Duke Tobin ???

[kevin]

I went on Bengals.com only to find stories of Duke Tobin at the Senior Bowl. My mood was Hopeful, but. We do know most teams would have fired him considering how bad team has been last 4 years, don't we ???

I'm excited about the top picks and the rebuild until I hear names like Duke Tobin, Paul Brown Junior, Katey Brown Blackburn and Mike Brown. My excitement for some change turns to Same Old, Same Old.

I have doubts on Duke Tobin and his ability to judge talent at the Senior Bowl or the Skyline Chili Bowl. Again, I think most teams would have fired him. Thing is, he doesn't have job title of GM. People may act like he does. It's like somebody on a regular job as acting manager or temporary manager, and it's not the same as being paid and having paperwork saying you are the manager. Oh, you get the tasks, just not the pay. So Duke Tobin comes to Mike Brown on the cheap happy to be paid as whatever, but not as a GM. Cheap is probably why Mike still has him.

Burrow and some new players would be exciting. The same old system is not, and why I don't care if players fit this system. I don't think Mike Brown & Tobin system gets most out of any players. So as I read about Duke Tobin at Senior Bowl, it's like a punch in the gut. A slap in the face of a reminder of this last place front office. No play-off wins under Mike Brown and more 0-4 starts than any NFL team. Under Mike we have had Boomer, Blake, Kitna, Carson, Dalton and now maybe Burrow, so it appears changing QB alone is NOT enough. This front office needs to change more than QB. Do they really want to WIN ? Are they willing to make Front Office and attitude changes for a Focus On Winning ? Only Mike Brown & Co. can answer that.

[CJD]

It's so odd because as late as 5 years ago, people were calling Duke Tobin a drafting genius. He is attributed with finding players like Peko, Marv Jones, Geno Atkins and George Iloka in the later rounds while not bombing his first and second round picks.

I remember being low key scared that someone would take him away from us by giving him that coveted GM title.

Even as recently as 2016 he was generally well regarded among Bengals fans, albeit with a few notable misses on his resume (Ogbuehi, Hill, Hunt).

It's really been the last three years that the fan base has soured on him. And you can't blame them for that. The 2015 draft, which initially looked pretty good, yielded absolutely nothing of value, other than a back up TE that we overpaid to keep. The 2017 draft was headed by one of the most frustrating picks in recent memory in John Ross and in 2018 and 2019, the debacles or Billy Price, Malik Jefferson, Drew Sample and Ryan Finley really made him look foolish.

I hope 2020 is the beginning of him reclaiming his former role of "draft genius." Finding another Geno Atkins level player in the 4th round would help his cause in that regard.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Yes, they have had a lot of misses as of late no question. If this doesn't improve we should move on.

But one thing I have to ask, is it all on Tobin or a combination of missing on picks and coaching not being able to coach up the players? I remember seeing our Draft last year and I really liked it at the time. Especially the Jonah and Pratt picks, then Jonah gets hurt and Pratt took awhile to get significant snaps, but he finally came around late. I think it is a combination of things. We need to hit on some picks and coach up the players better.

Also use them to their strengths and not try to fit square pegs into round holes.

[JWW1971]

I think we are going to find that Duke will be here as long as the Brown's own the team

[SunsetBengal]

(01-22-2020, 07:20 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: I think we are going to find that Duke will be here as long as the Brown's own the team

Eh, maybe..  Seems to me, I remember PLENTY of fans who thought the same thing about Marvin Lewis.

[pdub2005]

Anyone else always find it kinda petty or silly that Mike Brown never gave Tobin the title of GM. I mean everyone around the league refers to him as 'the Bengals defacto GM.' Granted his early round picks haven't gone so well lately, but Mike Brown's inability to give anyone that title is confounding. Seems like an ego thing. He is willing to give power to certain people, but wants appearances to be that there is no one in charge but him.

[*Nately120*]

(01-22-2020, 07:43 PM)pdub2005 Wrote: Anyone else always find it kinda petty or silly that Mike Brown never gave Tobin the title of GM. I mean everyone around the league refers to him as 'the Bengals defacto GM.' Granted his early round picks haven't gone so well lately, but Mike Brown's inability to give anyone that title is confounding. Seems like an ego thing. He is willing to give power to certain people, but wants appearances to be that there is no one in charge but him.

Makes you wonder if we might attract a better GM if MB didn't insist he was GM for life. 

[Clark W Griswold]

With as much say so as MB has and how much input the coaches have you wonder how much of this is on him? Who wanted and OK’d taking Ross/Ced O etc? He’s not the GM because he doesn’t have the power to build the roster and make the final draft and personnel decisions. I think that’s why MB won’t give out that title. He’s the GM because he has the final say in the draft room. The coaches have a lot of input as well so I think Duke has less power than any other GM/head personnel guy in the league.

