New culture of accountability?

[Whatever]

(04-02-2020, 09:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hard to buy into a culture of accountability when last offseason alone someone....
Drafted Drew Sample in the 2nd round.
Drafted Ryan Finley in the 4th round.
Signed Preston Brown to a 3 year deal.
Signed BW Webb to a 3 year deal.
Signed John Miller to a 3 year deal.
Signed Giovani Bernard to a 3 year deal.
Signed Bobby Hart to a 3 year deal.
Signed CJ Uzomah to a 3 year deal.

...and still has their job. The worst offseason arguably in franchise history, and they get to keep their job. So let me pass on buying into this culture of accountability because if it doesn't start from the top, it's merely a facade.

Also hard to enforce "accountability" when the play callers for the 26th ranked offense (30th scoring offense) and 29th ranked defense (25th ranked scoring defense) both ALSO still have their jobs.

Accountability does not mean "You made a mistake, so you lose your job.". Accountability is recognizing failings and working to fix them.  For example, they obviously recognize that they failed in FA last year, so they took a drastically different approach this year.

[Wes Mantooth]

(04-03-2020, 10:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is too early to judge Sample and Finley. 

 

I would somewhat agree with Sample. Maybe he shows something and/or develops into a decent player.  Although I'm not sure most are judging him soley on his 2019 season, but more on his overall profile and it's value. (Blocking Tight End)

Finley on the other hand... I don't think it's too early to judge him.  He has one of the weaker arms I've ever seen play here. He makes Dalton's arm strength look like Elway or Jeff George. Ryan Finley has no business being on an active roster.  The guy is a bum.

[sandwedge]

(04-03-2020, 12:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Accountability does not mean "You made a mistake, so you lose your job.". Accountability is recognizing failings and working to fix them.  For example, they obviously recognize that they failed in FA last year, so they took a drastically different approach this year.

Nice to see some common sense

[fredtoast]

(04-03-2020, 12:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Finley on the other hand... I don't think it's too early to judge him.  He has one of the weaker arms I've ever seen play here.  He makes Dalton's arm strength look like Elway or Jeff George. Ryan Finley has no business being on an active roster.  The guy is a bum.

What do you think happened to Finley's arm between preseason and when he started in the regular season?

You and everyone else here saw Finley's arm in preseason, yet you all said he had the potential to be an NFL starter.  The Bengals had to start him in the regular season to further evaluate him.

So why do you think his arm strength looked good enough in the preseason, but not when he got to start in the regular season?

[*jason*]

(04-03-2020, 12:14 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I still refuse to blame Pac for that play, the so called referees should not have let Jerry Porter come onto the field and into our huddle. The whole huddle should have just pummeled him into the turf. At least Pac wasn't going to let it go....

This is the same guy that couldn't walk away from a drunk woman running her mouth at a bar without hitting her. That was far from an isolated incident with Porter. Joey Porter is a dick, but he played the Bengals like a fiddle. We lost because of lack of poise.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(04-03-2020, 01:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What do you think happened to Finley's arm between preseason and when he started in the regular season?

You and everyone else here saw Finley's arm in preseason, yet you all said he had the potential to be an NFL starter.  The Bengals had to start him in the regular season to further evaluate him.

So why do you think his arm strength looked good enough in the preseason, but not when he got to start in the regular season?

There's a huge difference between facing third string defenses in the preseason and facing first team defenses in the regular season; if I remember correctly Ryan Finley played Pittsburgh and Baltimore in the regular season whose defenses were excellent in 2019.

[*jason*]

(04-03-2020, 02:28 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: There's a huge difference between facing third string defenses in the preseason and facing first team defenses in the regular season; if I remember correctly Ryan Finley played Pittsburgh and Baltimore in the regular season whose defenses were excellent in 2019.

And he dinked and dunked all preseason. The only ones calling for Finley to be the starter are the ones who hate Andy Dalton.

[*jason*]

(04-03-2020, 12:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Accountability does not mean "You made a mistake, so you lose your job.". Accountability is recognizing failings and working to fix them.  For example, they obviously recognize that they failed in FA last year, so they took a drastically different approach this year.

How about when you repeatedly make mistakes? The entire 2015 draft; mistake. John Ross; mistake. Price and Jefferson; mistakes... I think most organizations would can whoever is making those calls.

[McC]

(04-03-2020, 02:48 PM)jason Wrote: How about when you repeatedly make mistakes? The entire 2015 draft; mistake. John Ross; mistake. Price and Jefferson; mistakes... I think most organizations would can whoever is making those calls.

