New culture of accountability?

[McC]

(04-02-2020, 08:45 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah... Still need to see how the draft plays out on offense, but we know AJ is a game changer for the entire unit when he's right. I know they didn't exactly beat world-beaters, but it's easy to forget the Bengals were leading division in October of 2018... I know that horrible defense bailed them outta one game, but still. They've always hovered around .500 at worst when AJ Green is available.

I think you would agree that I don't make a lot of predictions.  But I'm gonna predict this year will look a lot different than last.  As bad as last year was, he never lost the locker room and they never stopped playing hard for him. 

Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 his first year with the Cowboys and 7-9 his second year before they went on their run.  There is precedent for guys starting poorly and then getting a lot better.

[jfkbengals]

(04-02-2020, 08:55 PM)McC Wrote: I think you would agree that I don't make a lot of predictions.  But I'm gonna predict this year will look a lot different than last.  As bad as last year was, he never lost the locker room and they never stopped playing hard for him. 

Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 his first year with the Cowboys and 7-9 his second year before they went on their run.  There is precedent for guys starting poorly and then getting a lot better.

Of course you are talking about a guy who had a NCAA National Championship as a HC on his resume, compared to a guy who had never been an HC on any level.

[McC]

(04-02-2020, 09:01 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Of course you are talking about a guy who had a NCAA National Championship as a HC on his resume, compared to a guy who had never been an HC on any level.

So, wouldn't that make it less acceptable for the championship winning coach to go 1-15 than for a guy who had never been a HC to go 2-14?

[SunsetBengal]

(04-02-2020, 07:40 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, we heard how great the locker room was after Pacman and Iloka left...and we went on to win 2 games.

Talk is cheap. All that matters is results.

Well, guys like Adam Jones and George Iloka are fierce competitors, winners.  I'm sure that their attitudes and demeanor likely did piss a lot of people off in the locker room, as most of those Alpha types will get in the face of their teammates and challenge their manhood when times aren't going well.  So when they departed, I'm sure that the atmosphere became a lot more peaceful, and it showed on the field, as well.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(04-02-2020, 09:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, guys like Adam Jones and George Iloka are fierce competitors, winners.  I'm sure that their attitudes and demeanor likely did piss a lot of people off in the locker room, as most of those Alpha types will get in the face of their teammates and challenge their manhood when times aren't going well.  So when they departed, I'm sure that the atmosphere became a lot more peaceful, and it showed on the field, as well.

Ummmm, I don't see how Iloka was a "fierce competitor" nor a "winner." Jones was indeed a fierce competitor, but it's also a stretch to call him a "winner." I mean he was a key reason we lost a certain very important game. And even a year or two prior to that, he got torched by Andre Johnson that lost us a playoff game against Houston. 

The sudden nostalgia for those two guys is surprising me a bit. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Hard to buy into a culture of accountability when last offseason alone someone....
Drafted Drew Sample in the 2nd round.
Drafted Ryan Finley in the 4th round.
Signed Preston Brown to a 3 year deal.
Signed BW Webb to a 3 year deal.
Signed John Miller to a 3 year deal.
Signed Giovani Bernard to a 3 year deal.
Signed Bobby Hart to a 3 year deal.
Signed CJ Uzomah to a 3 year deal.

...and still has their job. The worst offseason arguably in franchise history, and they get to keep their job. So let me pass on buying into this culture of accountability because if it doesn't start from the top, it's merely a facade.

Also hard to enforce "accountability" when the play callers for the 26th ranked offense (30th scoring offense) and 29th ranked defense (25th ranked scoring defense) both ALSO still have their jobs.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-02-2020, 09:34 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Ummmm, I don't see how Iloka was a "fierce competitor" nor a "winner." Jones was indeed a fierce competitor, but it's also a stretch to call him a "winner." I mean he was a key reason we lost a certain very important game. And even a year or two prior to that, he got torched by Andre Johnson that lost us a playoff game against Houston. 

The sudden nostalgia for those two guys is surprising me a bit. 

Pacman was a damn good player for us. One play doesn’t change that.

[JSR18]

(04-02-2020, 07:40 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, we heard how great the locker room was after Pacman and Iloka left...and we went on to win 2 games.

Talk is cheap. All that matters is results.

Iloka? Really??

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[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-02-2020, 09:43 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Iloka? Really??

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

It was right after we moved on from him those comments were made. It was either about him or Pacman. Or both.

[JSR18]

(04-02-2020, 09:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It was right after we moved on from him those comments were made. It was either about him or Pacman. Or both.

Thanks. I'm kinda stunned. Never would've thought Iloka...

