Patriots jump to the lead for Dalton

[Bengalstripes9]

Bill likes players that don't bring too much attention to themselves and are team oriented. Someone purely focused on practice, preparation, etc. I just don't see Cam being Bill's kinda guy. He'll go for a studious QB, a team first guy, a leader. A guy that will do anything to win. And be really serious about his job. A guy who does his job, and on to the next play. Cam's not an on to the next play kinda guy necessarily. He likes to have fun. I'm not saying Cam isn't a team first guy or a leader, but..I just don't see it. Dalton seems more like his kind of QB--for now. He'd buy into Bill's program, and be really serious about it. Dalton doesn't have the injury risks Cam does, he's a smarter QB. I think Dalton could be very successful in NE if they get another weapon or two. It'll be interesting to see what happens, and who Bill picks for his long-term successor to Brady.

[Bengalstripes9]

What if - follow me here, it’s a HUGE stretch - the #Bears didn’t trade for Dalton because there was already a deal in principle with #Patriots to trade Dalton for Thuney and they just had to wait for him to sign his tender. #Bengals pic.twitter.com/KJLySUp6U4

— Ryan Yunt (@Ryan_sovah_Yunt) March 19, 2020

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Saw this on Twitter. This a possibility?
Do they have to wait for Thuney to sign his franchise tag contract to announce it?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-19-2020, 09:58 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Bill likes players that don't bring too much attention to themselves and are team oriented. Someone purely focused on practice, preparation, etc. I just don't see Cam being Bill's kinda guy. He'll go for a studious QB, a team first guy, a leader. A guy that will do anything to win. And be really serious about his job. A guy who does his job, and on to the next play. Cam's not an on to the next play kinda guy necessarily. He likes to have fun. I'm not saying Cam isn't a team first guy or a leader, but..I just don't see it. Dalton seems more like his kind of QB--for now. He'd buy into Bill's program, and be really serious about it. Dalton doesn't have the injury risks Cam does, he's a smarter QB. I think Dalton could be very successful in NE if they get another weapon or two. It'll be interesting to see what happens, and who Bill picks for his long-term successor to Brady.

Feel the same about Billy B and Cam, just doesn't fit to me at all.

[*Nately120*]

Dalton mentoring Burrow is worth more than a 5th round pick in the long term...maybe. If we don't trade Dalton he's going to be mad, but his version of mad is probably saying "oh fiddlesticks" and then feeling badly for doing so.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(03-19-2020, 10:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Dalton mentoring Burrow is worth more than a 5th round pick in the long term...maybe. If we don't trade Dalton he's going to be mad, but his version of mad is probably saying "oh fiddlesticks" and then feeling badly for doing so.

You really think the Front Office sees the Joe Burrow - Andy Dalton dynamic as parallel to Carson Palmer - Jon Kitna?

[BURROWorBUST]

(03-19-2020, 05:42 PM)McC Wrote: I think the spectre of last year without AJ hanging over PBS and the next QB making a point of saying bring him back and the HC making many statements about how excited he is to have AJ back all but eliminates the idea of including AJ in any trade for this year.

Yeah, you're probably right about that. It's hard to think of any rookie who could come in and replace AJ. How many rookie WRs have ever begun their careers as well as AJ did his? Not many. And he's only gotten better. I hope we get a deal done with him sooner than later. 

[coachmcneil71]

(03-19-2020, 09:58 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Bill likes players that don't bring too much attention to themselves and are team oriented. Someone purely focused on practice, preparation, etc. I just don't see Cam being Bill's kinda guy. He'll go for a studious QB, a team first guy, a leader. A guy that will do anything to win. And be really serious about his job. A guy who does his job, and on to the next play. Cam's not an on to the next play kinda guy necessarily. He likes to have fun. I'm not saying Cam isn't a team first guy or a leader, but..I just don't see it. Dalton seems more like his kind of QB--for now. He'd buy into Bill's program, and be really serious about it. Dalton doesn't have the injury risks Cam does, he's a smarter QB. I think Dalton could be very successful in NE if they get another weapon or two. It'll be interesting to see what happens, and who Bill picks for his long-term successor to Brady.

Agree mostly, but he did tolerate Aaron Hernandez, and Gronk for quite some time. That's not that far of a jump from stone to stone.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Agree mostly, but he did tolerate Aaron Hernandez, and Gronk for quite some time. That's not that far of a jump from stone to stone.

They brought in AB too lets not forget...

[Gamma Ray Tan]

Now that Thuney signed his offer....this can happen. From NESN.

3. Trade Thuney.
If the Patriots can find a partner for Thuney, who was expected to have a strong market in free agency, they can offload his salary and land a draft pick or player in return. This would free up the most salary cap space but would create another roster hole without an obvious choice to fill it. Hjalte Froholdt, a 2019 fourth-rounder, is New England’s top internal candidate to replace Thuney, and he has yet to play in a regular-season game. If the Patriots do choose to move Thuney, they’ll likely ask for at least a third-round pick in return, as that’s what they likely would have received had the 27-year-old left as a free agent

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2020/03/joe-thuney-signs-patriots-franchise-tender-heres-what-that-means/


My prediction: Patriots get Dalton and pick (65) - Bengals get Thuney and pick (87)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-19-2020, 11:22 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Now that Thuney signed his offer....this can happen. From NESN.

