if we have to cut Dalton

[kalibengal]

Can someone explain to me what that exactly means salary cap wise if we are forced to release him? We still have to pay out his contract but it does not count against the cap ? does some one else have to sign him and pick up his contract in order for us to not have a salary cap hit?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-28-2020, 05:56 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Can someone explain to me what that exactly means salary cap wise if we are forced to release him? We still have to pay out his contract but it does  not count against the cap ?  does some one else have to sign him and pick up his contract in order for us to not have a salary cap hit?

No. Since he carries $0 dead cap, it means the Bengals can cut him and not have to pay him anything.
He would then be free to sign with any team he wants (including back with the Bengals if he wished).

[Hoofhearted]

It's not an "if" but when. They're something like 5-6 mill over the cap with his salary and rookie contracts they'll be taking on.

[kalibengal]

(03-28-2020, 06:03 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: It's not an "if" but when. They're something like 5-6 mill over the cap with his salary and rookie contracts they'll be taking on.

Yes and hoping for that elusive trade partner which is not looking too promising right now. A little surprised NE or Jax haven't had any buzz on this.  

[Hoofhearted]

(03-28-2020, 06:10 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Yes and hoping for that elusive trade partner which is not looking too promising right now. A little surprised NE or Jax haven't had any buzz on this.  

They probably don't want to pay that much

[Pat5775]

(03-28-2020, 06:12 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: They probably don't want to pay that much

That and they’ve seen Dalton play these past 4 years. If the team can get a fourth rounder for him, they should take it and run.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-28-2020, 06:27 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: That and they’ve seen Dalton play these past 4 years. If the team can get a fourth rounder for him, they should take it and run.

I'd venture to say nobody has offered that, but who knows. I'd love to hear what sort of offers they've received. I'd say on a whim they've probably been offered a 5th or 6th.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-28-2020, 06:03 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: It's not an "if" but when. They're something like 5-6 mill over the cap with his salary and rookie contracts they'll be taking on.

According to what? 

OTC has them at $11.7m space right now not counting the Reader contract which averages $13.25m, but would also kick off another player off the Top 51, which would create an extra $675k. So $12.375m - $13.25m = only $1.125m over the cap according to OTC

Sportrac has them at $12.8m not counting Reader, so add the same $675k and subtract the $13.25m.
$13.425m - $13.25m = $175k in cap space left according to Spotrac.

- - - - - - - - -

I haven't seen anywhere say 5-6 million over, and both of those numbers are assuming that Reader doesn't have a smaller cap hit in 2020 and larger ones in later years. If that were the case, then they'd still have plenty of space.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-28-2020, 06:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: According to what? 

OTC has them at $11.7m space right now not counting the Reader contract which averages $13.25m, but would also kick off another player off the Top 51, which would create an extra $675k. So $12.375m - $13.25m = only $1.125m over the cap according to OTC

Sportrac has them at $12.8m not counting Reader, so add the same $675k and subtract the $13.25m.
$13.425m - $13.25m = $175k in cap space left according to Spotrac.

- - - - - - - - -

I haven't seen anywhere say 5-6 million over, and both of those numbers are assuming that Reader doesn't have a smaller cap hit in 2020 and larger ones in later years. If that were the case, then they'd still have plenty of space.

None of the signings are official yet as you stated, but seen that "guesstimate" on twitter. There's to many moving parts and non finalized deals to speak in any certainty.


https://twitter.com/Jake_NFL/status/1242889109602848768

[SunsetBengal]

(03-28-2020, 06:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: According to what? 

OTC has them at $11.7m space right now not counting the Reader contract which averages $13.25m, but would also kick off another player off the Top 51, which would create an extra $675k. So $12.375m - $13.25m = only $1.125m over the cap according to OTC

Sportrac has them at $12.8m not counting Reader, so add the same $675k and subtract the $13.25m.
$13.425m - $13.25m = $175k in cap space left according to Spotrac.

- - - - - - - - -

I haven't seen anywhere say 5-6 million over, and both of those numbers are assuming that Reader doesn't have a smaller cap hit in 2020 and larger ones in later years. If that were the case, then they'd still have plenty of space.

You didn't read his post correctly.  He was also including the estimated amount that they will spend on rookie contracts, in that $5-$6M over estimation.

[Wes Mantooth]

Keep in mind that Dalton and a trade partner can negoiate a new deal. Any team that aquires him isn't necessarily forced to take on his current contract. A deal can be worked in good faith that upon the trade being finalized we're signing you for x years, and x amount of money.

Andy and his agent are well aware that if he'a released he's on the open market with the 18 mil being void. It only makes for them and potentional suitors to work off that value, with guarantees, than to absorb a 1 year 18 mil 0 guarantee deal. (Ex: 2 years, 16 mil, 7.5 guaranteed).

