Bengals cannot fix the team in one draft. If the go Burrow, then fix the OL and go from there. Maybe a high WR/TE and a couple backers. Give Burrow some time and a couple weapons. Establish Mixon and run the damn ball. Both Guards need replaced. and maybe that kid from St. Johns or Jones at OT.
I think they will draft Throckmorton in later rounds
-Paul Brown “When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less.”
(02-05-2020, 12:07 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The state of the Oline has been a hot topic and much debated subject over the last few seasons. And it's obvious it needs upgraded especially if we're going with a rookie QB.
The line seemed to show some improvement late in the season. But how much of that was just playing not so good competition ? Who on the Oline is worth keeping, who needs to go ?
Here's a list of guys currently on roster and their stats from pff: (I don't have access to other stats, pressures etc.)
C Billy Price 3rd season 588 snaps 4 penalties gave up 3 sacks overall pff grade 41.8
C Trey Hopkins 5th season 1,097 snaps 2 penalties 4 sacks grade 62.4
G John Jerry 10th season 445 snaps 2 penalties 8 sacks 55.6 grade
G Michael Jordan 2nd season 648 snaps 6 penalties 6 sacks 43.7 grade
G John Miller 6th season 779 snaps 3 penalties 2 sacks 58.6 grade
T Fred Johnson 2nd season 144 snaps 2 penalties 0 sacks 62.6 grade
T Cordy Glenn 9th season 291 snaps 0 penalties 4 sacks 68.4 grade
T Bobby Hart 6th season 1,086 snaps 8 penalties 6 sacks 57.7 grade
T Isaiah Prince 2nd season 70 snaps 2 penalties 1 sack 45.6 grade
T Jonah Williams 2nd season N/A
Two players listed on IR:
T O'shea Dugas 2nd season N/A
G Alex Redmond 4th season 189 snaps 1 penalty 2 sacks 50.6 grade
First off I don't believe pff is the tell all end all. However, these stats line up pretty well with my eye test so..... to say the least we have pretty much a group of barely serviceable NFL wise Olinemen.
Just for some examples the lowest grade on Cowboys Oline was like 68. They have two guys in low 70's and two in mid to high 80's grade wise. Ravens had two guys in 70's two mid to high 80's lowest I saw was again like 68.
Back to the Bengals. I'm quite sure we'd grade out in the bottom 1/4 of NFL, if not the worst. Billy Price thus far has been hot garbage ! He's got bust written all over him. Do we cut bait and run ? John Jerry will be entering season 10 and he gave up 8 sacks in 445 snaps with 55 grade. I don't want to keep our best graded lineman Glenn. Bobby Hart is just a penalty machine and not that good.
Then comes Jonah Williams, who knows what he'll be ? If there's any decent free agents out there we badly need to get at least one if not two ? And we need to move on from some of these guys.
In my mind we need a pretty major overhaul of the Oline.
You know what i want....I want guys who truly earn the job to start from Day 1.
With injuries, poor drafting, perhaps questionable free agency decisions it feels like we were continually falling into a makeshift line and people were getting the jobs by default.
The only guy who i think actually won his battle and was rewarded with a starting spot from Day 1 was Trey Hopkins > Price.
We rashly signed Hart up to make him our default RT, MJ was christened the LG because Boling retired, once Jonah was gone LT was a revolving door, Price is bouncing around and was getting starts just because he was a warm body.
We hang onto sub standard guys too long...when you invested in quality talent the OL picks itself.
Still feels like for the past 3-4 years we've never known what our best OL is and its throw a bunch of cr*p at the wall and see what sticks.
Second, we don't know Jonah's status or what he will actually bring, so I believe the team keeps Glenn.
Fred Johnson showed potential and makes Prince expendable in training camp.
Hart, yet to actually be a good OT, could be kept if an OT is not drafted in the second round and the team may prefer him over Glen due to salary and age.
At OG, don't we need two of them? None of them appear deserving of a starting job. I see the team spending a late round pick once again hoping to find a gem.
(02-05-2020, 12:07 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The state of the Oline has been a hot topic and much debated subject over the last few seasons. And it's obvious it needs upgraded especially if we're going with a rookie QB.
