PFF on draft success '06-'16

[Hoofhearted]

Steelers were 19th but won two Super Bowls since 06? Can someone please explain how this makes sense?

[fredtoast]

(03-09-2020, 09:11 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Steelers were 19th but won two Super Bowls since 06? Can someone please explain how this makes sense?

Steelers only won one Super Bowl since '06.  It was in '08 and most of the stars on that team had been drafted before '06.

Even the 2010 team that lost to the Packers only had 7 starters drafted after '06.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-09-2020, 09:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Steelers only won one Super Bowl since '06.  It was in '08 and most of the stars on that team had been drafted before '06.

Even the 2010 team that lost to the Packers only had 7 starters drafted after '06.

Oh right Ben was 04. Still AB was 10, Juju was in 17. Their WR war has to be crazy high. Pair that with pig Ben makes sense

[impactplaya]

(03-09-2020, 08:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sample has good agility and athleticism.  Here is how he ranked among TEs at the 2019 combine.

5th in 3 come
5th in 60 yd shuttle
6th in short shuttle
8th in vertical
9th in broad jump
9th in 40 yd

He also has soft hands and a high football IQ.

Plus he is 6'5", 255.

I don't know why everyone seems to think he is trash.

Those times are nice and all. But his play on Sundays told me 
The game was too big for him. He was over matched. His play was underwhelming 
Follow me here Fred 
When a new coach comes in with new coaches under him...it's imperative that in that 1st draft they hit on as many draft picks 
As they can in order to right the ship again 
Marvin's 1st draft was very instrumental in getting the Bengals 
A relevant franchise 
Zac Taylors 1st was a colassial failure 
And drafting Sample in Rd 2 is a "Sample" of that failure 
If Sample was a 7th RD pick you can live with non productive 
Rookie year 
But when you are a franchise that builds its roster through the 
Draft with sprinkles of free agent signing 
You cant afford to swing and miss on 2nd RD picks 
TE was not a position that needed to be addressed in RD 2.
Sample wasnt even a dominant pass catcher in college 
With Carter Uzomah in front of him where is Sample going to get playing time ? ( I didn't even bring up Eifert if he returns )
Face it Fred Sample sucks at this point 
Every team whiffs on high draft picks ....even the Bengals 

[bengaloo]

(03-09-2020, 10:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Those times are nice and all. But his play on Sundays told me 
The game was too big for him. He was over matched. His play was underwhelming 
Follow me here Fred 
When a new coach comes in with new coaches under him...it's imperative that in that 1st draft they hit on as many draft picks 
As they can in order to right the ship again 
Marvin's 1st draft was very instrumental in getting the Bengals 
A relevant franchise 
Zac Taylors 1st was a colassial failure 
And drafting Sample in Rd 2 is a "Sample" of that failure 
If Sample was a 7th RD pick you can live with non productive 
Rookie year 
But when you are a franchise that builds its roster through the 
Draft with sprinkles of free agent signing 
You cant afford to swing and miss on 2nd RD picks 
TE was not a position that needed to be addressed in RD 2.
Sample wasnt even a dominant pass catcher in college 
With Carter Uzomah in front of him where is Sample going to get playing time ? ( I didn't even bring up Eifert if he returns )
Face it Fred Sample sucks at this point 
Every team whiffs on high draft picks ....even the Bengals 

Who's Fred Sample? Lol jk... I pretty much agree here with the Sample pick. It seemed sort of ok when they talked about him being a great blocking TE, etc, but overall he was a huge reach we could've gotten later. The little he played he didnt block good or didnt do much really. Maybe he could step up and improve, but you are pretty much right about Zac's first draft being a failure, at least in his 1st season. I can see Jonah, Jordan and Pratt shifting the balance scale a bit over the next year or 2, maybe even one of those RBs, but the Sample thing is pretty underwhelming and he looks more like a head scratcher so far.

Ive thought the whole time that this is the offseason that is going to really say a lot about our coaches. Waiting for Zac to coach in the SB was a big setback. Hardly any time to learn what we have, what we need and put together an offseason scouting plan. Lou walked in just in time to sign and leave for the combine. There are no excuses this year though. They know what we have and what we need. This offseason could define the team for many years either way. I hope they hit a home run. Staring at Burrow in the 1st is pretty damn encouraging.