3. Trade Thuney.
If the Patriots can find a partner for Thuney, who was expected to have a strong market in free agency, they can offload his salary and land a draft pick or player in return. This would free up the most salary cap space but would create another roster hole without an obvious choice to fill it. Hjalte Froholdt, a 2019 fourth-rounder, is New England’s top internal candidate to replace Thuney, and he has yet to play in a regular-season game. If the Patriots do choose to move Thuney, they’ll likely ask for at least a third-round pick in return, as that’s what they likely would have received had the 27-year-old left as a free agent

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2020/03/joe-thuney-signs-patriots-franchise-tender-heres-what-that-means/


My prediction: Patriots get Dalton and pick (65) - Bengals get Thuney and pick (87)

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Agree mostly, but he did tolerate Aaron Hernandez, and Gronk for quite some time. That's not that far of a jump from stone to stone.

True, but that's a different position too. I guarantee Bill's number one evaluation when it comes to quarterbacks is intelligence. Cam is athletically gifted, and really a good QB when healthy. But I just don't think he's wired right to handle everything Bill and co. throw at him. He has an injury history as well. I just don't see it. But hey, you never know what's going to happen in today's world. Strange things are happening all the time.

I don't think Dalton is as smart as Burrow. Nor does he have the pocket awareness or vision of Tom Brady. But he's the best option out there right now to fit what I think Bill wants in a QB. He's proven when he has protection and good weapons that he can put up pro-bowl numbers. He's smart. He's accurate. He's been a top 15 QB in this league most of his career. 

He's the perfect bridge QB until they find a new dynasty QB. Heck, he could even be highly successful, like he was in 2015. Cam has already peaked. With better coaching I think Dalton could do better than he has. 

If things don't work out, they can just blame Dalton too, and try again with a new QB. The Pats are not who they were though. They were much more talented in the early 2000s. How they won the last few super bowls is a testament to their coaching and Brady.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Agree mostly, but he did tolerate Aaron Hernandez, and Gronk for quite some time. That's not that far of a jump from stone to stone.

(03-19-2020, 11:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: They brought in AB too lets not forget...

Everyone gets more leeway when they are the best in the league at their position.

[McC]

(03-19-2020, 11:22 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Now that Thuney signed his offer....this can happen. From NESN.

3. Trade Thuney.
If the Patriots can find a partner for Thuney, who was expected to have a strong market in free agency, they can offload his salary and land a draft pick or player in return. This would free up the most salary cap space but would create another roster hole without an obvious choice to fill it. Hjalte Froholdt, a 2019 fourth-rounder, is New England’s top internal candidate to replace Thuney, and he has yet to play in a regular-season game. If the Patriots do choose to move Thuney, they’ll likely ask for at least a third-round pick in return, as that’s what they likely would have received had the 27-year-old left as a free agent

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2020/03/joe-thuney-signs-patriots-franchise-tender-heres-what-that-means/


My prediction: Patriots get Dalton and pick (65) - Bengals get Thuney and pick (87)

Well, that would be such a level of awesome that it just can't possibly happen, can it?

[McC]

(03-19-2020, 11:34 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: True, but that's a different position too. I guarantee Bill's number one evaluation when it comes to quarterbacks is intelligence. Cam is athletically gifted, and really a good QB when healthy. But I just don't think he's wired right to handle everything Bill and co. throw at him. He has an injury history as well. I just don't see it. But hey, you never know what's going to happen in today's world. Strange things are happening all the time.

I don't think Dalton is as smart as Burrow. Nor does he have the pocket awareness or vision of Tom Brady. But he's the best option out there right now to fit what I think Bill wants in a QB. He's proven when he has protection and good weapons that he can put up pro-bowl numbers. He's smart. He's accurate. He's been a top 15 QB in this league most of his career. 

He's the perfect bridge QB until they find a new dynasty QB. Heck, he could even be highly successful, like he was in 2015. Cam has already peaked. With better coaching I think Dalton could do better than he has. 

If things don't work out, they can just blame Dalton too, and try again with a new QB. The Pats are not who they were though. They were much more talented in the early 2000s. How they won the last few super bowls is a testament to their coaching and Brady.

The big thing people always say about Bill's offense is how complicated it is for a new guy to grasp.  There have been guys who couldn't make it there for this reason.  Maybe the time has come to change it.  Look what having an athletically gifted QB and a relatively simple offense did for the Ratbirds who, incidentally, ran roughshod over the Pats and their top ranked defense this year.

Now you have no OTA's and who knows how much of a TC and you're gonna go to a new QB?

