Cordy Glenn + Dre Kirkpatrick - Still Here...

[Wes Mantooth]

A lot of teams have started clearing cap space ahead of free agency. I seem to see a new list of guys cut everyday.

These two are still here. The questions I have for you all is, do they get cut prior to the start of free agency? Do they get cut at all? If so, when? Do you keep one over the other, do you keep both?

Basically, I am asking what are your thoughts on these two, and what do you think actually happens?

My thoughts? Keeping Glenn would almost be unforgiveable. I won't go into a lot of the reasons, as they've been discussed ad nauseam. But simply put, this guy has no business playing here next year.

And Dre? He's a clear choice for a cap casualty as I've ever seen. The guy hasn't played a full season in 5 years. Has never started 16 games. The last year (2017) he even played enough to qualify for a PFF rank he ranked #92. He's been overpaid, he's injury prone, he's aging, he has no long term future here and he can be cut without much dead money. Translation = See ya later!

Here's the tale of the tape on these two:

Cordy Glenn

Age - 30
Cap Savings - 9.5 mil
Dead Money - 0
Notes - Faked injury, almost fought coach, screamed at Taylor, screamed "just trade me", missed 10 games, never played a full season here, kinda sucks...

Dre Kirkpatrick

Age - 30
Cap Savings - 9.85 mil
Dead Money - 1.4 mil
Notes - See above...makes almost double what he should, injury prone, 1 INT in last 3 years, not good, huge douchebag...

So what do you think JN? Any chance we add this 19.35 mil to our FA budget and cut bait early? I really hope so, but I can't understand why it hasn't already happened. I'm getting nervous we hold on to both for awhile, to avoid spending in FA. I sure hope I'm wrong!!!!

[SunsetBengal]

Other than your arithmetic being slightly off (by $1.4M), I agree with everything that you are saying. You're right, $17.95M would likely fund a starting FA Guard, LB, as well as leave some change toward re-upping a guy who deserves it, like Andrew Billings.

[*Synric*]

(02-22-2020, 03:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Other than your arithmetic being slightly off (by $1.4M), I agree with everything that you are saying.  You're right, $17.95M  would likely fund a starting FA Guard, LB, as well as leave some change toward re-upping a guy who deserves it, like Andrew Billings.

If the Bengals trade or release Kirkpatrick they'd have to turn around and hand it to WJ3 plus a little more most likely. 

[SunsetBengal]

(02-22-2020, 03:26 PM)Synric Wrote: If the Bengals trade or release Kirkpatrick they'd have to turn around and hand it to WJ3 plus a little more most likely. 

I'd be fine with that.  I feel like WJ3 just had a down season, and will resume being a top level performer.

[Wes Mantooth]

Note: These two cuts alone he could almost cover the signings of a pair like Joe Schobert and Brandon Scherff.

And that's before you touch the 50 mil in space, or Andy's 17.5 mil coming off the books.

Basically, these two turds being out equals 20 mil. Take your pick of free agents and see what you can do with that money. Does anyone really think these dollars can't be better spent?

[*Synric*]

(02-22-2020, 03:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'd be fine with that.  I feel like WJ3 just had a down season, and will resume being a top level performer.

I can see it happening because WJ3 is up for a large extension this year.

Another guy they should decide on is a Carl Lawson extension. 

[Schmitbuck]

I'd imagine we'll find out within the next few weeks. I looked up that Pacman had his option declined on 3/9/18. Burflict was released just after the start of free agency last year 3/18/19. They could be trying to trade the players or wait until they need the cap space.

Personally, I would take whatever they can get in a trade or cut them.

[CJD]

I can see an argument for keeping Glenn.

Ultimately, it entirely depends on if the relationship between the Bengals and Glenn is repaired. He did come back and play for the end of the season and played pretty well. So if he can continue that production, I think it's better to keep him than to attempt to replace him with a rookie or mid tier free agent signing.

But if he still holds a grudge against the coaches, then he's better off being cut. We don't need a negative presence in the locker room. Glenn was a fine player, but he's not worth a potential headache on the team influencing our franchise QB.


Dre, on the other hand, can go. We can give his money to Dennard or potentially extending WJIII. If we re-sign Dennard, Dre is the 4th best CB on this team and you can't, in good conscience, pay your 4th CB 11 million dollars. Cutting him saves you nearly 10 million dollars this year and next.

We got Dennard on an absolute bargain in 2019, at 4.4 million. We could easily give him a 3 year deal and still save money on what we were paying Dre.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-22-2020, 03:34 PM)Synric Wrote: I can see it happening because WJ3 is up for a large extension this year.

Another guy they should decide on is a Carl Lawson extension. 

