Todd mccshay

[fredtoast]

(02-05-2020, 06:19 PM)Okeana Wrote: yep fred he's a total bust.  Must be frustrating for you

WTF?

I never said he was a bust, and if he was why would it be frustrating for me?

[Au165]

(02-05-2020, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you mean by this.  The only really good team Bama played before Tua went down was LSU and when you look at their head-to-head stats in that game there is not a big difference

Tua  418 yds, 4 td, 168.3 rating
Joe  393 yds, 3 td, 189.5 rating

Tua 52% completion
Burrow 80% completion

Tua 1 interception
Burrow 0 interceptions

Tua -5 rushing
Burrow 64 rushing

[*Synric*]

(02-05-2020, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you mean by this.  The only really good team Bama played before Tua went down was LSU and when you look at their head-to-head stats in that game there is not a big difference

Tua  418 yds, 4 td, 168.3 rating
Joe  393 yds, 3 td, 189.5 rating

(02-05-2020, 06:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: Tua 52% completion
Burrow 80% completion

Tua 1 interception
Burrow 0 interceptions

Both of them also had fumbles Burrows was a strip that flew out of his hands into a defensive tackle...He also got the tackle from that lol. Tua's fumble the ball just popped out of his hands on the run.

But passing stats don't tell the whole story.

The LSU defense was giving Tua fits in the first half shutting down Harris and getting pressure. Tua struggled. In the second half Alabama finally got Najee Harris going which opened up the play action for Tua. Joe Burrow was under pressure the entire game and was sacked 5 times but he thrived also rushing for 60+ yards and making plays off script.

Joe Burrow had a hell of alot better game.

[Au165]

Also worth noting, former scout and current draft evaluator Daniel Jeremiah said he looked at Tua’s best five games compared to Burrows five best and he’d take Burrow over Tua. Said he just thinks even if Tua was healthy Burrow is the better player, he thinks he could be really special.

[fredtoast]

Let me repeat something I have already said in another thread.

Tua has way too many injury issues. My fear is that the Bengals will see Tua as a "bargain" if he drops due to those issues.

I have seen multiple scouts say that Tua is just as good as Burrow. I have watched them both and I believe it. But there is no way in hell I want the Bengals to draft Tua.

[Big Boss]

(02-05-2020, 12:43 PM)Jpoore Wrote: For the people insisting that burrow was clearly qb1 even if tua hadn’t got hurt

Todd McShay on @dpshow:

“I would take Tua over Joe Burrow if there were no medical concerns.”

Compared him to Drew Brees.

But Tua is hurt, therefore irrelevant.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-05-2020, 06:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's fair, but Burrow hadn't really played fantastic against a lot of the best competition at the point Tua went down.

True to a point, it was after that Burrow lit up top teams. Doesn't really matter to me though.

Burrow played great against great Defenses.

(02-05-2020, 06:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: 21/24 for 293 and 3 TDs against Florida was before Tua went down. That said he was fantastic against lesser competition that was comparable to the teams Tua had played up to that point.

That is pretty decent lol

(02-05-2020, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you mean by this.  The only really good team Bama played before Tua went down was LSU and when you look at their head-to-head stats in that game there is not a big difference

Tua  418 yds, 4 td, 168.3 rating
Joe  393 yds, 3 td, 189.5 rating

As others said, Burrow still had a better game than Tua did as you avoided the stats that prove these stats false.

Also, last I heard Bama had a better Defense last year than LSU. So Burrow did it against the better Defense.

Just makes my point honestly.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-05-2020, 07:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Let me repeat something I have already said in another thread.

Tua has way too many injury issues.  My fear is that the Bengals will see Tua as a "bargain" if he drops due to those issues.

I have seen multiple scouts say that Tua is just as good as Burrow.  I have watched them both and I believe it. But there is no way in hell I want the Bengals to draft Tua.

I thought Tua when healthy was very good, close to Burrow until he got hurt and Burrow just went off.

Burrow was just so damn impressive late in the year and something I like about Burrow over Tua as well is his height.

Will be nice to have a QB that can see over the big Lineman. Not that Burrow is much taller than Dalton but a touch helps.

