Will we regret Trae Waynes?

[CJD]

(04-02-2020, 11:05 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: There is no cap rolling this year.  You CANNOT ROLL CAP this year.  This FA haul had some really good players.  No apologies.  Even if they underwhelm, hats off to the ownership for going out and getting good players who can play the game of football at a high level.  They made some good moves.  You have to pay market prices if you want good FAs on your roster.

I didn't realize they stopped doing the cap rolling.

That makes more sense why we're spending all our money now, rather than rolling 10 million to next year like we usually do.

[Joelist]

This offseason we did some overpaying to start to dispel the bad reputation. If they turn around now and draft well and have a successful season it will become easier to attract free agents going forward. It's all about establishing us as a legitimate destination franchise.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-01-2020, 07:26 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: How can you regret a 3 year contract?

This right here.

I don't see how any of these contracts will really prevent us from keeping or signing guys.  Moving on from Dalton will also provide some space as well as any long term deal/release of AJ.

But the 3 year deal is hard to regret at any level.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-01-2020, 11:21 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I should have quoted it differently. It was actually Wayne's that gave up two quick TDs. I think it may have been the Saints? Rhodes went down and he got moved over to cover Thomas. It may have been Green Bay and Adams, can't remember without looking it up.

The first TD really wasn't all his fault, as the other team was already close to the redzone. They went after him immediately, and he got beat. He gave up another one later. I still like his upside though, and think he should be better than Dre K. Hell, he's probably already better than Dre.

Okay, you were talking about Waynes. Kind of thought that.

I mean, if it was against the Saints and Michael Thomas it is completely understandable.

We all know Rodgers and the Packers WR's, namely Devante Adams are tough too.

Not making excuses but that is a tough challenge for any Corner. Waynes is still young and needs to play in man more.

Think we will be going to man coverage much more, we definitely need to, these are not zone Corners.

(04-02-2020, 09:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Completely agree.  It was almost a wash for Dre's contract and it is obvious that the Bengals wanted a significant upgrade in their outside tackling.  They didn't just go to average on that measure, they went to near the top of the CB class.  And while facing the likes of Lamar Jackson and (can anyone else see the steelers drafted Jordan Love, putting him on the "juice" and trying to make him the next Mahommes?) Mayfield?  

It seems odd, also, that for the "overpayment" of Waynes, they absolutely stole Alexander in the slot CB position...a position that I think is even harder to fill than the outside CB.  

There has to be some sort of agreement with Alexander, to steal him from the Vikings like that shouldn't be that easy.

I bet we agreed to extend Alexander once we could afford it. 

The Reader and Waynes deals made this impossible at this moment.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-02-2020, 02:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Okay, you were talking about Waynes. Kind of thought that.

I mean, if it was against the Saints and Michael Thomas it is completely understandable.

We all know Rodgers and the Packers WR's, namely Devante Adams are tough too.

Not making excuses but that is a tough challenge for any Corner. Waynes is still young and needs to play in man more.

Think we will be going to man coverage much more, we definitely need to, these are not zone Corners.



There has to be some sort of agreement with Alexander, to steal him from the Vikings like that shouldn't be that easy.

I bet we agreed to extend Alexander once we could afford it. 

The Reader and Waynes deals made this impossible at this moment.

You never know.  The market for slot corners seems to be a little light these days for some reason.

I would say Waynes and Reader probably had something to do with it as former teammates.

[Stewy]

(04-01-2020, 07:24 PM)Okeana Wrote: if you look at the details of the contract its not as terrible as it sounds, but he's an upgrade to Kirkpatrick and he's still young.  Having an out in his 3rd year is a positive.  They are throwing tons of money at a slew of corners and there will be a lot of competition in the room so its exciting to see new faces.

(04-01-2020, 07:26 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: How can you regret a 3 year contract?

Look at it this way - this was the worst possible regret that they could come up with, which means, that by one random so called experts opinions, we got fairly good value.

[fredtoast]

So it would have been horrible to pay Kirkpatrick $9 million this year, but it is impossible for us to regret paying Waynes $20 million even if he is not as good?

Some of you guys crack me up.

