A J Green and Antonio Bryant

[fredtoast]

I don't know how many of you remember us signing Antonio Bryant to a 4 year $28 million dollar deal after the '09 season, but it was considered a pretty big deal back then.  Based on percentage of salary cap that deal would be for well over $10 million per year today.

Bryant had been injured early in the 2009 season, but returned to play the final 7 games.  He looked good at times after his return.  Despite playing with the worst QBs in the league (combined rating of 59.8) he had 113 yards against Caroline and 91 against the Falcons.

he passed a physical before the Bengals gave him that big deal, but he never played for them.  He claimed a degenerative condition in his repaired knee made it impossible for him to play.  It is possible that he re-injured the knee after he passed the physical or perhaps if the inflammation was down the knee looked okay.  I don't know exactly what happened, but this reminds me a lot of what Green went through.  People claimed AJ looked good doing workouts, but there was still swelling and pain afterward.  Maybe Bryant was going through the same thing the end of the '09 season.  He was able to play on Sunday, but then would have pain and swelling through the week.

I would not trust re-signing Green even if he does pass a physical.  Sometimes injuries just don't heal properly.  Just ask Andrew Luck.

[*michaelsean*]

I think a one year "prove it" deal would be fair. Even a fairly high salary would be fine, but I wouldn't want to get stuck for three years and eat a large signing bonus.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-27-2020, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know how many of you remember us signing Antonio Bryant to a 4 year $28 million dollar deal after the '09 season, but it was considered a pretty big deal back then.  Based on percentage of salary cap that deal would be for well over $10 million per year today.

Bryant had been injured early in the 2009 season, but returned to play the final 7 games.  He looked good at times after his return.  Despite playing with the worst QBs in the league (combined rating of 59.8) he had 113 yards against Caroline and 91 against the Falcons.

he passed a physical before the Bengals gave him that big deal, but he never played for them.  He claimed a degenerative condition in his repaired knee made it impossible for him to play.  It is possible that he re-injured the knee after he passed the physical or perhaps if the inflammation was down the knee looked okay.  I don't know exactly what happened, but this reminds me a lot of what Green went through.  People claimed AJ looked good doing workouts, but there was still swelling and pain afterward.  Maybe Bryant was going through the same thing the end of the '09 season.  He was able to play on Sunday, but then would have pain and swelling through the week.

I would not trust re-signing Green even if he does pass a physical.  Sometimes injuries just don't heal properly.  Just ask Andrew Luck.

What about Klaus?

[*bengalfan74*]

I agree mostly, I'm very leery of AJ and his recent injury history.

I don't claim to be any kind of an NFL contract expert but there's no way I want to spend 18 million to franchise him. Or even any kind of a long term contract.

Like Michael says a one year prove it deal is only thing I'd be comfortable with. Say 9 million with incentives that would add up to 15 million or so if he meets them.

I feel anything more is just to big a risk.

[*Nately120*]

(01-27-2020, 12:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think a one year "prove it" deal would be fair. Even a fairly high salary would be fine, but I wouldn't want to get stuck for three years and eat a large signing bonus.

True, but he's probably rather take a 1 year deal elsewhere which is why it seems like he's going to get tagged before he can even try it. 18 million is too much for a year of AJ given his recent issues, and that is why tagging him would look like a spiteful power play by MB.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-27-2020, 01:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True, but he's probably rather take a 1 year deal elsewhere which is why it seems like he's going to get tagged before he can even try it.

I've said all along that despite the wanna be Fitzgerald talk, wanna stay on one team entire career. There will probably be a team out there offer a 3 year fairly high dollar contract and he'll probably take it. 

[*Nately120*]

(01-27-2020, 01:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've said all along that despite the wanna be Fitzgerald talk, wanna stay on one team entire career. There will probably be a team out there offer a 3 year fairly high dollar contract and he'll probably take it. 

True, but players don't even leave the Bengals on good terms much less stay here forever.  LF is an absurd case but the Cardinals at least have a ring of honor and do other "pat on the back" stuff for players that MB doesn't.  Being loyal to the Bengals is a Herculean feat I don't even think Larry Legend could pull off. 