[Jpoore]

(02-05-2020, 01:26 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: But there are medical concerns. And that’s his opinion. At least he didn’t say he take Love over both of them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have burrow as qb1b(tua qb1a). Wouldn’t take love over either at 1.

(02-05-2020, 02:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: He has said Burrow should be the pick at 1 for the Bengals and it would be so hard not to. Fun to point out, PFF graded Burrows season the greatest season ever played since they started grading college football about 5-6 years ago. That is better than any single season Tua or Lawrence put together.

Also, Can we revoke Jpoore's ability to make more Burrow threads? This is getting kind of ridiculous, and seriously starting to feel like his Kylar Murray take where he tried to speak him being bad into existence.

I had Murray as a top 15 player in that draft. He was always great as a talent.

(02-05-2020, 05:04 PM)Okeana Wrote: ok man, we know you don't like burrow do you need to make a new thread every day with the same thing.

I like burrow?

(02-05-2020, 05:27 PM)J24 Wrote: I'm going to call BS on Mcshay here.
1.) Burrow just had the greatest season any college QB has ever had.
2.) Burrow and Tua strengths and Weaknesses are nearly the same. When both are healthy.
3.) Burrow is also the bigger of the two.
It would be somewhat close but Burrow would be ahead.

Disagree on number 2. Burrows weakness is arm strength/velocity where tuas strength is arm strength.

[Au165]

(02-05-2020, 08:34 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I had Murray as a top 15 player in that draft. He was always great as a talent.

You spent every day up until the draft proclaiming he wasn’t a first rounder. Every post about the kid you jumped in to say “still not a first rounder”. You went so far to bet me he wouldn’t be, and you lost. Reason why doesn’t even matter, when everything in the world was saying your assessment was wrong you just kept banging the drum. You get laser focused on your guy and just try to talk them being good into existence like Nassir Adderaly last year.

[Jpoore]

(02-05-2020, 09:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: You spent every day up until the draft proclaiming he wasn’t a first rounder. Every post about the kid you jumped in to say “still not a first rounder”. You went so far to bet me he wouldn’t be, and you lost. Reason why doesn’t even matter, when everything in the world was saying your assessment was wrong you just kept banging the drum. You get laser focused on your guy and just try to talk them being good into existence like Nassir Adderaly last year.

The why was the baseball issue.... and adderly will be good.

[*Synric*]

(02-05-2020, 08:34 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Disagree on number 2. Burrows weakness is arm strength/velocity where tuas strength is arm strength.

Now you're just making stuff up.

[Jpoore]

(02-05-2020, 10:09 PM)Synric Wrote: Now you're just making stuff up.

? Go look at any scouting report you’ll see arm strength or velocity listed as a weakness. It’s not a major one but it is there

[*Synric*]

(02-05-2020, 10:48 PM)Jpoore Wrote: ? Go look at any scouting report you’ll see arm strength or velocity listed as a weakness. It’s not a major one but it is there

Tua Tagovailoa's arm is on the same level. He needs a strong base to create torque. 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-tua-tagovailoa-is-every-bit-a-franchise-qb-prospect

Quote:ARM STRENGTH

This is the one trait that will get picked apart by evaluators all spring. Tagovailoa’s arm strength is on the low end for NFL standards and can only get worse with his hip injury robbing him of some torque in his lower half. He’s had one pass his entire college career travel 50-plus yards downfield. That throw, shown below, was an interception against LSU in 2018 and looked as if it was everything Tagovailoa had in the tank.


From release to landing spot is still comfortably under 60 yards on that throw. There are quarterbacks with weaker arms starting in the league, but we’d be lying if we said it wasn’t a concern.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/tua-tagovailoa/4bK8XpFwjJ

Quote:CONS: [Delivery features a slight hitch. Base will occasionally narrow and impact his release point. Has some intermittent issues staying on top of the ball on quick outs. Missed some coverage rotations vs Georgia and Clemson late in 2018 that led to costly turnovers. On a few instances (enough to note), it appeared that he didn’t read the same leverage as his receiver on some deep shots. Arm strength is good enough but he doesn’t have a cannon. Injury history is concerning.

