Joe Mixon May Hold Out

[Kingslayer]

(04-15-2020, 06:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You do realize that would make Mixon the 6th highest paid RB in the league by average salary (5th if you don't include Henry on his franchise tag) and depending on what McCaffrey got, would be the 3rd or 4th highest amount of guaranteed money for a RB in the league, right?

As I said, that is the max I would offer him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-15-2020, 10:12 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Unless he wants huge money like McCaffrey, I think they need to keep him. He's the stud on our offense and is a proven threat. Why take the risk at trying to find another RB who may fail just to save a few bucks? He's young still, so a 5-year contract is not terrible. He will still be under 30 when it expires. Let's not forget, he's had a crappy offensive line blocking for him his whole career and played most of his career without AJ Green taking the focus off of him.

This team gets weaker the second Mixon leaves.

So true, what happens if Mixon is used correctly and in the passing game like McCaffery was last season and the way Joe 
Burrow used Edwards-Helaire last season? Could blow up the league in this area the same way and if we sign him to a more
team friendly contract than McCaffery cause of not having as much of production it could certainly happen with Joe's talent.

(04-15-2020, 10:12 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Back in the old days when RBs went high Jonathan Taylor would have been a top 5 pick. We can probably get him at 33.

Don’t be a pain in the ass and get replaced Mixon.

Having said that. An extension would have to be team friendly. We bit the bullet and drafted the guy with video of his giant red flag. And we would be paying him a year early. I would gladly give him a team friendly fair extension.

Mixon, you have a chance to be great. Don't blow it right when you are getting the best QB to come out of college that likes to
throw to the RB. Mixon's very red flag and his lack of TD's last year should make him think more for team friendly deal and his
entire career than going the way of the Gurley's and even McCaffery's who may never win a ring.

With Burrow it is very possible for Mixon to have the best season of his life if all is healthy and we improve.

[samhain]

I think it's a bad move for him to hold out. He's a terrific player, but he's replaceable if breaking the bank is what it takes to keep him.

He'd be better off playing out 2020, betting on himself. I think he's capable of a monster year if he's healthy and has a better team around him. IMO not playing will hurt more than it will help.

I also have to think that the team should expect some gratitude from him when negotiations start. Mixon was as radioactive as it gets when he came out of Oklahoma, and the Bengals may have been the only thing saving him from a free fall in the 2017 draft. I'm not saying he should play for a huge discount, but it would seem a bit disrespectful for him to try and bleed them dry and sit out for every penny.

It also seems like a tactical mistake to suggest that you might hold out a week before the draft. The team could just give him the finger and draft Edwards-Helaire in the 2nd or 3rd if they really wanted to dig in their heels. I know nobody wants to draft a RB early, but it might not be the dumbest idea if they think he's not on board. They're a year or 2 away from contending, either way, so they can be a bit patient. Losing Mixon in 2020 likely won't cost them a Lombardi.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-15-2020, 08:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am too, what you say here is true. Have to admit that teams with a great O-line do better running the ball than teams with a 
great RB. Mixon needs to learn how to finish better like Derrick Henry does and score TD's and then he could ask for a bigger 
contract. Mixon fits what Burrow needs, but so does Gio and Traveon and Rodney when they are healthy.

Just don't want to overpay for a RB like the Rams did with Gurley. Hope Joe takes a team friendly deal.

Really like Mixon, always have as a Bengal. Love his heart. He plays the game with a passion which is what we need.

But if Joe wants to hold out I wouldn't mind keeping Burrow comfortable with his teammate. Would be an early pick though.

I understand but for every Gurley  look at what players like Sammy Watkins and Jarvis Landry have been getting paid...   It seems RB's is the press when they want more $$ because there are less of them but WRs go under the radar with some large contracts themselves

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-15-2020, 09:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Damn coaches never use Mixon like McCaffrey, drives me nuts.  

Mixon has great hands too BTW and is great after the catch.

I just don't think Mixon has that second level burst to take it to the house.

Mixon has never had a 20+ yd TD before in 801 touches.
McCaffrey had 5 last year alone, with 4 of the 5 being 40+ yards.

You either have it, or you don't. It could be vision, it could be speed. Either way, over 800 touches without it happening is significant.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I’m a big Mixon fan, but he ain’t no McCaffrey...

Can’t pay him like that.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-15-2020, 05:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Top 5 Paid RBs 2019 Team Records:
1. Ezekiel Elliott - Cowboys - 8-8
2. Todd Gurley - Rams - 9-7
3. Le'Veon Bell - Jets - 7-9
4. David Johnson - Cardinals - 5-10-1
5. Devonta Freeman - Falcons - 7-9
(0 Playoff Teams)

In fact, you have to go all the way down to 10th to find a RB who actually played in 2019 for a playoff team with Duke Johnson being a backup for the Texans. Even that's a misleading ranking since he's 10th because of the contract the Browns gave him, but they paid the $3m signing bonus already, so the Texans actually got him for roughly 3yr/$12.2m.
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RB is just a terrible spot to dedicate good money in a second contract to. 