[bengals67]

(01-27-2020, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know how many of you remember us signing Antonio Bryant to a 4 year $28 million dollar deal after the '09 season, but it was considered a pretty big deal back then.  Based on percentage of salary cap that deal would be for well over $10 million per year today.

Bryant had been injured early in the 2009 season, but returned to play the final 7 games.  He looked good at times after his return.  Despite playing with the worst QBs in the league (combined rating of 59.8) he had 113 yards against Caroline and 91 against the Falcons.

he passed a physical before the Bengals gave him that big deal, but he never played for them.  He claimed a degenerative condition in his repaired knee made it impossible for him to play.  It is possible that he re-injured the knee after he passed the physical or perhaps if the inflammation was down the knee looked okay.  I don't know exactly what happened, but this reminds me a lot of what Green went through.  People claimed AJ looked good doing workouts, but there was still swelling and pain afterward.  Maybe Bryant was going through the same thing the end of the '09 season.  He was able to play on Sunday, but then would have pain and swelling through the week.

I would not trust re-signing Green even if he does pass a physical.  Sometimes injuries just don't heal properly.  Just ask Andrew Luck.

Totally agree as much as I admire AJ.

There are much bigger needs on team at o line and LBs. 

The Brown family is totally nuts if they draft Burrow and don't address the other major problems.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-27-2020, 01:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True, but players don't even leave the Bengals on good terms much less stay here forever.  LF is an absurd case but the Cardinals at least have a ring of honor and do other "pat on the back" stuff for players that MB doesn't.  Being loyal to the Bengals is a Herculean feat I don't even think Larry Legend could pull off. 

Oh I wouldn't fault him at all for taking it. In fact that's probably his best chance at some post season success and I hope he gets it !

Now in the same breath would I like to see him stay and help Burrow ? Sure, if he can stay on the field.

I just think it's to big a risk (with all the other needs we have) to throw any big money at him, except for a prove it kinda deal. And if he earns it then we'll likely have had a good season, so be it 

[bengaloo]

The difference I see is that Bryant had a more serious injury and they really didnt even see him run at all before they signed him, which is why it was so weird when he couldnt even run in his first practice. He was an outsider who didnt even work out for us before we signed him. It was a stupid signing because of that. Green's injury wasnt as serious, and he has been running and practicing for a good while. People watching has said he looked great running, but the season was shot and he wasnt coming back even though he was probably 98% recovered. Different people, different situation, different injuries. Just not a good comparison imo.

If we can get him at 8-9 mil plus incentives, it may be worth it to keep him around. He has a lot of gas left in his tank.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2020, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know how many of you remember us signing Antonio Bryant to a 4 year $28 million dollar deal after the '09 season, but it was considered a pretty big deal back then.  Based on percentage of salary cap that deal would be for well over $10 million per year today.

Bryant had been injured early in the 2009 season, but returned to play the final 7 games.  He looked good at times after his return.  Despite playing with the worst QBs in the league (combined rating of 59.8) he had 113 yards against Caroline and 91 against the Falcons.

he passed a physical before the Bengals gave him that big deal, but he never played for them.  He claimed a degenerative condition in his repaired knee made it impossible for him to play.  It is possible that he re-injured the knee after he passed the physical or perhaps if the inflammation was down the knee looked okay.  I don't know exactly what happened, but this reminds me a lot of what Green went through.  People claimed AJ looked good doing workouts, but there was still swelling and pain afterward.  Maybe Bryant was going through the same thing the end of the '09 season.  He was able to play on Sunday, but then would have pain and swelling through the week.

I would not trust re-signing Green even if he does pass a physical.  Sometimes injuries just don't heal properly.  Just ask Andrew Luck.

I am 100% with you.