[Jpoore]

I saw something the other day. People wanna talk about his horrible pff grade etc etc. yes he sucked in zone coverage. But in man? His grade was almost 25 points higher(53 zone 75 man)

[Circleville Guy]

It’s probably not a good value contract but he’s a decent roster upgrade and that’s a positive. It’s better than signing a guy for what he’s worth that doesn’t improve the team.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-02-2020, 05:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So it would have been horrible to pay Kirkpatrick $9 million this year, but it is impossible for us to regret paying Waynes $20 million even if he is not as good?

Some of you guys crack me up.

I think your about the only one defending Dre. You tried with some stats, but that backfired. 

Again, Trae did better with double the snaps than Dre had last year. If you go back to '18 stats, both had a good year, but Trae was still better. 

When talking money for a player, it's not our decision. It's up to tdd he Bengals if they feel a player is worth it or not and if the player is willing to come to Cincinnati in the first place. I think the Reader signing started changing players perspective of the Bengals and with Burrows coming here, Bengals are now on the up and up.

[HarleyDog]

(04-02-2020, 06:48 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote:  It's up to tdd he Bengals if they feel a player is worth it or not and if the player is willing to come to Cincinnati in the first place. 

Ahhhhhhhhh..........

Great point. It's not like we are the team ANYBODY wants to play for, so this could be an underlying issue which would make us pay more. Although, it doesnt make any sense us overpaying some guys last year who most teams didn't want? Well, unless ZT wanted his own look at these poor bastids to see if they could make them better on the cheaper side.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-02-2020, 02:16 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: You never know.  The market for slot corners seems to be a little light these days for some reason.

I would say Waynes and Reader probably had something to do with it as former teammates.

Yes thinking the same Hammerstripes.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(04-02-2020, 01:25 PM)Joelist Wrote: This offseason we did some overpaying to start to dispel the bad reputation. If they turn around now and draft well and have a successful season it will become easier to attract free agents going forward. It's all about establishing us as a legitimate destination franchise.

It’s also about generating excitement with the fan base. It’s depressing going to a game with lots of empty seats. It’s like watching a game in a tomb. You’re right: Cincinnati has not looked like a legitimate destination and this appears to be changing. Mike Brown has gone on record with respect to his loathing of free agency but he finally realized he has to mix it up with other teams and with player agents to make the Bengals better.

[coachmcneil71]

Having Phillips and Bell at S is huge. They will be able to help our CBs and I think this group of CBs looks promising. They will be hungry to prove themselves.

[The Clapp]

We have to over pay these guys. They wont stay if we don't...There was a forum post by Kevin that stated we are very thin at CB.. I believe him.. he sounds legit...

[BengalChris]

On top of what everyone else said above, if Waynes can get through the season without crashing into AJ's ankle in 7 on 7 drills then he's a big positive over Kirkpatrick.

If Waynes is an overpaid league-average corner, then Kirkpatrick was a way overpaid sub-average corner.

[HarleyDog]

(04-03-2020, 08:59 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Kirkpatrick was a way overpaid sub-average corner.

But he did create a new dance called the electric flail.

[Kingslayer]

Probably. Could have kept Dennard a lot cheaper and got about the same output but what the hell? Mikey is spending now.

He needs another 2 decades to get used to that method

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-04-2020, 12:06 AM)Kingslayer Wrote: Probably. Could have kept Dennard a lot cheaper and got about the same output but what the hell? Mikey is spending now.

He needs another 2 decades to get used to that method

Waynes plays on the outside. He replaced Dre, not Dennard.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-03-2020, 09:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: But he did create a new dance called the electric flail.

 

(04-04-2020, 12:06 AM)Kingslayer Wrote: Probably.  Could have kept Dennard a lot cheaper and got about the same output but what the hell?  Mikey is spending now.

He needs another 2 decades to get used to that method

Dennard's problem has always been staying healthy. Waynes replaced Kirkpatrick, well both Waynes and Phillips = upgrade.

(04-04-2020, 12:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Waynes plays on the outside. He replaced Dre, not Dennard.

Yeah, Mackenzie Alexander replaced Dennard in the Slot. Great move.