Patriots jump to the lead for Dalton

[muskiesfan]

(03-21-2020, 06:45 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals have all the way to to week 1 and game 1 to trade/cut AD.

Bengals gain nothing right now (cap wise) by cutting AD. 

So, I say be patient and see what happens. Why panic? Why cut him for nothing when nothing to gain?

No panic, it's simply need. They don't have to cut him this very moment, but around draft time they're going to have to start thinking about it.

From spotrac, we still have $20m in cap space. However, Reader and Alexander haven't been deducted from that yet. So after those 2, we may not even have the projected $11m necessary to sign our draft class. Multiple reports are saying the Bengals are planning on keeping Kirkpatrick which means we're not moving on from him and getting that cap relief. With rumors that they're still looking at other players and maybe considering a Mixon extension, the money has to come from somewhere.

[muskiesfan]

(03-21-2020, 07:41 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Even if we can't find someone to get Dalton it would be stupid to cut him. Just for the fact that a QB could go down on a win now team and trade for Dalton mid season. Worst comes to worst then Burrow would have someone to mentor him.

Cutting Dalton would not be stupid. After an active free agency, the Bengals are going to need to have money for their draft class, a Mixon extension (if they are going to try), and any other player they may have interest in.

From spotrac, we have $20m in cap remaining but that doesn't add in Reader and Alexander yet. Our draft class is projected at roughly $11m and change. If the team is truly planning on keeping Kirkpatrick like many outlets have reported, the money is going to have to come from somewhere and cutting Dalton adds over $17m.

I'm a big Dalton fan. It's not like I want to cut him for the sake of getting him out of town. Financially, his contract has to go.

[*Nately120*]

(03-22-2020, 04:33 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s perfectly reasonable to bring up our FA moves when that’s literally the single biggest criticism both our fans and outside sources constantly bring up.

You’re allowed to say something positive about the team. It won’t kill you.

I've pointed out that these signings are a positive sign.  Plus our biggest issue in our 4 year slide has been either our lousy drafting or hiring coaches with dismal resumes. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-22-2020, 11:25 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I've pointed out that these signings are a positive sign.  Plus our biggest issue in our 4 year slide has been either our lousy drafting or hiring coaches with dismal resumes. 

We’ve made a bunch of good draft picks during that timeframe (Boyd, Mixon, Hubbard, Bates...), and I’ve already stated I think that blaming the coaching for everything is a bit of a cop out. If players are good enough they can overcome mediocre coaching. Hell, look at Houston. What we haven’t done the past few years is bring in actual top tier FA’s to help fill holes.

[*Nately120*]

(03-22-2020, 11:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’ve made a bunch of good draft picks during that timeframe (Boyd, Mixon, Hubbard, Bates...), and I’ve already stated I think that blaming the coaching for everything is a bit of a cop out. If players are good enough they can overcome mediocre coaching. Hell, look at Houston. What we haven’t done the past few years is bring in actual top tier FA’s to help fill holes.

I never said ALL our draft picks were awful and I'm not blaming coaching for EVERYTHING.  Oy, your inability to view my critiques and comments as anything other than overly bitter and ill-informed complaining is frustrating.

I just think it's a bit of wishful thinking to lay so much blame for 2019 at Dalton's feet, but that doesn't mean I'm all in on the bum.


I will say that arguing with you is a good way to pass the time though, so there is that.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-22-2020, 12:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I never said ALL our draft picks were awful and I'm not blaming coaching for EVERYTHING.  Oy, your inability to view my critiques and comments as anything other than overly bitter and ill-informed complaining is frustrating.

I just think it's a bit of wishful thinking to lay so much blame for 2019 at Dalton's feet, but that doesn't mean I'm all in on the bum.

Well, I’ve told you before it seems to me that’s just your shtick. I could probably count on one hand how many times you’ve said anything positive about the team without it being some sort backhanded compliment. Which is frustrating.

[*Nately120*]

(03-22-2020, 12:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, I’ve told you before it seems to me that’s just your shtick. I could probably count on one hand how many times you’ve said anything positive about the team without it being some sort backhanded compliment. Which is frustrating.

4 losing seasons in a row, a 2-14 season (and I watched every second of this stuff), and my overall frustration with the "Well, Marvin is gone so we're going to be better by default!" shtick (that's a good word, by the way) falling flat.

I predicted 8-8 in 2019 and I think Burrow is going to be awesome, so to act like I've been nothing but a sourpuss since that 2005 playoff game vs the Steelers is only partially accurate. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-22-2020, 12:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: 4 losing seasons in a row, a 2-14 season (and I watched every second of this stuff), and my overall frustration with the "Well, Marvin is gone so we're going to be better by default!" shtick (that's a good word, by the way) falling flat.