[XenoMorph]

(01-27-2020, 02:30 PM)bengaloo Wrote: The difference I see is that Bryant had a more serious injury and they really didnt even see him run at all before they signed him, which is why it was so weird when he couldnt even run in his first practice. He was an outsider who didnt even work out for us before we signed him. It was a stupid signing because of that. Green's injury wasnt as serious, and he has been running and practicing for a good while. People watching has said he looked great running, but the season was shot and he wasnt coming back even though he was probably 98% recovered. Different people, different situation, different injuries. Just not a good comparison imo.

If we can get him at 8-9 mil plus incentives, it may be worth it to keep him around. He has a lot of gas left in his tank.

we would have to sign him to a long term deal for those prices....  I would want very little guaranteed.. And at his age he will want most of it gaurenteed.

[leonardfan40]

I may be of the minority here but I don’t want to see us let AJ walk. I’m fine with the franchise tag for a year. I’d prefer to lock him up 2-3 at a reasonable price if he’s open to it.

Franchise tag won’t hurt us, not like Mike will spend the money on a useful player from anywhere else so he should at least keep our best player unless the doctors say he’s done which I don’t think is the case

[Hammerstripes]

There's no way that I would let him walk - and the reason is simple - Mike Brown will not spend that $18 million on anyone to replace him. It won't happen. I'd rather bet on him coming back and playing than betting on Mike Brown to sign a free agent or two.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-27-2020, 02:30 PM)bengaloo Wrote: The difference I see is that Bryant had a more serious injury and they really didnt even see him run at all before they signed him, which is why it was so weird when he couldnt even run in his first practice. He was an outsider who didnt even work out for us before we signed him. It was a stupid signing because of that. Green's injury wasnt as serious, and he has been running and practicing for a good while. People watching has said he looked great running, but the season was shot and he wasnt coming back even though he was probably 98% recovered. Different people, different situation, different injuries. Just not a good comparison imo.

If we can get him at 8-9 mil plus incentives, it may be worth it to keep him around. He has a lot of gas left in his tank.

I agree with this, not a good comparison. AJ's injury is not near as bad, as far as I know AJ is completely healthy right now.

Don't tag AJ, if we want to keep him sign him to a multiple year contract laden with incentives.

[fredtoast]

(01-27-2020, 02:30 PM)bengaloo Wrote: The difference I see is that Bryant had a more serious injury and they really didnt even see him run at all before they signed him,

Not only did they see Bryant run, but they saw him have 100 yard receiving games.  On the other hand Green could not even play.

[fredtoast]

(01-27-2020, 04:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree with this, not a good comparison. AJ's injury is not near as bad, as far as I know AJ is completely healthy right now.

 Bryant was playing the last 7 games of the '09 season.  How could you say his injury was worse when Green could not play a single game?

[XenoMorph]

(01-27-2020, 04:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree with this, not a good comparison. AJ's injury is not near as bad, as far as I know AJ is completely healthy right now.

Don't tag AJ, if we want to keep him sign him to a multiple year contract laden with incentives.

if it wasn't that bad why wasn't he on the field for the last year +

[*Synric*]

(01-27-2020, 04:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  Bryant was playing the last 7 games of the '09 season.  How could you say his injury was worse when Green could not play a single game?

(01-27-2020, 04:58 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: if it wasn't that bad why wasn't he on the field for the last year +

It was a hold out.

The day after the last game Green announced he was done with his rehab, wasnt going to take much time off, then get back to work.

It was not a severe injury if it was he would have been put on IR before week 17. 

[fredtoast]

(01-27-2020, 05:04 PM)Synric Wrote: It was a hold out.

The day after the last game Green announced he was done with his rehab, wasnt going to take much time off, then get back to work.

It was not a severe injury if it was he would have been put on IR before week 17. 

If he wanted to hold out then he would have been placed on IR much earlier also.

It makes absolutely no sense for Green to intentionally refuse to play because if he did then that cost him millions of dollars.  The worst thing a player can do in a contract year is get injured and then have the recovery go so badly wrong that he does not play all year.

If he could have played even one game he would have because it would have made him millions of dollars on his upcoming contract.