The Oline - where is it really ?

[bengals67]

Lots of people know way more than me on this board but what shocks me about Price is his lack of mobility.

I recall watching several plays last year where D lineman went right by him as he completely whiffed.

Am I wrong?

Shouldn't that have been a weakness apparent to scouts watching his college tape?

Our drafts have just been awful ( except the luck associated with Mixon being available in second round) ever since we missed on the two OTs in the same draft.

Not good for a team that stubbornly refuses to go after top free agents because they are building through draft.

If you are so set on building through the draft, why do you have the smallest scouting department?

I know everyone has asked these questions. Thanks for indulging me.

[Bengalstripes9]

This line needs an anchor more than anything. We need a left tackle to set the edge. I really hope our rookie from last year fits the bill. A lot of people expect him to. We'll find out as we go.

We have a solid center. Center and LT are the most important positions. If those positions are set as we are being led to believe, then we aren't that far off.

We've got some young guards and tackles developing. But we need to add at least one good free agent guard in my opinion. Then add another guard/tackle in the draft. We have room for 2 or 3 players.

I'm assuming we let Glenn go, but maybe they want him as a backup tackle and starting guard. The way things went last year, it sounds like they probably let him go though.

I don't think it will be pretty right out of the gate. If our Left Tackle is for real though, I could see this line developing quite well by the end of the year. If he's no good, it'll be back to the drawing board.

[JSR18]

(02-05-2020, 01:02 AM)lone bengal Wrote: My assessment of the O-line

Jonah Williams - If he's good he will be a huge part of the rebuild. Fans will jump on him early if he struggles but this will essentially be his first year we need to give it time to see if he can play.

Hopkins - Smart player / only lineman we have that plays average or above

John Miller - 6th year in the league has been a below average guard most of his career don’t see that changing. The Bengals will start him because he’s not terrible and their paying him. Stats quo upgrading won’t cross their minds.

Bobby Hart - 6th year in the league has never and will never be a starting quality tackle. When he dosen’t play horrific fan’s refer it to as Hart not playing that bad.

Michael Jordan - Young with good size. Tough spot to start as a 4th round rookie. Looked horrible at the beginning of the year played less worse as the year went on. He has potential but I won’t consider it a reason not to try to upgrade at guard with a quality vet to compete with him and miller.

Billy Price - I don’t think he can play guard at the next level and Hopkins is the starting center for the future. Price would be a trade candidate for me try to save face and get what you can from a center needy team. He has two years left with the team because there’s no way there picking up his 5th year option.

Fred Johnson- Young with upside like him as a swing tackle. Won’t make his addition as a reason to draft a RT high or add a proven free agent.

John Jerry- 35 year old bad tackle on a rebuilding team, see you later

Alex Redmond- Seems like a career backup guard, penalty issues along with a PED suspension. If resigned should not cost that much.

Isaiah Price / O’Shea Dugas -Seem like bottom of the roster/ practice squad level type tackles, nothing to get excited about.

Don't necessarily disagree with your assessment. TBS, Fred Johnson may not be a starting caliber Tackle yet, but RIGHT NOW he's a HUGE upgrade from Bobby Hart....

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Joelist]

What would also help is if we stopped trying to implement zone blocking schemes with players far better suited to angled drive blocking. We started the season using zone and the line looked like the worst line in NFL history. We switched after the bye and once the linemen got comfortable with the angles the run game emerged and there was even a bit of improvement on pass blocking (although we still had a turnstile at RT). Miller looked better which was unsurprising as his scouting showed he was much better in a drive block scenario.

They need to pick a blocking scheme and use both Free Agency and the draft to stock up on players who have the tools to do that scheme well.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-05-2020, 02:53 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I agree with that and it's why I'd love to see them pick up at least one legit lineman via free agency. Two even better ! Then if a top WR falls for whatever reasons nab him. Gives us more leverage to pick BPA.

Laviska chenault jr. has been falling out of the first in some of my recent drafts. I think he would be a really nice addition to our WR core.
[/quote]

Watched this guy play one time and he blew me away. Extremely talented player, can even play RB.

If we do get one or hopefully two Lineman in FA I would definitely be for Drafting Chenault at 33.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-05-2020, 06:37 PM)Joelist Wrote: What would also help is if we stopped trying to implement zone blocking schemes with players far better suited to angled drive blocking. We started the season using zone and the line looked like the worst line in NFL history. We switched after the bye and once the linemen got comfortable with the angles the run game emerged and there was even a bit of improvement on pass blocking (although we still had a turnstile at RT). Miller looked better which was unsurprising as his scouting showed he was much better in a drive block scenario.

They need to pick a blocking scheme and use both Free Agency and the draft to stock up on players who have the tools to do that scheme well.

