Duke Tobin on why the Bengals didn't trade veteran players

[*ochocincos*]

(01-23-2020, 02:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What were we offered for Green?

I don't think any team would have given us anything for him because he was not able to play.

I don't know for sure, but you don't know either.
What I recall is hearing there was interest in AJ Green in the month(s) leading up to the trade deadline, so I have to assume there was at least some offer. I'd expect it would have been a 3rd rounder or lower given the injury. Mike Brown could have viewed that as too low, as trading AJ would have removed the ability for the Bengals to franchise tag him.

[*Nately120*]

How many of these "best players" are going to be here in 2020? We didn't trade Dalton or Green or Eifert, so I assume we're going to roll with them in 2020 and onward since they're too good to even imagine trading.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-23-2020, 04:38 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How many of these "best players" are going to be here in 2020?  We didn't trade Dalton or Green or Eifert, so I assume we're going to roll with them in 2020 and onward since they're too good to even imagine trading.

Who said they were too good for trading? I wouldn't have given them away for peanuts either. If the right offer comes, they will be traded.

[XenoMorph]

(01-23-2020, 04:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't know for sure, but you don't know either.
What I recall is hearing there was interest in AJ Green in the month(s) leading up to the trade deadline, so I have to assume there was at least some offer. I'd expect it would have been a 3rd rounder or lower given the injury. Mike Brown could have viewed that as too low, as trading AJ would have removed the ability for the Bengals to franchise tag him.

who trades for an injured player on the last year of his deal.. so basically renting a player that cant play for that year.


Basically no body.

[SadFaceBengal15]

How does this idiot still have a job for Christ sake

[lone bengal]

Part of the 2011-2015 run was built off trading veteran players for picks. Keith Rivers traded to the Giants for a 5th round pick ended up drafting George Iloka. Chad Johnson traded to the Patriots for a 5th round pick ended up drafting Marvin Jones with that pick. We traded Palmer for a 1st and 2nd. We drafted Kirkpatrick in round one which gave us the luxury to a draft Zeitler later in the first round. We used the second round pick to draft Bernard. I understand teams in the NFL go from bad teams to playoff teams with in a year but those teams also use free agency and make aggressive moves which speeds up the process. The 49ers Traded for Jimmy G , Sanders , Laken Tomlinson. They signed Richard Sherman , Kwon Alexander , Dee Ford , Weston Richburg , Telvin Coleman and others to make the turnaround quicker. The Bengals standing pat and signing guys like B.W Webb and company won’t make a quick turnaround likely.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-23-2020, 05:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Who said they were too good for trading? I wouldn't have given them away for peanuts either. If the right offer comes, they will be traded.

Damn rights Mike.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-23-2020, 01:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Pretty bad logic IMO. Why doesn't he ask the 49ers how their turnaround went?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/duke-tobin-explains-why-bengals-didnt-host-fire-sale-at-trade-deadline/ar-BBZfRQy?ocid=spartandhp

“We are not trying to get better by losing our best players. In our opinion, that’s not the path forward. Lose your best players, how do you get better by doing that? We have guys who clearly some teams were interested in. Well guess what? We are interested in having them, too. They are good players. We weren’t good enough as a football team. Now if we’re going to lose players, how does that improve us? I don’t think any of those (veterans) are done. We think all those guys have life in their NFL career and are going to be a part of our turnaround as we go.”

I'm confused. Does Tobin not realize that when you TRADE players you get something back as well? That you're not just GIVING the players to other teams? 

I get it. Generally, an established veteran will be a better player than a rookie, but it's not just about making the team better NOW. It's about making the team BETTER. 

[*Nately120*]

(01-23-2020, 05:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Who said they were too good for trading? I wouldn't have given them away for peanuts either. If the right offer comes, they will be traded.

Duke said you don't get better trading your best players.  You have to wonder who could really be untouchable on a team that went 2-14 and hasn't had a winning season since 2015, though.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-23-2020, 07:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Duke said you don't get better trading your best players.  You have to wonder who could really be untouchable on a team that went 2-14 and hasn't had a winning season since 2015, though.  