I just hope they can get lucky with a few good drafts and rebuild this team.

[Bengalitis]

I thought it was Marvin and his staff to picked the players and MB just approve or negated.

[JSR18]

(01-22-2020, 07:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Makes you wonder if we might attract a better GM if MB didn't insist he was GM for life. 

I think the "GM for life" is Duke. He came here in a package deal with his Dad. Bill Tobin of Buffalo, Indianapolis GM fame. Was a Bengal's consultant for a few years.

Bill Tobin and Mike Brown are close friends. Ergo, Billy's little boy Dukie (pun intended) has a job for life... 

[Bengal Dude]

I very well could see Tobin getting the GM title if/when Mike Brown hands control over to Katie. 

I know Tobin and Marvin seemed like buddies, but I think their relationship started to strain as Tobin got more power. I know they butted heads over the John Ross pick, and I'm wondering if they differed on other picks.

[J24]

(01-23-2020, 02:07 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I very well could see Tobin getting the GM title if/when Mike Brown hands control over to Katie. 

I know Tobin and Marvin seemed like buddies, but I think their relationship started to strain as Tobin got more power. I know they butted heads over the John Ross pick, and I'm wondering if they differed on other picks.

That and the loss of Whit; I think Marv just checked out after that.

[Okeana]

You simply cannot have a team that builds around the draft and then draft utter garbage every year. I think they could bring in PFF to handle their draft and they would get better results overall.

[3wt]

My concern is that Duke appears to be satisfied with standing pat with our current O-line, specifically mentioning Johnson, Dugas and Prince.

I will say that Hart played pretty well towards the end of the season - but not at a really high level, and Johnson had some good reps as well.

But if you're drafting a franchise QB, you want to support him with more than OK players or possibly ascending players. You're either going to have to draft them or get them in FA.

But we cannot afford to stand pat. There needs to be an upgrade - if for no other reason than a guarantee of quality and the guarantee of quality depth.

Makes me nervous he does

[BenZoo2]

I hope the bengals see what happened with Andrew luck and take the steps necessary to building a quality Nfl line. I’d be a waste to take burrow at 1 and not protect the investment


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[Pat5775]

(01-22-2020, 07:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Eh, maybe..  Seems to me, I remember PLENTY of fans who thought the same thing about Marvin Lewis.

If they fired Paul Alexander, then they will fire anybody.

[lone bengal]

(01-23-2020, 11:55 AM)3wt Wrote: My concern is that Duke appears to be satisfied with standing pat with our current O-line, specifically mentioning Johnson, Dugas and Prince.

I will say that Hart played pretty well towards the end of the season - but not at a really high level, and Johnson had some good reps as well.

But if you're drafting a franchise QB, you want to support him with more than OK players or possibly ascending players. You're either going to have to draft them or get them in FA.

But we cannot afford to stand pat. There needs to be an upgrade - if for no other reason than a guarantee of quality and the guarantee of quality depth.

Makes me nervous he does

Agree 100% those quotes sounds like typical Bengals propaganda and reasons not to utilize free agency. They will settle for below average play with cheap contracts instead of looking for major upgrades. Tobin also said “ We'd like to sell more tickets," he said. "You need to win to make that happen. We didn't win and that's just the results of a poor season or multiple poor seasons. That's life in the NFL, especially in a market like Cincinnati. He sounds like Mike Brown making it seem like it’s tough to survive in a small market. This team hasn’t won a playoff game in 30 years or under your tenure as GM. We had cap space and signed B.W. Webb , Wynn and John Miller last offseason. The fans will buy tickets when you put a winner on the field and show your serious about winning. Stop worrying about ticket sales Duke and focus on the draft and free agency.

[*Nately120*]

(01-23-2020, 01:57 AM)JSR18 Wrote:   I think the "GM for life" is Duke. He came here in a package deal with his Dad. Bill Tobin of Buffalo, Indianapolis GM fame. Was a Bengal's consultant for a few years.

Bill Tobin and Mike Brown are close friends. Ergo, Billy's little boy Dukie (pun intended) has a job for life... 

So Duke is the GM but the title and salary and final say go to the owner?  Seems like a great way to attract the top talent for the GM but not GM job.

[JSR18]

(01-23-2020, 12:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So Duke is the GM but the title and salary and final say go to the owner?  Seems like a great way to attract the top talent for the GM but not GM job.

Par for the course with this Front Office... 

[CornerBlitz]

I was the biggest fan of Tobin but he's clearly not had a good few years. At this point, I just hope Burrow comes in and tears it up because he's our only hope.