Defense round 2

[Gdale_Bengal]

Assuming the bengals are going to address the defensive problems starting in round 2, I think they will have a lot of talented players to choose from. I think we will all be satisfied if they pick any of these guys:

Patrick Queen who is a 3 down linebacker
Kenneth Murray who has incredible sideline to sideline speed.
Ross blacklock, a raw talent who could develop into a foundation piece to the defensive line after Atkins.
Damon Arnette, a solid DB with good ball skills.

Do not sleep on Zach Baun. Lou Anarumo plays a hybrid defense and he needs a edge/lb who can shift positions depending on what front they want to show. He can rush the passer standing up or down, drop into coverage, set the edge and help stop the run. He did all of that at Wisconson and Lou will put a premium on a guy who can do it naturally. Absolutely do not be surprised if Zach is the pick at 33.

[Bilbo Saggins]

Out of the four, I like Murray the best.  He possesses all of the requisite tools to become a good NFL linebacker.  Queen is a late riser, isn't he?  He seems solid, but the first round talk seems a bit rich to me.  Blacklock and Arnette seem to be OK players - but at 33?  Too rich imo.  Baun doesn't thrill me either.  I hope that they go heavy offense early in the draft unless great value falls.  The best defense is a rested defense.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-25-2020, 09:33 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Out of the four, I like Murray the best.  He possesses all of the requisite tools to become a good NFL linebacker.  Queen is a late riser, isn't he?  He seems solid, but the first round talk seems a bit rich to me.  Blacklock and Arnette seem to be OK players - but at 33?  Too rich imo.  Baun doesn't thrill me either.  I hope that they go heavy offense early in the draft unless great value falls.  The best defense is a rested defense.

I'm on board with murray. I think he will have a good career in the nfl. 

But Patrick Queen is considered one of the few 3 down linebackers coming out of thuis draft. 3 down rookie backers almost always go in the first. He is said to be like Myles Jack or Roquan Smith.

Damon Arnette has been mocked in the first in several mocks I've seen and done myself. If the Bengals choose a cb it is either a player who slid out of 1 or Arnette and just a few other cbs they like there. 

I watched Baun play some and his highlights are really fun to watch and most if his plays were explosive. He can do everything Lou asks him to do straight out of college. Wouldn't blink if he was the pick.

[Whatever]

(02-25-2020, 10:21 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I'm on board with murray. I think he will have a good career in the nfl. 

But Patrick Queen is considered one of the few 3 down linebackers coming out of thuis draft. 3 down rookie backers almost always go in the first. He is said to be like Myles Jack or Roquan Smith.

Damon Arnette has been mocked in the first in several mocks I've seen and done myself. If the Bengals choose a cb it is either a player who slid out of 1 or Arnette and just a few other cbs they like there. 

I watched Baun play some and his highlights are really fun to watch and most if his plays were explosive. He can do everything Lou asks him to do straight out of college. Wouldn't blink if he was the pick.

Everything about Queen screams bust.  He was a 6th round guy before the SEC title game and has basically shot up draft boards based on 3 good games and lack of talent at his position group.  

Keep in mind the guy he was buried behind just had a majorly disappointing rookie year.  Also, I can buy the Smith and Jack comps because they had PFF grades of 52 and 46 this past year.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-25-2020, 12:27 PM)Whatever Wrote: Everything about Queen screams bust.  He was a 6th round guy before the SEC title game and has basically shot up draft boards based on 3 good games and lack of talent at his position group.  

Keep in mind the guy he was buried behind just had a majorly disappointing rookie year.  Also, I can buy the Smith and Jack comps because they had PFF grades of 52 and 46 this past year.

That's all up to the scouting, players available and team needs. I see queen getting into the first in a lot if mocks and never gets further down than 10 picks in round 2. Bengals will definitely do there homework but regardless of what we think Queen is a day 1 or early day 2 prospect right now.

[Whatever]

(02-25-2020, 01:04 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: That's all up to the scouting, players available and team needs. I see queen getting into the first in a lot if mocks and never gets further down than 10 picks in round 2. Bengals will definitely do there homework but regardless of what we think Queen is a day 1 or early day 2 prospect right now.