Ok,
This guy can't win with anyone, if he traded a player or two, people would be complaining we gave them away.

To me, this team has some talented players at certain positions, but the holes are really killing them (MLB). If they can get the holes plugged adequately, then we can be competitive easily.

Same with OL, get the holes plugged adequately, and we're back in business.

Obviously AD can be traded, he is not going to be a part of our future, since we will draft JB. But others should stick around. So this team isn't so far away that we need a complete overhaul, we just need to dip into FA's this year and find a few good fillers instead of waiting for them to fall to us in the draft.

Now name me a team in the NFL that trades away it's BEST players (more than one, teams can handle losing one player) and is better the next year?

[BengalsRocker]

Tobin would've been fired anywhere else.

No you don't give your players away for peanuts.

Yet you do have to realize the reality of their worth and when to trade when the demand is there.

Letting go of certain players are not always in alignment when you are done with them.

You gotta know when to pull the trigger and not ride their worth into the ground.

Otherwise you cut them and get zilch.

Using smarts and skills is the requirement for a good "GM".

I'm just not seeing good personnel decisions being made from the front office.

If Burrow wasn't falling into their lap because of a very very bad season(possibly even a terrible HC hire)this think-tank would have nothing to show for going into 2020.

[*Nately120*]

(01-23-2020, 08:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ok,
This guy can't win with anyone, if he traded a player or two, people would be complaining we gave them away.

To me, this team has some talented players at certain positions, but the holes are really killing them (MLB). If they can get the holes plugged adequately, then we can be competitive easily.

Same with OL, get the holes plugged adequately, and we're back in business.

Obviously AD can be traded, he is not going to be a part of our future, since we will draft JB. But others should stick around. So this team isn't so far away that we need a complete overhaul, we just need to dip into FA's this year and find a few good fillers instead of waiting for them to fall to us in the draft.

Now name me a team in the NFL that trades away it's BEST players (more than one, teams can handle losing one player) and is better the next year?

It's more about Duke and MB responding to questions about trades as if the concept is crazy.   It's even more worthy of an eye roll consider how often they talk about building through the draft. 

But it doesn't matter because any picks we get are all going to be used on Drew Samples and Ryan Finleys.  I wish Duke would say that.  You want us to have more picks?  We will just blow em.  That I'd accept. 

[BengalsRocker]

(01-23-2020, 08:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's more about Duke and MB responding to questions about trades as if the concept is crazy.   It's even more worthy of an eye roll consider how often they talk about building through the draft. 

But it doesn't matter because any picks we get are all going to be used on Drew Samples and Ryan Finleys.  I wish Duke would say that.  You want us to have more picks?  We will just blow em.  That I'd accept. 

They had no problem trading Ochocinco for a 5th and 6th the following year.

I guess they forgot.

[bengals1969]

(01-23-2020, 01:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Pretty bad logic IMO. Why doesn't he ask the 49ers how their turnaround went?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/duke-tobin-explains-why-bengals-didnt-host-fire-sale-at-trade-deadline/ar-BBZfRQy?ocid=spartandhp

“We are not trying to get better by losing our best players. In our opinion, that’s not the path forward. Lose your best players, how do you get better by doing that? We have guys who clearly some teams were interested in. Well guess what? We are interested in having them, too. They are good players. We weren’t good enough as a football team. Now if we’re going to lose players, how does that improve us? I don’t think any of those (veterans) are done. We think all those guys have life in their NFL career and are going to be a part of our turnaround as we go.”

Those valuable players had won 0 or 1 game by the trading deadline.  His logic is baffling except for one angle.  Trade Atkins and the draft pick(s) won't be as good for a year or more, best case.  Same for Red or Dunlop.  They think the "turnaround" is right around the corner so no need to wait for all those draft picks to become stars.  Of course the Bengals haven't had a draft pick become a star since AJ Green, almost 10 years ago.
But Tobin's got to dream.