The line seemed to show some improvement late in the season. But how much of that was just playing not so good competition ? Who on the Oline is worth keeping, who needs to go ?
Here's a list of guys currently on roster and their stats from pff: (I don't have access to other stats, pressures etc.)
C Billy Price 3rd season 588 snaps 4 penalties gave up 3 sacks overall pff grade 41.8
C Trey Hopkins 5th season 1,097 snaps 2 penalties 4 sacks grade 62.4
G John Jerry 10th season 445 snaps 2 penalties 8 sacks 55.6 grade
G Michael Jordan 2nd season 648 snaps 6 penalties 6 sacks 43.7 grade
G John Miller 6th season 779 snaps 3 penalties 2 sacks 58.6 grade
T Fred Johnson 2nd season 144 snaps 2 penalties 0 sacks 62.6 grade
T Cordy Glenn 9th season 291 snaps 0 penalties 4 sacks 68.4 grade
T Bobby Hart 6th season 1,086 snaps 8 penalties 6 sacks 57.7 grade
T Isaiah Prince 2nd season 70 snaps 2 penalties 1 sack 45.6 grade
T Jonah Williams 2nd season N/A
Two players listed on IR:
T O'shea Dugas 2nd season N/A
G Alex Redmond 4th season 189 snaps 1 penalty 2 sacks 50.6 grade
First off I don't believe pff is the tell all end all. However, these stats line up pretty well with my eye test so..... to say the least we have pretty much a group of barely serviceable NFL wise Olinemen.
Just for some examples the lowest grade on Cowboys Oline was like 68. They have two guys in low 70's and two in mid to high 80's grade wise. Ravens had two guys in 70's two mid to high 80's lowest I saw was again like 68.
Back to the Bengals. I'm quite sure we'd grade out in the bottom 1/4 of NFL, if not the worst. Billy Price thus far has been hot garbage ! He's got bust written all over him. Do we cut bait and run ? John Jerry will be entering season 10 and he gave up 8 sacks in 445 snaps with 55 grade. I don't want to keep our best graded lineman Glenn. Bobby Hart is just a penalty machine and not that good.
Then comes Jonah Williams, who knows what he'll be ? If there's any decent free agents out there we badly need to get at least one if not two ? And we need to move on from some of these guys.
In my mind we need a pretty major overhaul of the Oline.
They need massive upgrades at the Guard position. One can come from the draft but I really hope they go with both a RT and RG in the draft and get a FA LG.
I would rather them spend on FA and draft these positions than any other except the first pick, QB. I could see them trading back in the 2nd round to try and pick up an additional 3rd rounder and they could go QB, RT, RG, and LB in those first four picks. I know it is stupid to say things like "get your guard in Rd 3", but there is a pretty solid talent pool of guards that could allow for that.
The best offenses still trump the best defenses...we saw it again in the Super Bowl. The Bengals will not have a very strong offense unless they have significant improvements on the offensive line. I don't see those improvements coming from just adding Jonah Williams. He could help, but they need much more than just "another year older".
(02-05-2020, 01:51 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: As far as I'm concerned, Hopkins and Jonah are the only ones with their starting jobs locked up for next season. LG, RG, and RT should be up for grabs, but I have a feeling that maybe only LG is open, with it being Jordan's job to lose.
This is probably the most accurate assessment of where the Bengals sit right now. There are a couple maulers at RG in the draft that could be nice additions that could push to start and with Miller in the last year of his deal (I think), it makes a lot of sense (based on their history).
Even if they are going to go with the competition of Hart/Fred Johnson at RT, they need better play inside. One "hole" sinks the boat.
(02-05-2020, 10:25 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I thought Price was at least gonna be a good one. Thus far he's been a total bust. I mean not even practice squad worthy. If it was me if he's not totally tearing it up in camp/preseason I'd give serious consideration to moving on to hell with his draft status ! We've got to get better and fast.
Me too...Price is a bigger bust than Og and Fisher at this point...One thing I will say in his defense is that the word is he has never been close to healthy and it has really effected his play. That being said, the very first snap of his career he did a complete whiff that turned in to a Dalton INT that would have scored if Dalton wasn't a better tackler than half our defense.
Injuries might explain some of it, but he was the strongest linemen coming out of his draft, was a leader, and was a stud at both G and C at Ohio State. I am puzzled as I thought he was the safest, if unsexiest, pick coming out.