Remember, Mack Wilson was supposedly a Day 1 or early Day 2 prospect last year and we all saw how that turned out.  Plus, they haven't even started combine drills yet.  There will be a ton of risers and fallers between now and draft day. 

Queen has 59 solo tackles in 3 years of college ball.  People think that because he can cover, he's a plug and play 3 down LB, but you've got to play the run to be a true 3 down LB.  

[SadFaceBengal15]

Not a huge fan of Murray but would take him at 33 I like queen at 33 but imo it may be a lil too early, but if those two aren’t there then I want Denzel Mims all day at 33

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-25-2020, 03:04 PM)Whatever Wrote: Remember, Mack Wilson was supposedly a Day 1 or early Day 2 prospect last year and we all saw how that turned out.  Plus, they haven't even started combine drills yet.  There will be a ton of risers and fallers between now and draft day. 

Queen has 59 solo tackles in 3 years of college ball.  People think that because he can cover, he's a plug and play 3 down LB, but you've got to play the run to be a true 3 down LB.  

I dont follow every draft site, but TDN scouts say he does a good job at stuffing the run and is explosive. He was the attack lb for lsu with his short area quickness.

I dont know where you get your info at.

[Whatever]

(02-25-2020, 03:17 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I dont follow every draft site, but TDN scouts say he does a good job at stuffing the run and is explosive. He was the attack lb for lsu with his short area quickness.

I dont know where you get your info at.

In TDN's Mock Draft Machine, Queen was a 6th-7th round. guy until after the CFP. They are just another site pumping him up based on his bowl games.

TDN, are also the ones comparing him to Myles Jack and Roquan Smith.  Jack has an average PFF grade of 64.7 over 4 years. Smith has an average grade of 57.5.  Knowing the caliber of pro players they became, would you draft Jack or Smith at 33 this year?  If you wouldn't, then why would you draft Queen there?

So you've got a one year starter with poor overall production who was seen as a late round flyer until the bowl games who is drawing comps to two other overrated and overdrafted  prospects.  You shouldn't walk away from this kid, you should run 

[BURROWorBUST]

(02-23-2020, 11:42 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Assuming the bengals are going to address the defensive problems starting in round 2, I think they will have a lot of talented players to choose from. I think we will all be satisfied if they pick any of these guys:

Patrick Queen who is a 3 down linebacker
Kenneth Murray who has incredible sideline to sideline speed.
Ross blacklock, a raw talent who could develop into a foundation piece to the defensive line after Atkins.
Damon Arnette, a solid DB with good ball skills.

Do not sleep on Zach Baun. Lou Anarumo plays a hybrid defense and he needs a edge/lb who can shift positions depending on what front they want to show. He can rush the passer standing up or down, drop into coverage, set the edge and help stop the run. He did all of that at Wisconson and Lou will put a premium on a guy who can do it naturally. Absolutely do not be surprised if Zach is the pick at 33.

Depends on what we do with Dre K and what we do in FA. If we sign a CB in FA, then Baun would be my pick for the reasons you cite. If not, gotta go with Arnette. Phillips showed some upside last year, but it's still uncertain if he can be a full time starter. 

[sandwedge]

(02-25-2020, 07:08 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: Depends on what we do with Dre K and what we do in FA. If we sign a CB in FA, then Baun would be my pick for the reasons you cite. If not, gotta go with Arnette. Phillips showed some upside last year, but it's still uncertain if he can be a full time starter. 

I would almost sprint to the podium if Baun was there at #33. As an admitted OSU homer, I wouldn't be thrilled if we grabbed Arnette at #33. He got away with stuff, grabbing and arm bars, that he won't get away with in the NFL. I'd take Jordan Fuller at S in the later rounds and be happy as hell though!

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-25-2020, 05:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: In TDN's Mock Draft Machine, Queen was a 6th-7th round. guy until after the CFP. They are just another site pumping him up based on his bowl games.

TDN, are also the ones comparing him to Myles Jack and Roquan Smith.  Jack has an average PFF grade of 64.7 over 4 years. Smith has an average grade of 57.5.  Knowing the caliber of pro players they became, would you draft Jack or Smith at 33 this year?  If you wouldn't, then why would you draft Queen there?