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-20-2020, 12:07 AM)McC Wrote: The big thing people always say about Bill's offense is how complicated it is for a new guy to grasp.  There have been guys who couldn't make it there for this reason.  Maybe the time has come to change it.  Look what having an athletically gifted QB and a relatively simple offense did for the Ratbirds who, incidentally, ran roughshod over the Pats and their top ranked defense this year.

Now you have no OTA's and who knows how much of a TC and you're gonna go to a new QB?

They have sustained success for a reason. I dont see them having the time to swap their entire system this year to put together an offense for Cam. What happens if he gets injured? Can the backup run that offense?

Dalton can be the guy to take control of their offense. If he gets injured, their backup has been in the system for a year now. Makes the most sense.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Agree mostly, but he did tolerate Aaron Hernandez, and Gronk for quite some time. That's not that far of a jump from stone to stone.

And Randy Moss.

[McC]

(03-20-2020, 12:14 AM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: They have sustained success for a reason. I dont see them having the time to swap their entire system this year to put together an offense for Cam. What happens if he gets injured? Can the backup run that offense?

Dalton can be the guy to take control of their offense. If he gets injured, their backup has been in the system for a year now. Makes the most sense.

It's not just Cam.  It's anybody.  They will be having a different QB this year and that is a fact.  As of right now, Stidham is the only guy who knows the master offense that struggled to even score last year.  If he's the guy then all this talk means nothing.

Don't forget.  They also have to pull some weapons out of their ass too.  If Brady looked like hell with the weapons they have, just what is Stidham or a new QB with no time to grasp the ungraspable offense gonna look like?  I think I can gleefully say the patriots ain't winning jack shit this year.

Bill lost to three teams with athletic offenses and Fitz, who can do some damage with his legs and almost lost to a fourth.   You think he didn't take note of that?  You run the same offense for twenty years, the idea of switching it up doesn't seem so far fetched.

[Jojo the Circus Boy]

(03-19-2020, 11:22 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Now that Thuney signed his offer....this can happen. From NESN.

3. Trade Thuney.
If the Patriots can find a partner for Thuney, who was expected to have a strong market in free agency, they can offload his salary and land a draft pick or player in return. This would free up the most salary cap space but would create another roster hole without an obvious choice to fill it. Hjalte Froholdt, a 2019 fourth-rounder, is New England’s top internal candidate to replace Thuney, and he has yet to play in a regular-season game. If the Patriots do choose to move Thuney, they’ll likely ask for at least a third-round pick in return, as that’s what they likely would have received had the 27-year-old left as a free agent

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2020/03/joe-thuney-signs-patriots-franchise-tender-heres-what-that-means/


My prediction: Patriots get Dalton and pick (65) - Bengals get Thuney and pick (87)

Not one for "conspiracy theories" but Thuney is the first player to sign his tender this year. Possibly a sign and trade scenario. Add in the Bengals being more active this offseason, the Bears giving a 4th rounder in a trade for Foles (a price most of us would be happy to get for Dalton) and maybe, just maybe, I had enough bourbon tonight to believe it could happen

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-20-2020, 12:18 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And Randy Moss.

I thought about moss too. And chad johnson. Again, neither play quarterback. The quarterback has to be smart and businesslike in that system. He has to be a total team player and solely focused on winning. The Patriots way.

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-20-2020, 12:24 AM)McC Wrote: It's not just Cam.  It's anybody.  They will be having a different QB this year and that is a fact.  As of right now, Stidham is the only guy who knows the master offense that struggled to even score last year.  If he's the guy then all this talk means nothing.

Don't forget.  They also have to pull some weapons out of their ass too.  If Brady looked like hell with the weapons they have, just what is Stidham or a new QB with no time to grasp the ungraspable offense gonna look like?  I think I can gleefully say the patriots ain't winning jack shit this year.

Bill lost to three teams with athletic offenses and Fitz, who can do some damage with his legs and almost lost to a fourth.   You think he didn't take note of that?  You run the same offense for twenty years, the idea of switching it up doesn't seem so far fetched.

Oh i totally agree. The pats offense needs weapons desperately. But have you watched that offense evolve over the years? A more traditional offense when they won their first super bowls, then they try to add moss, then built around the slot receiver welker. Then they switch it up and go to 2 tight end sets with gronk and hernandez, then lately what they did with edelman, amendola and gronk.

Their system will evolve. They need more weapons. With all the weapons available in the draft i bet bill has a creative way to evolve again this year.

I just dont think an aging mobile qb with injury issues is the way forward.
Most coaches shy away from that approach bc the success can’t be sustained as long due to injury risk.

I hope the pats suck this year but i wouldnt bet against them. If they do tank this year they’ll come back better then ever.

I do think bill learned from getting beat by mobile qbs. I bet he’ll adjust his defense. But i dont think he’d reshape his offense with an old and injured mobile qb. It would have to be a young one if he wanted to give it a shot. But again, odds are it wouldnt last long due to injury.