. Geauuuuuxxxxxxxxx

I agree.

I'd look for a proven LG in FA, draft a RT to compete with Hart, and look to replace Miller in 2021.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2020, 07:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Traditionally, the speed rusher was lined up over the LT, and the bulkier, run stopping DE was lined up over the RT/TE side.  Now, teams are moving the speed rusher to either side of the line, in order to exploit the perceived better matchup.  This is forcing teams use Tackles with better footwork on the Right side as well as the Left, rather than "hiding" the flat footed run blocking specialist at RT.

As for playing on one side or the other causing problems with stance or first step?  I can't really support that, as I played both Left and Right sides of the line, on both offense and defense in my playing days, and I never really had any issues.  These are professional athletes that we're talking about here, not developmental school boys that might get flustered by having to push off on one foot over the one their used to.

Nice post Sunset, completely understand I just find it strange that players like Westerman could never play both sides or Glenn.

(01-18-2020, 07:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree.

I'd look for a proven LG in FA, draft a RT to compete with Hart, and look to replace Miller in 2021.

Good plan. Would rather have Conklin as an immediate upgrade but the guy will be spendy even though we could afford him.

Sherff I heard we are interested in. Would love this as well in FA.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2020, 08:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post Sunset, completely understand I just find it strange that players like Westerman could never play both sides or Glenn.



Good plan. Would rather have Conklin as an immediate upgrade but the guy will be spendy even though we could afford him.

Sherff I heard we are interested in. Would love this as well in FA.

You did? Source?
I'd be happy with that addition.
I could definitely see that move too if Callahan is added to the Bengals staff.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-18-2020, 01:29 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Nothing is official until we turn in our pick. Even if wanted to "make it official" early we can't. Or if say "we are drafting Joe Burrow" it's irrelevant in relation to potential injuries and being locked in.

It's somewhat similar to Michael Scott declaring bancrupcy. Just because you announce something, even if you yell it or declare it, it doesn't work that way.

Nothing is preventing us from saying anything. Although, why exactly would we? There's no benefit in publically tipping your hand.

If Burrow accidently takes a slap chop to his nuts, while preparing a nice Sunday meal, then turns in agony and knocks over a crockpot full of Kevin's famous chili, then slips and tears every ligament known to man... then we just don't draft him. We can do that regardless of public declarations.

Not true.  They can sign him to a contract prior to the draft.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-18-2020, 02:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There are 4 Guards rated in the top 71 free agents this season; Brandon Scherf, Joe Thuney, Graham Glassgow, and Connor McGovern.  The Bengals should go after one of them, sign him to a 5 year deal, and put him right between Jonah and Hopkins.

If i had the choice, i'd probably rather go after someone like Conklin at the T and go G in the draft. 

[SunsetBengal]

(01-18-2020, 11:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If i had the choice, i'd probably rather go after someone like Conklin at the T and go G in the draft. 

Having the Tackle would be nice, but did you forget which division we play in?  Both the Ravens and Steelers like to bring pressure up the middle of the line, and blow up the pocket.  The time honored and true way to build an OL is from the inside out.  I'd rather see them spend real money on a bona fide veteran Guard, as I have a strong feeling that Fred Johnson will be making a major push for reps at RT next season.  This draft appears to have plenty of capable Tackles, draft one and allow him to develop.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2020, 09:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You did? Source?
I'd be happy with that addition.
I could definitely see that move too if Callahan is added to the Bengals staff.

I heard it in another thread. Won't say any names right now, will go back and look after the games today.

Scherff would be an awesome addition IMO.

Bill too, yeah, I would be happy.