He isn't going to be cut, though, while he is still on his rookie deal and they will wait to see if the light comes on and he can play significantly better while healthy. All that being said, right now, he is a bench guy....And frankly, his presence at backup makes the Bengals likely think they won't get a FA Guard because then you are benching two young guys they drafted (they won't bench Miller).
(02-07-2020, 09:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Me too...Price is a bigger bust than Og and Fisher at this point...One thing I will say in his defense is that the word is he has never been close to healthy and it has really effected his play. That being said, the very first snap of his career he did a complete whiff that turned in to a Dalton INT that would have scored if Dalton wasn't a better tackler than half our defense.
Injuries might explain some of it, but he was the strongest linemen coming out of his draft, was a leader, and was a stud at both G and C at Ohio State. I am puzzled as I thought he was the safest, if unsexiest, pick coming out.
He isn't going to be cut, though, while he is still on his rookie deal and they will wait to see if the light comes on and he can play significantly better while healthy. All that being said, right now, he is a bench guy....And frankly, his presence at backup makes the Bengals likely think they won't get a FA Guard because then you are benching two young guys they drafted (they won't bench Miller).
I'm guilty of going overboard on the Price hype train. At tOSU, he had a great reputation as a no nonsense, hard working, great locker room guy. I try to keep my Buckeye fandom separate from the Bengals but I thought he was a sure thing.
A friend of Price occasionally posts on tOSU's Rival site (where I spend most of my online time). When asked about Price's struggles, he wouldn't go into too many details but simply said "he needs to get his mind right".
(02-07-2020, 11:00 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I'm guilty of going overboard on the Price hype train. At tOSU, he had a great reputation as a no nonsense, hard working, great locker room guy. I try to keep my Buckeye fandom separate from the Bengals but I thought he was a sure thing.
A friend of Price occasionally posts on tOSU's Rival site (where I spend most of my online time). When asked about Price's struggles, he wouldn't go into too many details but simply said "he needs to get his mind right".
Price too eh? Thought Price had a great mind and that was why I wanted the guy here in the first place.
He was supposed to be very smart which you need in your Center to go along with the physical attributes.
His short arms have hindered him and injuries from most accounts.
(02-07-2020, 02:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Price too eh? Thought Price had a great mind and that was why I wanted the guy here in the first place.
He was supposed to be very smart which you need in your Center to go along with the physical attributes.
His short arms have hindered him and injuries from most accounts.
It's a good thing that they play in short sleeves.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(02-07-2020, 02:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Price too eh? Thought Price had a great mind and that was why I wanted the guy here in the first place.
He was supposed to be very smart which you need in your Center to go along with the physical attributes.
His short arms have hindered him and injuries from most accounts.
It is an odd duo, Price and Elflein. I remember a lot of us wanting that guy and every time I watched Minnesota, he was standout horrible. There will likely be another C/G coming from OSU that the Bengals will avoid and he will go on to be a HOF C/G. Just seems to be the way things work :)
(02-09-2020, 09:52 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It is an odd duo, Price and Elflein. I remember a lot of us wanting that guy and every time I watched Minnesota, he was standout horrible. There will likely be another C/G coming from OSU that the Bengals will avoid and he will go on to be a HOF C/G. Just seems to be the way things work :)
I am not an OSU fan, never have been but I was always kind of baffled why we never took some Buckeyes. Then these guys
come around look great in college and look really bad in the NFL. At least Hubbard is a stud, got one right.
Don't forget Hobson great article about how decent the OL with William returning. I was LMAO reading that article. I'm not sure what team he was watching this past year to write such a fluff piece.
(02-10-2020, 03:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am not an OSU fan, never have been but I was always kind of baffled why we never took some Buckeyes. Then these guys
come around look great in college and look really bad in the NFL. At least Hubbard is a stud, got one right.
I love Hubbard...he is probably my favorite Bengal right now, and he seems to get better each year.
I'm adjusting my expectations after reading Hobson describe the team's need to add multiple defenders on day 2. I tend to think that he's there to pad expectations for the fanbase when something is coming down the pipe. I'l be pleased as punch if the team manages to find 3 good to solid defensive contributors with said approach, but I still think it's the wrong way to look at things.