[Luvnit2]

(03-28-2020, 08:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You didn't read his post correctly.  He was also including the estimated amount that they will spend on rookie contracts, in that $5-$6M over estimation.

Bengals do not have to be in hurry to sign the rookies as likely nothing happens in NFL on the field until June. Also, Bengals could restructure contracts of guys like Dunlap or Geno or could sign Green to a longer term deal and spread the cap out.


They could also trade/cut other like Kirkpatrick to save cap dollars.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-28-2020, 08:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You didn't read his post correctly.  He was also including the estimated amount that they will spend on rookie contracts, in that $5-$6M over estimation.

The problem with simply adding the entire rookie pool to cap spent, which Hobson and many others do, is that they often don't consider, or account for future cuts, to make room for said rookies.

Will the entire rookie class make 11.x mil dollars? Yes.

Will all rookies make the main 55 roster? No.

Will all rookies be in the top 51 (now top 53) of salaries that count against the cap? No.

Will rookies on the practice squad count? No.

Will there be veterans released in training camp who come off the books?  Yes.

Many times Hobson and others use simple math to earmark x amount of dollars. And while technically correct, they completely gloss over the fact that we cant have 63 guys count against the cap.

Training camp cuts happen. Rookies come in, vets go out. There's no true number of dollars needed until that plays out.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-28-2020, 08:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals do not have to be in hurry to sign the rookies as likely nothing happens in NFL on the field until June. Also, Bengals could restructure contracts of guys like Dunlap or Geno or could sign Green to a longer term deal and spread the cap out.


They could also trade/cut other like Kirkpatrick to save cap dollars.

I don't disagree or question any of what you said.  I was simply pointing out that LL didn't read the post he was responding to correctly, in order to know where HH was basing his estimate from.  That is all.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-28-2020, 08:33 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The problem with simply adding the entire rookie pool to cap spent, which Hobson and many others do, is that they often don't consider, or account for future cuts, to make room for said rookies.

Will the entire rookie class make 11.x mil dollars? Yes.

Will all rookies make the main 55 roster? No.

Will all rookies be in the top 51 (now top 53) of salaries that count against the cap? No.

Will rookies on the practice squad count? No.

Will there be veterans released in training camp who come off the books?  Yes.

Many times Hobson and others use simple math to earmark x amount of dollars. And while technically correct, they completely gloss over the fact that we cant have 63 guys count against the cap.

Training camp cuts happen. Rookies come in, vets go out. There's no true number of dollars needed until that plays out.

Yeah man, I completely get all of that.  Like I was explaining to another poster, I was simply explaining the angle of another posters content.  As for me, I've got a pretty firm grasp on how the salary cap, current estimates, and expected actions all come into play in the process.

What it all amounts to is that until the Bengals move some existing contracts, they are done spending for the moment, as by NFL rules no team is allowed to be over the cap limit at any time.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-28-2020, 08:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals do not have to be in hurry to sign the rookies as likely nothing happens in NFL on the field until June. Also, Bengals could restructure contracts of guys like Dunlap or Geno or could sign Green to a longer term deal and spread the cap out.


They could also trade/cut other like Kirkpatrick to save cap dollars.

They can sign as they would any other year, even without having the cap space needed.  There's a specific date you need to be under by, which I think is actually in season. (Sorry, too lazy to look it up)

So yeah, no worries on delayed contracts. Like you said, cuts and restructures can, do, and will happen. They have awhile to get back under, if the new deals put their top 53 over.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-28-2020, 06:27 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: That and they’ve seen Dalton play these past 4 years. If the team can get a fourth rounder for him, they should take it and run.

Cut him for a bag of Lays Flaming hot potatoe chips.

[*jason*]

(03-28-2020, 06:10 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Yes and hoping for that elusive trade partner which is not looking too promising right now. A little surprised NE or Jax haven't had any buzz on this.  

Yeah that ain't happenin'... Nobody's giving up anything for someone they know a team needs to cut. As well as the team did in free agency, they still mishandled the situation with Dalton. They are the same boobs known as the Brown/ Blackburn family after all.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-28-2020, 09:59 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah that ain't happenin'... Nobody's giving up anything for someone they know a team needs to cut. As well as the team did in free agency, they still mishandled the situation with Dalton. They are the same boobs known as the Brown/ Blackburn family after all.

They dont have to cut him. They could decide to restructure his deal. Same with a few others. You can front load or even back load one to get this years salary down. Takes 2 though. 

Me personally? I wouldnt mind having AD one more year. But it's up to him as well.

[*jason*]

(03-28-2020, 10:29 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: They dont have to cut him. They could decide to restructure his deal. Same with a few others. You can front load or even back load one to get this years salary down. Takes 2 though. 

Me personally? I wouldnt mind having AD one more year. But it's up to him as well.

Isn't restructuring up to him too?