Very well said Joelist. Draft drive blockers from now on if this is the scheme that works for us.

Of the FA's out there I wonder which ones are drive blockers and which ones are not? Haven't went this deep into it.

[fredtoast]

Most of these Fred Johnson comments sound almost word-for-word the same as I heard about Westerman when he looked good in one game at the end of the year.

[fredtoast]

Here is all you need to know about our O-line last year.

In 2018 Andre Smith was cut by the Cards when he allowed the same number of sacks as Bobby Hart in about half the number of snaps played.  Opening day 2019 not only was Dre starting for us but it was at LEFT TACKLE.  When we finally benched him we replaced him with a guy who could not even make an NFL roster in 2018 (John Jerry).

We never had a chance.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 07:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Most of these Fred Johnson comments sound almost word-for-word the same as I heard about Westerman when he looked good in one game at the end of the year.

Tbf Westerman never filled in at LT did he?

[fredtoast]

(02-05-2020, 07:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tbf Westerman never filled in at LT did he?

Different position.

Same high hopes.

At least Fred played a full game.  A bunch of people here fell for Christian despite the fact that he only played about half of the snaps in just one game.

[lone bengal]

(02-05-2020, 07:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Most of these Fred Johnson comments sound almost word-for-word the same as I heard about Westerman when he looked good in one game at the end of the year.

Kinda agree ,feel like the Bengals are pushing it to because they don’t want to spend on free agent lineman. Can’t picture an undrafted free agent from the Steelers practice squad turning into a hidden gem, sounds too good to be true lol. With that being said I rather keep a young tackle with upside like Johnson on the roster versus a 35 year old like John Jerry or retreads like Andre Smith. At least Johnson going into year 2 has the chance to develop into a good tackle versus Hart in his 6th year who basically is what he is a bad tackle.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-05-2020, 07:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Different position.

Same high hopes.

At least Fred played a full game.  A bunch of people here fell for Christian despite the fact that he only played about half of the snaps in just one game.

I never got to see Fred Johnson play so I have no bias either way.

I liked Westerman until he shown he could only play one position and he couldn't move laterally well.

Hope this Fred Johnson is the real deal, but we need to Draft a RT or better get Conklin in FA in case he is not.

[Nati#1]

BRING WHITWORTH BACK

[fredtoast]

(02-05-2020, 07:44 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: BRING WHITWORTH BACK

Only as a coach.

He looked old last year, and at 39 he will look worse this year.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 07:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only as a coach.

He looked old last year, and at 39 he will look worse this year.

Graded out at 72.8 last year. That’s still starter quality, and higher than anyone we currently have on the team.

[lone bengal]

(02-05-2020, 07:44 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: BRING WHITWORTH BACK

Exactly what a rebuilding team needs a 39 year old lineman lol

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-05-2020, 01:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They actually just lost their OL coach again. He’s retiring.

That could really hurt them. When they slipped for a couple of years, they drug him out of retirement.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-05-2020, 07:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is all you need to know about our O-line last year.

In 2018 Andre Smith was cut by the Cards when he allowed the same number of sacks as Bobby Hart in about half the number of snaps played.  Opening day 2019 not only was Dre starting for us but it was at LEFT TACKLE.  When we finally benched him we replaced him with a guy who could not even make an NFL roster in 2018 (John Jerry).

We never had a chance.

Good point, and John Jerry wasn't even a tackle by trade.

[*Synric*]

Some other reasons the Offensive Line PFF scores were low.

1. PFF grades Run blocking very harshly a 59 is considered above average. Early in the year the Bengals offensive line struggled with the outside zone stretch which they received very low scores. After the scheme switched the scores went up but not high enough to effect their yearly average very much.

2. The Bengals had 10 or 11 different Offensive line combinations including 4 different left tackles on the season. Offensive line is one position played by 5 people there was never any chemistry built up.

3. The Wide Receivers had trouble winning which caused the ball to be held longer than it should...Its a marriage between the skill positions and the line.

4. The Quarterback struggled with his pocket awareness jumping at ghosts and walking into defenders.

The line needs work but there were some positives. Trey Hopkins showed he can be a good center in the NFL. Michael Jordan showed progression as the season went on with an offseason dedicated to his craft and not pre draft workouts I'm excited to see how he develops. Bengals using a 1st round pick on a Left Tackle in Jonah Williams I would have loved to see him play but like Jordan the offseason could be a great thing for him.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 10:42 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: That could really hurt them. When they slipped for a couple of years, they drug him out of retirement.

They need some weapons in the worst way up there. It will be interesting to see just how good the hoodie is with without a prime Brady, Gronk, etc.

He’ll probably always field a top notch defense, but I could see NE struggling on offense for a while.