Why would you just shut out half of the players available when you pick? What if a run happens and a really good receiver or OL is available? I really hope the team isn't married to the plan he lays out.
As it applies to OL in the draft, I really believe that they could get an upgrade at OG in round 2, maybe even 3. Why keep running a journeyman in Miller out there if you can get a high upside guy like Kindley to hold the position down for 4 seasons? It would be cheaper, to boot.
(02-05-2020, 12:07 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The state of the Oline has been a hot topic and much debated subject over the last few seasons. And it's obvious it needs upgraded especially if we're going with a rookie QB.
The line seemed to show some improvement late in the season. But how much of that was just playing not so good competition ? Who on the Oline is worth keeping, who needs to go ?
Here's a list of guys currently on roster and their stats from pff: (I don't have access to other stats, pressures etc.)
C Billy Price 3rd season 588 snaps 4 penalties gave up 3 sacks overall pff grade 41.8
C Trey Hopkins 5th season 1,097 snaps 2 penalties 4 sacks grade 62.4
G John Jerry 10th season 445 snaps 2 penalties 8 sacks 55.6 grade
G Michael Jordan 2nd season 648 snaps 6 penalties 6 sacks 43.7 grade
G John Miller 6th season 779 snaps 3 penalties 2 sacks 58.6 grade
T Fred Johnson 2nd season 144 snaps 2 penalties 0 sacks 62.6 grade
T Cordy Glenn 9th season 291 snaps 0 penalties 4 sacks 68.4 grade
T Bobby Hart 6th season 1,086 snaps 8 penalties 6 sacks 57.7 grade
T Isaiah Prince 2nd season 70 snaps 2 penalties 1 sack 45.6 grade
T Jonah Williams 2nd season N/A
Two players listed on IR:
T O'shea Dugas 2nd season N/A
G Alex Redmond 4th season 189 snaps 1 penalty 2 sacks 50.6 grade
First off I don't believe pff is the tell all end all. However, these stats line up pretty well with my eye test so..... to say the least we have pretty much a group of barely serviceable NFL wise Olinemen.
Just for some examples the lowest grade on Cowboys Oline was like 68. They have two guys in low 70's and two in mid to high 80's grade wise. Ravens had two guys in 70's two mid to high 80's lowest I saw was again like 68.
Back to the Bengals. I'm quite sure we'd grade out in the bottom 1/4 of NFL, if not the worst. Billy Price thus far has been hot garbage ! He's got bust written all over him. Do we cut bait and run ? John Jerry will be entering season 10 and he gave up 8 sacks in 445 snaps with 55 grade. I don't want to keep our best graded lineman Glenn. Bobby Hart is just a penalty machine and not that good.
Then comes Jonah Williams, who knows what he'll be ? If there's any decent free agents out there we badly need to get at least one if not two ? And we need to move on from some of these guys.
In my mind we need a pretty major overhaul of the Oline.
The offensive line is usually in a 3 point stance between the QB and defensive line.......just saying
(02-15-2020, 04:49 PM)samhain Wrote: I'm adjusting my expectations after reading Hobson describe the team's need to add multiple defenders on day 2. I tend to think that he's there to pad expectations for the fanbase when something is coming down the pipe. I'l be pleased as punch if the team manages to find 3 good to solid defensive contributors with said approach, but I still think it's the wrong way to look at things.
Why would you just shut out half of the players available when you pick? What if a run happens and a really good receiver or OL is available? I really hope the team isn't married to the plan he lays out.
As it applies to OL in the draft, I really believe that they could get an upgrade at OG in round 2, maybe even 3. Why keep running a journeyman in Miller out there if you can get a high upside guy like Kindley to hold the position down for 4 seasons? It would be cheaper, to boot.
Hobson was talking about the draft? I thought he was speaking in terms of Free Agency, or maybe that was just some "wishful remembrance" on my part, as I'm sometimes apt to do.
With that said, I've been strategizing my mock drafts to cover 2 OL picks, thinking that the team would be boosting the defense through some sort of free agent moves. On that thought, I've been able to find quality Tackles in the 3rd round, and good RG candidates in rounds 4-7 with uncanny regularity.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
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