I predicted 8-8 in 2019 and I think Burrow is going to be awesome, so to act like I've been nothing but a sourpuss since that 2005 playoff game vs the Steelers is only partially accurate. 

Fair enough. I still think you’re a good poster. Despite being a sourpuss.

[*Nately120*]

(03-22-2020, 12:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Fair enough. I still think you’re a good poster. Despite being a sourpuss.

The way I see it is I'm trashing the coaching and front office and you are trashing Dalton.  That's the extreme version, but we've both got our gripes.

I try to stay a bit more centered (or at least I think so), because recalling some of us declaring Jeremy Hill to be better than Corey Dillion and giving Hill the ball being the main thing that would drag our franchise out of the pit before declaring him to be THE reason we lost in 2015 etc, is just fandom fun at it's best. ZT and 2019 was supposed to revitalize Dalton's career and yet here we are hoping that it was Dalton dragging our offense down...well, that's the simplified version but you know.

I hope for the best, but it's hard for me to not see a very real possibility that we spend the next offseason getting pumped over what Burrow will finally be able to do in a non-ZT system.

[muskiesfan]

It's been a tough time for all of us fans. Going to 2 Super Bowls was awesome. I'll never forget seeing all of the Bengals fans pumped up and so much pride in the city because of the team. I think we all thought that second one was ours.

Since Mike Brown took over, there have been a lot more down years than good years. Frustration is just running high because of 4 straight bad seasons and being the worst team in the NFL last year. How the team handled the trade deadline last year, our superstar who was only supposed to miss a couple of weeks ends up missing the entire season, another 1st round pick not playing their rookie season, the list goes on and on. Our front office constantly seems to be passive and incompetent.

At least this free agency period seems to be showing that they are realistically trying to improve. A solid DT and some additional secondary help are steps in the right direction. Hopefully we're turning a corner towards better days.

I know I am super critical of the front office, the coaching staff, and a couple of the players on occasion, but I am cautiously optimistic about where we seem to be heading. As long as we draft Burrow and continue to make positive improvements to the team, we may make it through this rebuild/re-tool/downward spiral sooner than originally thought.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-22-2020, 12:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The way I see it is I'm trashing the coaching and front office and you are trashing Dalton.  That's the extreme version, but we've both got our gripes.

I try to stay a bit more centered (or at least I think so), because recalling some of us declaring Jeremy Hill to be better than Corey Dillion and giving Hill the ball being the main thing that would drag our franchise out of the pit before declaring him to be THE reason we lost in 2015 etc, is just fandom fun at it's best. ZT and 2019 was supposed to revitalize Dalton's career and yet here we are hoping that it was Dalton dragging our offense down...well, that's the simplified version but you know.

I hope for the best, but it's hard for me to not see a very real possibility that we spend the next offseason getting pumped over what Burrow will finally be able to do in a non-ZT system.

Well, I’ve been up and down on Dalton here over the years. My very first thread I started was a pro Dalton thread believe it or not. I can link it if you don’t believe me. He had me fooled after 2015. Which was obviously an outlier. But opinions change. Players level of play change. Sports are not static.

I have never blamed everything entirely on Dalton though. He just gets a lot of it from me for his horrendous playoff games, and inability to get some pretty good teams over the hump. Maybe that’s unfair, but QB is the most important position. It’s really that simple. There’s no doubt in my mind we have at least a handful of playoff wins with a better QB. Hell, AJ freaking McCarron almost had one.

[coachmcneil71]

(03-22-2020, 03:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Brady has been injured like once in 20 years. Saints have Taysom Hill. We’re going to have to just end up cutting Dalton. It would be beyond stupid to pay a backup QB almost 18 million dollars.

Brady is old! Brees is old! Rivers is old! Sean Payton loves Hill as a gadget player. If he has to play QB, it takes away his Swiss Army knife. Shit happens!! Especially to old dudes playing a young man's game. 

I agree, it would be stupid to pay a backup QB 18 million. Ts, it's MB we're talking about. He's pretty damn loyal to guys like Andy. I think I read he would still get around 13 mill if we cut him? I'm not sure about the money part? MB seems to hate losing that dead money.

I had hoped that he would have already been traded. The FO probably asked for too much, and now they're bent over he table with this thing.

Anyways, I still think they try to salvage something with his value. I think we both agree that he needs to move on, but it remains to be seen how it will be done. The team still has some options with AD.

You sound like you are afraid of the GOAT Joe Burrow having any legit competition at the QB position?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-22-2020, 02:08 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Brady is old! Brees is old! Rivers is old! Sean Payton loves Hill as a gadget player. If he has to play QB, it takes away his Swiss Army knife. Shit happens!! Especially to old dudes playing a young man's game. 