Aren't those people already canned?  Always got the impression that it was coaches who really made the decisions on draft day.

[*jason*]

(04-03-2020, 02:56 PM)McC Wrote: Aren't those people already canned?  Always got the impression that it was coaches who really made the decisions on draft day.

Maybe... I'm confused as to what Duke Tobin does around there then.

[McC]

(04-03-2020, 02:59 PM)jason Wrote: Maybe... I'm confused as to what Duke Tobin does around there then.

Good question.  If the coaches are scouting college players, it kinda stands to reason that those coaches are doing the deciding.  But you hear a lot of conflicting stories so how can anybody really know?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(04-03-2020, 02:42 PM)jason Wrote: And he dinked and dunked all preseason. The only ones calling for Finley to be the starter are the ones who hate Andy Dalton.

...and if dinking and dunking is all the defense gives you that's fine.  Dink and dunk!  Trying to force the ball downfield into tight coverage is what gets quarterbacks in trouble.  For all I know Ryan Finley may have a bright future in the NFL somewhere and I hope he does.  With the right coaching and correct development he might be good; a lot of natural skills are obviously there already even if admittedly those skills are still raw.

Now, Jason, for the other item you mentioned, namely the red-headed elephant in the room:  Andy Dalton and the feelings he generates among our fan base.  I'm well aware there are those who hate his guts and others who merely have a strong distaste for his internal organs.  What surprised me are those who rooted against the Cincinnati Bengals simply to get rid of Dalton.  I cannot root against the Bengals for any reason ever.  

Andy Dalton was a terrific quarterback and a fierce competitor.  Only a few quarterbacks in NFL history have led a team to the playoffs five consecutive times and between 2011 and 2015 he was among the best in the league.  The past four seasons have been frustrating for all of us and yes, for Andy Dalton too.  Yes, his game has deteriorated from where it was during his first five years with the Bengals but letting Marvin Jones and Mohamed Sanu leave for other teams certainly didn't help.

It's time to move on from Andy Dalton but you'll never hear me say a bad word about him.  He bled orange and black for nine seasons.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-03-2020, 12:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Accountability does not mean "You made a mistake, so you lose your job.". Accountability is recognizing failings and working to fix them.  For example, they obviously recognize that they failed in FA last year, so they took a drastically different approach this year.

Hit the nail on the head here Whatever.

We will now be able to judge Taylor better now that it is becoming more his team and not Marvin's.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(04-03-2020, 03:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hit the nail on the head here Whatever.

We will now be able to judge Taylor better now that it is becoming more his team and not Marvin's.

That's an outstanding point as usual but, speaking of Marvin Lewis, I think we got spoiled by his immediate success compared to what we saw last year with Zac Taylor.  Zac may well turn out to be a better head coach than Marvin but Marvin's first year was sensational.  That was a culture change of Old Testament proportions.  Maybe, just maybe, Zac Taylor has a longer term strategy to get the Bengals over the playoff winless streak hump.

[bengals1969]

(04-02-2020, 08:45 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah... Still need to see how the draft plays out on offense, but we know AJ is a game changer for the entire unit when he's right. I know they didn't exactly beat world-beaters, but it's easy to forget the Bengals were leading division in October of 2018... I know that horrible defense bailed them outta one game, but still. They've always hovered around .500 at worst when AJ Green is available.

The Bengals pleasantly shocked the fan base and most posting here with their free agency. But their moves all made perfect sense.

For the draft what makes perfect sense? Starting LB, LG, RT and WR plus projects at RG. How to do it? Lots of trades

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2020, 10:40 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That's an outstanding point as usual but, speaking of Marvin Lewis, I think we got spoiled by his immediate success compared to what we saw last year with Zac Taylor.  Zac may well turn out to be a better head coach than Marvin but Marvin's first year was sensational.  That was a culture change of Old Testament proportions.  Maybe, just maybe, Zac Taylor has a longer term strategy to get the Bengals over the playoff winless streak hump.

Great point as well. I think this Offseason shows Taylor and company have a plan. I sure haven't seen a FA like this ever.

Love all the pick ups and we can get the Offense up to par in the Draft and have the first pick in every round. Taylor couldn't
of had a better Offseason to build his team and continue to build a strategy. What better way to start then getting the Defense
stacked and then starting off the Draft with Smokin' Joe Burrow. Gonna be good times ahead.