Quote:Arm Strength - Does he have elite strength? No. Is his arm strength a problem? Definitely not. He's got plenty of juice from within the pocket and generates desirable heat on the ball when he gets down hill to throw on the run. Has ability to squeeze tight throws in tight windows with zip but more so because he's so accurate.

[Bengal Dude]

Meh, McShay is the same guy who was pumping up Jevan Snead a while back. He said he'd be one of, if not the best, QBs in his draft. Snead declared early and promptly went undrafted.

[Au165]

(02-06-2020, 02:06 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Meh, McShay is the same guy who was pumping up Jevan Snead a while back. He said he'd be one of, if not the best, QBs in his draft. Snead declared early and promptly went undrafted.

Everyone has their one dude they fall in love with and it goes horribly wrong. Mel Kiper's was Jimmy Clausen. There were a lot of draft Analysts that thought Jake Locker was "the guy". 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-05-2020, 06:18 PM)Okeana Wrote: yeah you're right Burrow is obviously not on the level of the great tua.  LMAO

That's not what I said at all.

I said that by mid-November, Burrow then was not what he is now.
Yes, he had some good games but his play through the SEC Championship and College Football Playoff really solidified him as the real deal.

Look, I really like Burrow, but let's not act like he's been phenomenal his whole college career.

And yes, I still think Burrow did better in 2019 than Tua did, but Tua has had a more consistent level of production in college.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-05-2020, 07:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True to a point, it was after that Burrow lit up top teams. Doesn't really matter to me though.

Burrow played great against great Defenses.



That is pretty decent lol



As others said, Burrow still had a better game than Tua did as you avoided the stats that prove these stats false.

Also, last I heard Bama had a better Defense last year than LSU. So Burrow did it against the better Defense.

Just makes my point honestly.

Yes, Burrow absolutely did.
But people are acting like Burrow was always the frontrunner and Tua was worse, which was definitely not true.
Burrow really elevated his game in 2019 whereas Tua has always been rather consistently good.
Aside from the injury concerns, Tua has the best shot to be a good NFL QB aside from Burrow.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-05-2020, 06:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: 21/24 for 293 and 3 TDs against Florida was before Tua went down. That said he was fantastic against lesser competition that was comparable to the teams Tua had played up to that point.

Florida was 7th at the time, so it was a good performance.

Notice what I said though...he hadn't played fantastic against A LOT of great competition to that point.
He played great against Florida and Alabama before Tua went down.
That's only two.

I wasn't as on-board with Burrow at that point as I am now. I needed to see more to convince me. Luckily, his performances through the rest of the year helped with that.
Meanwhile, Tua was playing very well in 2019 after coming off a stellar 2018 and winning the National Championship in 2017.
I felt Tua was a safer prospect to project than Burrow by Nov 16, 2019.

[Au165]

(02-06-2020, 11:26 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Florida was 7th at the time, so it was a good performance.

Notice what I said though...he hadn't played fantastic against A LOT of great competition to that point.
He played great against Florida and Alabama before Tua went down.
That's only two.

I wasn't as on-board with Burrow at that point as I am now. I needed to see more to convince me. Luckily, his performances through the rest of the year helped with that.
Meanwhile, Tua was playing very well in 2019 after coming off a stellar 2018 and winning the National Championship in 2017.
I felt Tua was a safer prospect to project than Burrow by Nov 16, 2019.

Tua's schedule before he got hurt was not good at all. He creamed cupcakes, something Burrow did as well.



I'd argue Burrow had played a much better schedule at that point as he played a ranked Texas, Auburn, Florida, and then Bama. He played well in all of those games as well. 



It's interesting more people are finally starting to accept that Burrow could simply be better than Tua, not just because of Tua's injuries either. I mentioned Daniel Jeremiah saying that and he is not alone in that take. The problem with scouting is people don't like to admit their early beliefs on guys were wrong. People who pushed "Tank for Tua" and proclaimed him the next coming won't easily move off that position that someone could be better. We could see a similar situation with Lawrence next year because of how strongly entrenched people were his freshman year about him being the best prospect in X year.