[*Nately120*]

(01-23-2020, 08:27 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: They had no problem trading Ochocinco for a 5th and 6th the following year.

I guess they forgot.

You don't get better trading your best players, now let's talk about how we traded Palmer and Chad and then made the playoffs 5 years in a row. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-23-2020, 08:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ok,
This guy can't win with anyone, if he traded a player or two, people would be complaining we gave them away.

To me, this team has some talented players at certain positions, but the holes are really killing them (MLB). If they can get the holes plugged adequately, then we can be competitive easily.

Same with OL, get the holes plugged adequately, and we're back in business.

Obviously AD can be traded, he is not going to be a part of our future, since we will draft JB. But others should stick around. So this team isn't so far away that we need a complete overhaul, we just need to dip into FA's this year and find a few good fillers instead of waiting for them to fall to us in the draft.

Now name me a team in the NFL that trades away it's BEST players (more than one, teams can handle losing one player) and is better the next year?

I agree for the most part, but Duke said some dumb things here, not what I would like to hear from him to give me confidence.

(01-23-2020, 08:21 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Tobin would've been fired anywhere else.

No you don't give your players away for peanuts.

Yet you do have to realize the reality of their worth and when to trade when the demand is there.

Letting go of certain players are not always in alignment when you are done with them.

You gotta know when to pull the trigger and not ride their worth into the ground.

Otherwise you cut them and get zilch.

Using smarts and skills is the requirement for a good "GM".

I'm just not seeing good personnel decisions being made from the front office.

If Burrow wasn't falling into their lap because of a very very bad season(possibly even a terrible HC hire)this think-tank would have nothing to show for going into 2020.

Where was the demand though? Still waiting to hear where the demand was, it is all rumors from what I have heard.

(01-23-2020, 08:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's more about Duke and MB responding to questions about trades as if the concept is crazy.   It's even more worthy of an eye roll consider how often they talk about building through the draft. 

But it doesn't matter because any picks we get are all going to be used on Drew Samples and Ryan Finleys.  I wish Duke would say that.  You want us to have more picks?  We will just blow em.  That I'd accept. 

Not even realistic.

But yeah, they have made a lot of terrible picks lately and yet...

Some are wanting to trade Joe Burrow away for more terrible picks LMAO!!!

[WhodeyRay]

(01-23-2020, 02:41 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: People do realize that when you trade a player their money comes off the books, right?

It's not as simple as saying, "There's no way we improve by replacing Geno Atkins wity a 3rd or 4th round pick.". You have the pick + the cap space.

Geno Atkins vs. a 3rd rounder + 12 mil to spend in FA is an entirely different discussion than simply Geno Atkins vs. a 3rd rounder.

You lose some of your better players but you'll also gain the ability to sign better players, in addition to young draft prospects.

We can all argue about the demand and compensation until the cows come home, but don't gloss over the fact that the above is true.

Thank god someone on here that sees the big picture. You can take the money from 1 old guy making big money with only a couple years left to play amd declining and spend it on a couple players that are younger and fill needs for 4-5 years. If only we would use that wacky thing called free agency.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-23-2020, 10:59 PM)WhodeyRay Wrote: Thank god someone on here that sees the big picture. You can take the money from 1 old guy making big money with only a couple years left to play amd declining and spend it on a couple players that are younger and fill needs for 4-5 years. If only we would use that wacky thing called free agency.

All true, just still waiting on this proven trade offer that some are saying happened either for AJ or Geno...

[yellowxdiscipline]

(01-23-2020, 02:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What were we offered for Green?

I don't think any team would have given us anything for him because he was not able to play.

[jj22]

If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't be the Bengals (pre and post Marvin).

So let's give our 30+ players whose been apart of this downward spiral a 4th contract. That seems like the winning formula (says no one outside of Paul Brown Stadium).

Burrow doesn't have a chance guys.