[Whatever]

(03-09-2020, 10:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Those times are nice and all. But his play on Sundays told me 
The game was too big for him. He was over matched. His play was underwhelming 
Follow me here Fred 
When a new coach comes in with new coaches under him...it's imperative that in that 1st draft they hit on as many draft picks 
As they can in order to right the ship again 
Marvin's 1st draft was very instrumental in getting the Bengals 
A relevant franchise 
Zac Taylors 1st was a colassial failure 
And drafting Sample in Rd 2 is a "Sample" of that failure 
If Sample was a 7th RD pick you can live with non productive 
Rookie year 
But when you are a franchise that builds its roster through the 
Draft with sprinkles of free agent signing 
You cant afford to swing and miss on 2nd RD picks 
TE was not a position that needed to be addressed in RD 2.
Sample wasnt even a dominant pass catcher in college 
With Carter Uzomah in front of him where is Sample going to get playing time ? ( I didn't even bring up Eifert if he returns )
Face it Fred Sample sucks at this point 
Every team whiffs on high draft picks ....even the Bengals 

In McVay's 1st draft with the Rams, they didn't have a 1st and spent their 2nd rounder on TE Gerald Everett, who didn't do much as a rookie.

Drafts aren't graded until years later.  Sample wasn't impressive as a rookie, but that doesn't make him a bust or the draft necessarily bad.  

[Circleville Guy]

(03-09-2020, 07:58 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Ok, just fill me in here since I'm new to the boards. Is this gum reference towards Fred's evaluations or towards the Bengals once good drafts? Lol
BTW, I did love the taste as soon as it hit my mouth, but it did fade very quickly! Lmao

I was just giving Fred a hard time. It’s all in fun. Sometimes it feels too serious on here.

[impactplaya]

(03-09-2020, 11:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: In McVay's 1st draft with the Rams, they didn't have a 1st and spent their 2nd rounder on TE Gerald Everett, who didn't do much as a rookie.

Drafts aren't graded until years later.  Sample wasn't impressive as a rookie, but that doesn't make him a bust or the draft necessarily bad.  

The Rams also are much more active in free agency.
The Bengals philosophy is to build their roster through the Draft 
And add a couple pieces in FA who are 3rd tier FA. 
In this day and age of the NFL.your 2nd RD pick  is expected to 
Play Meaningful snaps right away. Not wait and see 3 years down the road 
If you need a couple years to see if it validates your 2nd RD pick
Then he wasnt really worth the pick anyway 
At best Sample is a 3rd TE in jumbo red zone package 

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-09-2020, 07:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Never judge a player based on his rookie season.  Way too many examples of really good players who did nothing their first season.

Also interesting to note that many of the fans who complain the loudest about Sample wanted us to use that 2nd round pick on a guy who was not taken until the fifth round (Mack Wilson).  They have no idea how real NFL teams rate these players.

Sounds like fans are smarter than you give them credit for. Even though I wiffed on Mack.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-09-2020, 11:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: In McVay's 1st draft with the Rams, they didn't have a 1st and spent their 2nd rounder on TE Gerald Everett, who didn't do much as a rookie.

Drafts aren't graded until years later.  Sample wasn't impressive as a rookie, but that doesn't make him a bust or the draft necessarily bad.  

Sample showed absolutely nothing. I’ve seen this movie before , ( Ross , ogbuehi, Fisher , etc).

[fredtoast]

(03-09-2020, 10:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Those times are nice and all. But his play on Sundays told me 
The game was too big for him. He was over matched. His play was underwhelming 

You have no clue what type of career he will have.

Want to see a list of twenty great NFL players who did nothing as a rookie?

[fredtoast]

(03-10-2020, 12:39 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Sounds like fans are smarter than you give them credit for.   

Yeah.  

Smart enough to scream for a us to take a fifth round plyer in the second round.

[fredtoast]

(03-10-2020, 12:47 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Sample showed absolutely nothing.   I’ve seen this movie before , ( Ross , ogbuehi, Fisher , etc).