Top three rushing teams in 2019 all made the playoffs... and 7 of the 10 teams that made the playoffs were in the top ten in rushing... I think that trend is going to continue and yes some of those teams have some split backs etc.. but Mixon we deemed last year as the bell cow... we know what we have.. and with the trend I would pay him and lets start listing some top WRS with losing teams:  Top 3 WRs did not make the playoffs last year.. I believe six of the nine highest paid WRs last year have not made the playoffs the last two years:  And many of those players are on 2nd year contracts also....

[TecmoBengals]

How about we trade Mixon for a first rounder next week?

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-15-2020, 09:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like your take Bengalstripes18 as usual. Just don't want to break the bank on him and don't want him holding out.

No one does. Mixon is special, always thought so even before we drafted him. Want him here but at the right price.

Mixon needs to look at his numbers, namely TD's from last year and go "I can do much better especially with Burrow here."

I don't think he will regret it if he does this.

Thanks, I like your take as well. 

I'd be fine with overpaying him a little bit. Definitely not McCaffrey numbers--but somewhere in between his value and that of the top 2 backs. 

I think 12 mil per year is fair. Yeah, he's probably only worth 10 mil right now...but seeing as he'll likely be worth 15 mil in a year once they get this offense going, we'll have saved some money. It's also less likely he tries to force a new contract in 2 years time if he's only underpaid by a couple mil. After 3 years we draft a back and let him hit free agency/cash in for a slightly bigger pay day. 

This of course assumes he stays healthy. As I've said before, I think he is more durable than the majority of running backs. I think we have a good supporting cast to lighten his load. But say he does get injured in a couple years, we still have options. If they front-load the contract the first 3 years, then we could likely move on if he gets injured in year 3. He just needs to stay healthy the first 2 years, but obviously you'd like to see him healthy all 4, and get paid in free agency when we part ways.

Overall it just makes sense to spend the money and give Burrow all the weapons we can. Take advantage of his rookie salary while we can. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-15-2020, 11:00 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Top three rushing teams in 2019 all made the playoffs... and 7 of the 10 teams that made the playoffs were in the top ten in rushing... I think that trend is going to continue and yes some of those teams have some split backs etc.. but Mixon we deemed last year as the bell cow... we know what we have.. and with the trend I would pay him and lets start listing some top WRS with losing teams:  Top 3 WRs did not make the playoffs last year.. I believe six of the nine highest paid WRs last year have not made the playoffs the last two years:  And many of those players are on 2nd year contracts also....

Top rushers for those teams...

Ravens: $5m/yr RB vet & UDFA on a rookie contract
49ers: UDFA on a $2.9m/yr deal & UDFA on a rookie contract
Titans: 2nd round pick on a rookie contract & RB vet on a 1yr/$1.15m deal


None of them had either of their top two rushers in 2019 making more than $5m/yr. Three of them were still on rookie deals, and three of them were UDFAs.


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As for WRs, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to score a point on that one. I have openly been a person who didn't want to bring AJ Green back due to the money/injury risk. I was on team sign an okay one in FA and then use a 2nd on a WR or TE.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-15-2020, 11:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Top rushers for those teams...

Ravens: $5m/yr RB vet & UDFA on a rookie contract
49ers: UDFA on a $2.9m/yr deal & UDFA on a rookie contract
Titans: 2nd round pick on a rookie contract & RB vet on a 1yr/$1.15m deal


None of them had either of their top two rushers in 2019 making more than $5m/yr. Three of them were still on rookie deals, and three of them were UDFAs.


- - - - - - - - - - - - -

As for WRs, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to score a point on that one. I have openly been a person who didn't want to bring AJ Green back due to the money/injury risk. I was on team sign an okay one in FA and then use a 2nd on a WR or TE.

Well I just thought I would balance it since you totally left out another high paid group (i can;t assume what you think about WR if i don;t know it but wanted to educate those that maybe did not realize that paided group and lack of production).. and maybe you missed my point was less about $$ but about a trend that has been coming the last couple years.. Running the ball has trended up.. and Mixon has produced with two bad years of teams and he is a very proven back.. I don;t want to see us take a step back at a crucial time with the team.. timing is as important as salary...  Lets work a compromise pay the man more and keep on a positive trend 

Finally I will give you what 49ers have and Ravens at RB  have now and still take Mixon over the next few years.. 49ers are going to have to start to pay their RBs if they keep them for a few years.. Ravens will be looking for RBs next couple years and finally Titans have 10 million on Henry this year.. lets see what happens

[lone bengal]

I think every fan would agree the Bengals are a better team with Joe Mixon playing this season. The question you have to ask yourself is signing Mixon good for the team in the long term. Down the road Mixon's big contract might prevent the team from resigning good players who play more important positions, for example like when Sam Hubbards , Jessie Bates , Carl Lawsons contracts are up or if they want to extend William Jackson after this season. I personally don't like paying running backs because I don't value the position. You can't pay everybody sometimes you have to make the smart business decision. Running backs have a short shelf life and good backs can be found in late rounds. You can't call the Bengals cheap either if they don't resign Joe Mixon because they spent a ton of money in free agency.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-15-2020, 10:49 PM)samhain Wrote: I think it's a bad move for him to hold out. He's a terrific player, but he's replaceable if breaking the bank is what it takes to keep him.