I'm mixed on Lawson.  He's got talent, but I'd rather they let him play it out, before handing him more money.  I think he needs to show more consistency in both his production and ability to stay healthy.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-22-2020, 03:26 PM)Synric Wrote: If the Bengals trade or release Kirkpatrick they'd have to turn around and hand it to WJ3 plus a little more most likely. 

William Jackson is making 9.95 mil this year.  You arguing we'd have earmark Dre's cap savings to account for his new deal? Plus "a little more"? How much do you want to pay the guy exactly? 25 mil a year?

You could give him a new 5 year 50 million deal, which is outrageous for his worth, and nof have to touch a penny of Dre's savings to cover the cap hit.

[*Synric*]

(02-22-2020, 03:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: William Jackson is making 9.95 mil this year.  You arguing we'd have earmark Dre's cap savings to account for his new deal? Plus "a little more"? How much do you want to pay the guy exactly? 25 mil a year?

A good boundary corner makes 12 to 14 mil a year and that's year average not cap hits.

I'm guessing 5 year 65mil. Cap hit could be close to 15 mil his first year.

[BengalFanInNJ]

I have a feeling they are going to keep Glenn and Kirkpatrick. I would be shocked if they let both of them go. Along with letting Dalton go, they would have another $26m in cap space along with the $47m they already have. Have the Bengals ever cleared that much cap space in one year?

[BengalFanInNJ]

(02-22-2020, 03:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: William Jackson is making 9.95 mil this year.  You arguing we'd have earmark Dre's cap savings to account for his new deal? Plus "a little more"? How much do you want to pay the guy exactly? 25 mil a year?

You could give him a new 5 year 50 million deal, which is outrageous for his worth, and nof have to touch a penny of Dre's savings to cover the cap hit.

He's going to want what Kirkpatrick is getting now at the very least. Can't say I blame him because I agree with Sunset in that I feel he just had a down year last year with a new coordinator. 

[CJD]

(02-22-2020, 03:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm mixed on Lawson.  He's got talent, but I'd rather they let him play it out, before handing him more money.  I think he needs to show more consistency in both his production and ability to stay healthy.

Yea, I agree. Lawson has shown flashes of brilliance, but he has injury problems and he is a little inconsistent, not to mention he's pretty mediocre against the run, so he's basically a 3rd down rusher. I'd prefer he play out his contract and then we can talk about re-signing him next off season.

You take the risk that, if he blows the doors off the game in 2020 his price would substantially increase, but that may be worth the risk.

However, if we can re-sign him to a 3 or 4 year contract this off season for 3 to 4 million per year, then I'd consider that a good risk to reward ratio.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-22-2020, 03:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Other than your arithmetic being slightly off (by $1.4M)

Curious, where is it off?

The 1.4 was accounted for. Dre's total contract is for 11.25 with 1.4 in dead space. That's why I listed his savings at 9.85.  Glenn's is listed at 9.5 with no dead money.

9.85 + 9.5 = 19.35 in cap savings.

The numbers from over the cap may not be accurate but I think my math is on. Either that, or I'm getting old and can't keep up anymore. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-22-2020, 03:46 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: He's going to want what Kirkpatrick is getting now at the very least. Can't say I blame him because I agree with Sunset in that I feel he just had a down year last year with a new coordinator. 

I mean, that's way more than he's worth but fine, give it to me if you want.

Dre signed a 5 year 52 mil deal. Average of 10.4 mil per.

William Jackson's cap hit and salary for this season is already 9.95 mil.

You would need to dip into less than 1 mil in Dre's savings to cover the increase this year.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(02-22-2020, 03:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Curious, where is it off?

The 1.4 was accounted for. Dre's total contract is for 11.25 with 1.4 in dead space. That's why I listed his savings at 9.85.  Glenn's is listed at 9.5 with no dead money.

9.85 + 9.5 = 19.35 in cap savings.

The numbers from over the cap may not be accurate but I think my math is on. Either that, or I'm getting old and can't keep up anymore. 

I think Kirkpatrick's dead space is $2.8 million. Of course, I could be wrong as well. 

[*pally*]

Even with performance issues, a starting left tackle with starting experience will be able to find a job in the NFL. If it happens I don't see him being waived until after free agency and the draft. They have to make sure they augment the line even more before getting rid of someone.

I see them trying to trade both players before cutting them. And for that to happen we need to get through free agency.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-22-2020, 03:43 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm guessing 5 year 65mil. Cap hit could be close to 15 mil his first year.

If they pay WJ 5 years 65 mil then that's the most ridiculous contract in the history of the NFL. What the hell are you smoking? 

FYI: His current market value on Sportrac is 6.3 mil.

[*Synric*]

(02-22-2020, 04:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If they pay WJ 5 years 65 mil then that's the most ridiculous contract in the history of the NFL. What the hell are you smoking? 

FYI: His current market value on Sportrac is 6.3 mil.

If you honestly believe William Jackson is going to make anything less than 12 mil a year I don't know what to say...