William Jackson, Andre Smith, Dre Kirkpatrick, Mo Sanu?

[Whatever]

(03-10-2020, 12:31 AM)impactplaya Wrote: The Rams also are much more active in free agency.
The Bengals philosophy is to build their roster through the Draft 
And add a couple pieces in FA who are 3rd tier FA. 
In this day and age of the NFL.your 2nd RD pick  is expected to 
Play Meaningful snaps right away. Not wait and see 3 years down the road 
If you need a couple years to see if it validates your 2nd RD pick
Then he wasnt really worth the pick anyway 
At best Sample is a 3rd TE in jumbo red zone package 

With Eifert and Uzomah on the roster, Sample was obviously not drafted to play a lot as a rookie.  He was drafted to develop.  Just because you think they should have drafted a guy to play a lot of snaps immediately doesn't mean it's a bad pick.  We'll see in a year or two. If Sample makes 3 straight All Pro  teams, are you still going to say he wasn't worth the pick because he didn't make an impact as a rookie?

[Whatever]

(03-10-2020, 09:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: William Jackson, Andre Smith, Dre Kirkpatrick, Mo Sanu?

Chad, TJ, Carl Pickens, Hopkins...

[Sanforbd]

(03-10-2020, 09:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah.  

Smart enough to scream for a us to take a fifth round plyer in the second round.

But we took a fifth round player in the second round anyway... when would Sample have been drafted if the Bungles hadn't reached for him? 5th? 6th? Undrafted? 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-09-2020, 11:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: In McVay's 1st draft with the Rams, they didn't have a 1st and spent their 2nd rounder on TE Gerald Everett, who didn't do much as a rookie.

Drafts aren't graded until years later.  Sample wasn't impressive as a rookie, but that doesn't make him a bust or the draft necessarily bad.  

It has a lot to do with knowing the team could have potentially been back in contention if they got a new coaching scheme and guys who could contribute immediately, not guys who might be good in a few years.

Bengals fans did not want a decline from 2018, they wanted an improvement.
Drafting players in the 2nd round who end up 3rd on the depth chart doesn't really give immediate improvement.

[fredtoast]

(03-10-2020, 11:33 AM)Sanforbd Wrote: But we took a fifth round player in the second round anyway... when would Sample have been drafted if the Bungles hadn't reached for him? 5th? 6th? Undrafted? 

He could very well have been drafted by another team in the 2nd round.  You have no idea how other NFL teams graded him.

It is funny how when a player is drafted higher than the "draft experts" predict everyone says the team was wrong, but when a player gets drafte much later than all the "draft experts" predict no one says that all 32 NFL teams were wrong.  The fact is that all the draft experts could have been just as wrong about Sample as they were about Mack Wilson.  There was a whole crowd of people here calling for us to draft Wilson in the 2nd or 3rd when he was actually a 5th round pick.

[Destro]

Yet, they still haven't won in the playoffs and had the worst record last year. That rating of #11 means little. Sure the moped has better fuel economy than a Tahoe, but it won't get me to work any faster and sucks in the snow.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-09-2020, 07:37 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It's been a rough few years, but the Bengals have, generally, been very good at drafting. We used to routinely find major contributors in the 4th or later rounds (see: Atkins, Boling, Jones, Iloka, Uzomah, Tate).   

I'm looking forward to us rebounding in 2020. We are in prime position to have an absolutely phenomenal draft. This draft is deep as hell and we have first pick of the players that drop out of each round :). Essentially we have 2 first round picks, with #33 often being highly valued because of the break between the first and second round allowing for a lot of thought, evaluation and potential trade decisions.

Just please...No more Drew Sample style picks...We need value at every single slot. Don't reach for need or "pet players." Honestly, I'm not even sure if Sample fits those descriptions, but he was...something. Something that we definitely shouldn't do this year.

Well said CJD, we are in a great position going into this Draft especially if we use Free Agency correctly and add a few 
players to take away our weaknesses to open the Draft up. I am thinking we go LB for sure in FA as this Draft is really
deep at WR and inside O-lineman.