[JerseyDD09]

(04-03-2020, 01:38 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I didn't say that it was all ZT, but Tobin, Taylor, Callahan, and Anarumo collectively had arguably the worst offseason+season in Bengals history... and all 4 still have their jobs.

You can't call that a culture of accountability when there is none. That's not even touching the topic of Mike Brown.

Taylor's team also didn't bring in Preston Brown. But, after a year of having an ankle injury, and coming so late to the party, they didn't have the time to bring in outside FA's and resorted to resigning their own.

Now, they've started that roster turnover. So far, they'll have 5 new starters on Defense, and 3 new starters (so far) on offense with AJ, Jonah, and Xavier at guard. The roster will continue the turnover with at least 7 in the draft and 10-13 new college and NFL cuts.

It's a roster in flux right now....Lastly, it takes 3 years minimum for a team to have complete roster turnover and become "Taylor's Team".
Just look at SF and their 3 year turnaround with Shanahan and Lynch. They went from 4-12 in year #2 to the Superbowl in year 3. Which is still unheard of really. But, that team wasn't fully theirs until last years roster.

I am a minority on here with Zac's play calling. For one, he may call the games, but if you listen to what he and Callahan have said when interviewed, they make the game plan up together. Then, on game day, Callahan still gives his input on play calls.
Also, Taylor didn't have the luxury that almost every NFL Offensive Coordinator had last year, and that's an NFL starting quality Left Tackle, or a #1 WR.
He admittedly said he was limited in his play calling b/c of the protection schemes they were limited to.
I'll give him a mulligan for last year and see where they go this year. If they jump to the middle of the pack or better, I'll be satisfied with that in year #2. But, you also have to remember that even the best QB's of all time in their rookie years didn't have the best numbers. We can look at several rookies over the years even such as Peyton Manning.

[Joelist]

Let's also remember that not only have we had injuries messing up the offense the last three seasons but really since Hue Jackson left we have not had a consistent offensive system in place or a good playcaller. Zampese was a disaster and while Lazor got a gold star for getting rid of the Piano Man he also did not have a coherent philosophy on offense.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2020, 05:14 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Taylor's team also didn't bring in Preston Brown. But, after a year of having an ankle injury, and coming so late to the party, they didn't have the time to bring in outside FA's and resorted to resigning their own.

Now, they've started that roster turnover. So far, they'll have 5 new starters on Defense, and 3 new starters (so far) on offense with AJ, Jonah, and Xavier at guard. The roster will continue the turnover with at least 7 in the draft and 10-13 new college and NFL cuts.

It's a roster in flux right now....Lastly, it takes 3 years minimum for a team to have complete roster turnover and become "Taylor's Team".
Just look at SF and their 3 year turnaround with Shanahan and Lynch. They went from 4-12 in year #2 to the Superbowl in year 3. Which is still unheard of really. But, that team wasn't fully theirs until last years roster.

I am a minority on here with Zac's play calling. For one, he may call the games, but if you listen to what he and Callahan have said when interviewed, they make the game plan up together. Then, on game day, Callahan still gives his input on play calls.
Also, Taylor didn't have the luxury that almost every NFL Offensive Coordinator had last year, and that's an NFL starting quality Left Tackle, or a #1 WR.
He admittedly said he was limited in his play calling b/c of the protection schemes they were limited to.
I'll give him a mulligan for last year and see where they go this year. If they jump to the middle of the pack or better, I'll be satisfied with that in year #2. But, you also have to remember that even the best QB's of all time in their rookie years didn't have the best numbers. We can look at several rookies over the years even such as Peyton Manning.

Nice post Jersey, Zac and company hardly had an Offseason last year. He wasn't set up for success that is for damn sure.

The injuries to Jonah, AJ, Glenn and Ross certainly didn't help.

(04-05-2020, 09:25 PM)Joelist Wrote: Let's also remember that not only have we had injuries messing up the offense the last three seasons but really since Hue Jackson left we have not had a consistent offensive system in place or a good playcaller. Zampese was a disaster and while Lazor got a gold star for getting rid of the Piano Man he also did not have a coherent philosophy on offense.

All true, hope the offensive game plan starts to come around with a full Offseason and a good QB.

[*jason*]

(04-06-2020, 03:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post Jersey, Zac and company hardly had an Offseason last year. He wasn't set up for success that is for damn sure.

The injuries to Jonah, AJ, Glenn and Ross certainly didn't help.



All true, hope the offensive game plan starts to come around with a full Offseason and a good QB.

Mike Tomlin laughs at those excuses...