So you've got a one year starter with poor overall production who was seen as a late round flyer until the bowl games who is drawing comps to two other overrated and overdrafted  prospects.  You shouldn't walk away from this kid, you should run 

It's not just TDN saying he us a late day 1 to early day 2 pick. 

He lacks experience but he has all the tools to be a starting 3 down LB In the NFL. He also is compared to Kwon Alexander. I think you worry too much

[Whatever]

(02-25-2020, 09:20 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: It's not just TDN saying he us a late day 1 to early day 2 pick. 

He lacks experience but he has all the tools to be a starting 3 down LB In the NFL. He also is compared to Kwon Alexander. I think you worry too much

Kwon Alexander had a 31.6 PFF grade as a rookie.  He had 27 missed tackles that year, which was a record for a LB in 9 years of grading, and he didn't play in 4 games.  He had a 61.3 grade this year.  Is Queen ever going to get compared to somebody who's actually good?  

[Jason_NC]

I really don't think either Queen or Murray will make it to 33. And I also think a CB might be a better value. We need both. But I think I want a RT if one is there worth the pick. Or if things aren't looking good to sign AJ long term, maybe a WR if one is there with deep speed.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-26-2020, 08:35 AM)Jason_NC Wrote: I really don't think either Queen or Murray will make it to 33.  And I also think a CB might be a better value.  We need both.  But I think I want a RT if one is there worth the pick.  Or if things aren't looking good to sign AJ long term, maybe a WR if one is there with deep speed.

You may be right. I'm assuming Queen goes to Baltimore and murray could go before that. I think Baun or CB if we are forcing D. 

But I'd rather go BPA because there is almost always a player who drops from 1.

[Bilbo Saggins]

I looked at Baun more closely and he has an interesting blend of characteristics.  His getoff and initial quickness look very good.  He's the type of guy who might do well in a Dick LeBeau style of defense.  The issues that I see are with his length, flexibility, and positional fit.  He's not going to be a 3 down base end and might get eaten alive in coverage if he's tasked with being a stand up linebacker on first and second down.  This team doesn't have a good history with the tweener types, though Baun could do well in a blitz happy defense.  With the two foot injuries - pass imo.  If Kinlaw or Epenesa were there at 33 I think that you sprint to the podium, but aside from a shocker like that I don't see great relative value for the pass rushers who will be there in that range.

[*Synric*]

(02-26-2020, 01:15 AM)Whatever Wrote: Kwon Alexander had a 31.6 PFF grade as a rookie.  He had 27 missed tackles that year, which was a record for a LB in 9 years of grading, and he didn't play in 4 games.  He had a 61.3 grade this year.  Is Queen ever going to get compared to somebody who's actually good?  

I think you taking the comparisons way to literal...Queen shows alot of things to like on tape speed quickness physicality instincts very nice punch for a smaller guy. I could argue that he was the second best defender on the LSU defense ahead of Delpit, Fulton, and Chaisson (behind only Stingley). His biggest issue right now is just getting more playing time since he was really only the starter for part of the season.

But if you have to have a player comparison Zeirlin has him compared to very good long time Panther linebacker (Chargers in 2019) Thomas Davis.

[*Synric*]

Akeem Davis-Gaither weighed in 224 which is 5 pounds higher than the Senior Bowl.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-26-2020, 11:46 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I looked at Baun more closely and he has an interesting blend of characteristics.  His getoff and initial quickness look very good.  He's the type of guy who might do well in a Dick LeBeau style of defense.  The issues that I see are with his length, flexibility, and positional fit.  He's not going to be a 3 down base end and might get eaten alive in coverage if he's tasked with being a stand up linebacker on first and second down.  This team doesn't have a good history with the tweener types, though Baun could do well in a blitz happy defense.  With the two foot injuries - pass imo.  If Kinlaw or Epenesa were there at 33 I think that you sprint to the podium, but aside from a shocker like that I don't see great relative value for the pass rushers who will be there in that range.

I know that our scouts are going to pay close attention to the lbs and corners at this combine. I am sure they are going to pay close attention to Baun and tge big names. As long as his measurables are good and he passes his medicals theres a really good chance he 7s a bengal. 

And Gaither coming in 5lbs heav8ear seems like a good thing?

[MentalRage]

Add CB Jeff Gladney to the mix.