I agree, it would be stupid to pay a backup QB 18 million. Ts, it's MB we're talking about. He's pretty damn loyal to guys like Andy. I think I read he would still get around 13 mill if we cut him? I'm not sure about the money part? MB seems to hate losing that dead money.

I had hoped that he would have already been traded. The FO probably asked for too much, and now they're bent over he table with this thing.

Anyways, I still think they try to salvage something with his value. I think we both agree that he needs to move on, but it remains to be seen how it will be done. The team still has some options with AD.

You sound like you are afraid of the GOAT Joe Burrow having any legit competition at the QB position?

LMAO

I’m pretty sure Burrow can win more than 2 games.

[McC]

(03-22-2020, 12:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Fair enough. I still think you’re a good poster. Despite being a sourpuss.

He's not a sourpuss, he's a smartass.  

[BengalChris]

(03-22-2020, 11:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’ve made a bunch of good draft picks during that timeframe (Boyd, Mixon, Hubbard, Bates...), and I’ve already stated I think that blaming the coaching for everything is a bit of a cop out. If players are good enough they can overcome mediocre coaching. Hell, look at Houston. What we haven’t done the past few years is bring in actual top tier FA’s to help fill holes.

The team has had some good draft picks over the past few years. But the first round picks have been whiffs and none of the OL picks have panned out at all. Team is still hoping and praying that it has a LT, RT is manned by a rejected backup and we've had a revolving door at the guard positions. Pratt did become a starter, but none of the other recent LB picks are starter quality.

The new coaches are trying, but they were way out of their elements last season. Maybe they'll learn how to swim this season. Last season they drowned.

 

[McC]

(03-22-2020, 02:08 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Brady is old! Brees is old! Rivers is old! Sean Payton loves Hill as a gadget player. If he has to play QB, it takes away his Swiss Army knife. Shit happens!! Especially to old dudes playing a young man's game. 

I agree, it would be stupid to pay a backup QB 18 million. Ts, it's MB we're talking about. He's pretty damn loyal to guys like Andy. I think I read he would still get around 13 mill if we cut him? I'm not sure about the money part? MB seems to hate losing that dead money.

I had hoped that he would have already been traded. The FO probably asked for too much, and now they're bent over he table with this thing.

Anyways, I still think they try to salvage something with his value. I think we both agree that he needs to move on, but it remains to be seen how it will be done. The team still has some options with AD.

You sound like you are afraid of the GOAT Joe Burrow having any legit competition at the QB position?

He doesn't have any competition.  There will be no competition if Andy is here or gone.  Especially in a year like this one will be.  No way will you be able to split reps between two QB's.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2020, 01:15 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: It's been a tough time for all of us fans. Going to 2 Super Bowls was awesome. I'll never forget seeing all of the Bengals fans pumped up and so much pride in the city because of the team. I think we all thought that second one was ours.

Since Mike Brown took over, there have been a lot more down years than good years. Frustration is just running high because of 4 straight bad seasons and being the worst team in the NFL last year. How the team handled the trade deadline last year, our superstar who was only supposed to miss a couple of weeks ends up missing the entire season, another 1st round pick not playing their rookie season, the list goes on and on. Our front office constantly seems to be passive and incompetent.

At least this free agency period seems to be showing that they are realistically trying to improve. A solid DT and some additional secondary help are steps in the right direction. Hopefully we're turning a corner towards better days.

I know I am super critical of the front office, the coaching staff, and a couple of the players on occasion, but I am cautiously optimistic about where we seem to be heading. As long as we draft Burrow and continue to make positive improvements to the team, we may make it through this rebuild/re-tool/downward spiral sooner than originally thought.

Nice post Muskies. I think we might finally come out of this dark chapter after this FA and Draft with Burrow.

We will see but I am excited for once and not just frustrated.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-22-2020, 02:33 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The team has had some good draft picks over the past few years. But the first round picks have been whiffs and none of the OL picks have panned out at all. Team is still hoping and praying that it has a LT, RT is manned by a rejected backup and we've had a revolving door at the guard positions. Pratt did become a starter, but none of the other recent LB picks are starter quality.

The new coaches are trying, but they were way out of their elements last season. Maybe they'll learn how to swim this season. Last season they drowned.

 

Disagree WJ3 was a whiff. He’s been disappointing after a very promising rookie season, but I’m not ready to give up on him yet.

[BengalChris]

(03-22-2020, 02:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Disagree WJ3 was a whiff. He’s been disappointing after a very promising rookie season, but I’m not ready to give up on him yet.

I believe the revolving door of coaches on the defensive side of the ball has hurt WJ3 a lot. He has the talent, just needs to realize it. I'm hoping things change for him this season.

 

[coachmcneil71]

(03-22-2020, 02:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: LMAO

I’m pretty sure Burrow can win more than 2 games.

Lol...Good! And, I'm glad that you took it that way. I was just messing with you with the last part.