He'd be better off playing out 2020, betting on himself. I think he's capable of a monster year if he's healthy and has a better team around him. IMO not playing will hurt more than it will help.

I also have to think that the team should expect some gratitude from him when negotiations start. Mixon was as radioactive as it gets when he came out of Oklahoma, and the Bengals may have been the only thing saving him from a free fall in the 2017 draft. I'm not saying he should play for a huge discount, but it would seem a bit disrespectful for him to try and bleed them dry and sit out for every penny.

It also seems like a tactical mistake to suggest that you might hold out a week before the draft. The team could just give him the finger and draft Edwards-Helaire in the 2nd or 3rd if they really wanted to dig in their heels. I know nobody wants to draft a RB early, but it might not be the dumbest idea if they think he's not on board. They're a year or 2 away from contending, either way, so they can be a bit patient. Losing Mixon in 2020 likely won't cost them a Lombardi.

Good points. RB was basically an after thought for me when it came to the draft. Now depending on how serious this is it just put RB back into the mix. I am normally a you draft a RB every year guy. But we drafted two last year so I was going to let it play out. Now I know we need to be on the lookout for value that falls at RB in the draft.

Our head coach just watched his old team struggle with releasing a young RB who they gave a giant contract to and put them in a bad financial situation. I don’t think he is going to be easy to convince paying huge money to a RB is worth it.

But I don’t think he would be better betting on himself. Another monster year and he could get a big payday. Or if Zeke and Run CMC struggle or if Mixon gets banged up he is looking at even more damage to his value. I would bet we are willing to give him a team friendly pay raise with a handsome sized guarantee. It won’t make him the highest paid RB. But it would set his family up for life and allow him to be a key piece on an up and coming contender for years to come.

[BURROWorBUST]

(04-15-2020, 09:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: McCaffrey: 2018 2nd Team All-Pro, 2019 1st Team All-Pro, 2019 Pro Bowler
Mixon:

McCaffrey is like putting Wes Welker's pass catching on top of a Top-3 RB. He has 303 catches in 3 years, on top of his rushing duties. He'd have an even more absurd career so far if he didn't have Newton pulling away rushing yards and TDs. It's not a coincidence that the year Newton is out, McCaffrey has the best year of his career so far including more than doubling his rushing TD total from the previous year.

Almost put up a 1400/1000 season, and held up for over 400 touches in 2019. Hasn't missed a game in his career.

McCaffrey is one of the few RBs I wouldn't mind paying because even if he loses a step as a RB, you know he can still be converted into a 100+ catch possession WR.

Would McCaffery have those numbers if he played for us? 

I don't say that to rebut your argument. Point well made. Based on productivity, Mixon isn't in the same stratosphere. I hope he doesn't expect to get paid THAT much, but I hope he gets the extension. 

[Gamma Ray Tan]

I look for the Bengals to Draft Ke’Shawn Vaughn out of Vandy in the 4th-5th round. I’d be good with that, preferably in the 5th.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-16-2020, 12:22 AM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: I look for the Bengals to Draft Ke’Shawn Vaughn out of Vandy in the 4th-5th round. I’d be good with that, preferably in the 5th.

That does not fix Mixon issue.. a  college back that last to 4 or 5 round already assume not ready for prime time.. he will get few Carrie's over next 2 years to prove he can replace Mixon.

[Murdock2420]

I may be in the minority here, but it is hard to fault Mixon. The career length of most RBs is not very long, and he has first round talent on a 2nd round contract due to his assualt.

While here however, he has been no problem off the field at all and has run hard and had really good numbers on some bad teams. He is a talent and a weapon and there is no reason not to extend him, especially if you have Dalton coming off the books and a rookie QB contract for 5 years.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-16-2020, 03:40 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I may be in the minority here, but it is hard to fault Mixon. The career length of most RBs is not very long, and he has first round talent on a 2nd round contract due to his assualt.

While here however, he has been no problem off the field at all and has run hard and had really good numbers on some bad teams. He is a talent and a weapon and there is no reason not to extend him, especially if you have Dalton coming off the books and a rookie QB contract for 5 years.

I’m sure they’re very interested in extending him. The problem is likely that he wants too much.

[JWW1971]

Sorry I haven't read through all the comments but first of all, Has Joe actually said this or is this just a reporter coming out with a story that he THINKS might happen?

I personally would give Joe a new deal as he is a very good RB and I would hate to see him going to another team before we see what he could do here when we fix the O-Line.

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-16-2020, 04:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m sure they’re very interested in extending him. The problem is likely that he wants too much.

That's what I'm afraid of as well. If they can extend him at like 8-10 million per, which would put him well into the top 5 or so in the league I'd say do it.

If he's wanting crazy Zeke, Mcaf money forget it