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[jfkbengals]

(04-02-2020, 09:04 PM)McC Wrote: So, wouldn't that make it less acceptable for the championship winning coach to go 1-15 than for a guy who had never been a HC to go 2-14?

Nope.  Having a successful first NFL HC season is a daunting challenge for anyone.  But getting guys to buy in and make major strides in the second season should be very feasible when you have that kind of championship resume.

I'm not saying Taylor can't or won't have a good second season, I'm just not expecting the improvement to be that drastic.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-02-2020, 09:34 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Ummmm, I don't see how Iloka was a "fierce competitor" nor a "winner." Jones was indeed a fierce competitor, but it's also a stretch to call him a "winner." I mean he was a key reason we lost a certain very important game. And even a year or two prior to that, he got torched by Andre Johnson that lost us a playoff game against Houston. 

The sudden nostalgia for those two guys is surprising me a bit. 

It's not hard to understand.  A guy like Adam Jones was more physically gifted and motivated to be the best, than his personality and mentality could accommodate   The same fire that drove him to be a great competitor, was also the same fire that was his detriment.  A guy like Iloka came up on a team with Jones and Reggie Nelson, along with the boisterous personality of Vontaze Burfict all as influences.  He developed into a classic, old school, hard hitting Safety.  (a bit too much for the trend of the modern day league, but he was just following the lead in the locker room) 

[*ochocincos*]

(04-02-2020, 06:30 PM)McC Wrote: He put blame on himself all year long.  But that doesn't fit into Fred's narrative.

I think Fred's point was that no coaches were removed because of the poor performance.

[McC]

(04-02-2020, 10:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think Fred's point was that no coaches were removed because of the poor performance.

We'll see what happens when he has the roster where he wants it.   Then it'll be fair to judge him.  I like how it's been reshaped so far.  


If we're having this conversation this time next year, then remove away.

[Benton]

(04-02-2020, 09:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hard to buy into a culture of accountability when last offseason alone someone....
Drafted Drew Sample in the 2nd round.
Drafted Ryan Finley in the 4th round.
Signed Preston Brown to a 3 year deal.
Signed BW Webb to a 3 year deal.
Signed John Miller to a 3 year deal.
Signed Giovani Bernard to a 3 year deal.
Signed Bobby Hart to a 3 year deal.
Signed CJ Uzomah to a 3 year deal.

...and still has their job. The worst offseason arguably in franchise history, and they get to keep their job. So let me pass on buying into this culture of accountability because if it doesn't start from the top, it's merely a facade.

Also hard to enforce "accountability" when the play callers for the 26th ranked offense (30th scoring offense) and 29th ranked defense (25th ranked scoring defense) both ALSO still have their jobs.

And that wasn't all zt. Just as this off-season isn't all zt.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-03-2020, 12:24 AM)Benton Wrote: And that wasn't all zt. Just as this off-season isn't all zt.

I didn't say that it was all ZT, but Tobin, Taylor, Callahan, and Anarumo collectively had arguably the worst offseason+season in Bengals history... and all 4 still have their jobs.

You can't call that a culture of accountability when there is none. That's not even touching the topic of Mike Brown.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2020, 09:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hard to buy into a culture of accountability when last offseason alone someone....
Drafted Drew Sample in the 2nd round.
Drafted Ryan Finley in the 4th round.
Signed Preston Brown to a 3 year deal.
Signed BW Webb to a 3 year deal.
Signed John Miller to a 3 year deal.
Signed Giovani Bernard to a 3 year deal.
Signed Bobby Hart to a 3 year deal.
Signed CJ Uzomah to a 3 year deal.

First of all this is the front office, not the coach.

It is too early to judge Sample and Finley.  If you disagree I'll educte you with a list of dozens of very good NFL players who did nothing as rookies.

Hart and Uzomah were not really bad signings.

 

[*jason*]

(04-03-2020, 10:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all this is the front office, not the coach.

It is too early to judge Sample and Finley.  If you disagree I'll educte you with a list of dozens of very good NFL players who did nothing as rookies.

Hart and Uzomah were not really bad signings.

 

I'll give ya Sample... Finley doesn't even seem to have the physical tools to be an NFL QB. Maybe he can get them, but I dunno.

[Sled21]

(04-02-2020, 09:04 PM)McC Wrote: So, wouldn't that make it less acceptable for the championship winning coach to go 1-15 than for a guy who had never been a HC to go 2-14?

That left a mark,,,,

[Sled21]

(04-02-2020, 09:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Pacman was a damn good player for us. One play doesn’t change that.

I still refuse to blame Pac for that play, the so called referees should not have let Jerry Porter come onto the field and into our huddle. The whole huddle should have just pummeled him into the turf. At least Pac wasn't going to let it go....